I believe Nottingham is more neutral that S-05?

I know it's all been discussed before, but I have pretty much been brewing with these two strains exclusively for the past year or so (100 gallons of beer?) and it seems time and time again whether I'm using washed yeast or a new packet, Nottingham always produces a "cleaner" beer when pitched into the same beer and fermented at the same temp (62*F).

Have any of you guys noticed this?

I rarely use notty BUT I too have come to realize that US-05 isn't totally "clean" either.

I did 3 home roasted grain experiments where I made basically 3 smashes using 4 pounds of 2-row and 1 pound of 2 row that I roasted/toasted in one of 3 different ways, Dry toasting on a pan, wet toasting (soaked in water then toasted) and soaked in sugar/water then toasted.

I made 3, 2.5 gallon batches with a balanced IBU/OG, and pitched 1/2 pack of 05 in each.

It turned out that the roasting on all three was nearly non-existent, so I was left with 3 really simple and nice session pale ales. The odd thing was that since there is no grain character, the beers are still mighty tasty, and have nearly a withbeer like flavor to them. I almost thhough I mislabled my wit with hoegaarden yeast with these beers, but they indeed were the 05 beers.

There is almost a lemony/peppery quality to them. It's subtle...but the beers are definitely NOT as neutral as I think they would have been with the 05.

I did a side by side fermentation with a split 8 gallon batch of Ed Wort's Haus Pale. Notty in one and US-05 in the other. At first, I thought the Notty produced a slightly "fruitier" beer after three weeks or so in the bottles. I just had my last US-05 last night and have two Nottys left. In the end, I think they both finished pretty clean. While not objective at all, I preferred the US-05. Though I'd be hard pressed to tell you why.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that Notty's flavor profile depends heavily on the temperature it's fermented at. 60-62 results in a clean beer while 68-70 brings out those english notes....

Could be. I should have mentioned my batch was without any temp control, so it hovered around 70ish.

JetSmooth said:

I did a side by side fermentation with a split 8 gallon batch of Ed Wort's Haus Pale. Notty in one and US-05 in the other. At first, I thought the Notty produced a slightly "fruitier" beer after three weeks or so in the bottles. I just had my last US-05 last night and have two Nottys left. In the end, I think they both finished pretty clean. While not objective at all, I preferred the US-05. Though I'd be hard pressed to tell you why.

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Fruity...that's a good way to describe the pale ales I made.

HickoryMike said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that Notty's flavor profile depends heavily on the temperature it's fermented at. 60-62 results in a clean beer while 68-70 brings out those english notes....

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Temp is going to affect 05 or any yeast as well. So you're not too far off on that. I can't recall the temps I fermented those three beers at but they were all in water baths during that time. So they were cooler than my ambient. Probably in the low to mid 60's.

I dont know what it is about Notty for me, but I really dont care for it at all. Every beer Ive made with Notty always seems to have this weird off flavour thats common to all of them. Maybe its just me..

What do folks actually mean when they refer to a yeast or a beer being "clean". Seems to be a lot of variability on the interpretation of this from the various threads I read.

Naked_Eskimo said:

What do folks actually mean when they refer to a yeast or a beer being "clean". Seems to be a lot of variability on the interpretation of this from the various threads I read.

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The definition is somewhat like this from a whitelabs listing.

Produces beers with a clean neutral finish allowing malt and hop character to dominate.

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You shouldn't get phenolics or other flavor characteristics (good or bad) from it. As opposed to, for example, some Belgians that leave a distinct peppery-ness. Or an English which produces a "bready" one.

Thanks Revvy!

Pivot said:

I dont know what it is about Notty for me, but I really dont care for it at all. Every beer Ive made with Notty always seems to have this weird off flavour thats common to all of them. Maybe its just me..

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You're not alone, I get a tongue sucking astringent dryness from nottingham that only I seem to taste. It's like licking the dry Macaroni and Cheese powder from the packet that sucks all the moisture from you tongue and then leaves a powdery dryness in the throat.

For US05 I found out after the fact that it PUKES out peachy/clove esters at 58ish that over power any beer imaginable.

SwampassJ said:

For US05 I found out after the fact that it PUKES out peachy/clove esters at 58ish that over power any beer imaginable.

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Not sure if I've ever tasted any of those, but maybe I'll do a 1 gallon test batch and check that out.

It's kinda funny how all of us have different opinions on which is better and often times we are the only ones who taste it in our beers. Perhaps we have a better trained beer palate than our friends/family, but I'm not sure. Keep the conversation going.

I have made some Centennial Blonde with Notty before and it's always been ok as long at I keep the temps where they should be.

I think the only time I've used S-05 was in a Stout, so some of those flavors may be fairly hidden.

I DO like the very firm cake at the bottom of a Notty fermenter though!

US-05 is very clean, for an ale yeast, but you have to ferment it COOL. Even at 59*F or so, it still goes like gangbusters. I have NEVER had issues with US-05 that can be linked to the yeast.

Notty...is hit or miss. It is definitely not as clean, it produces a "yeast" as in bread yeast taste. For some styles, that is actually kind of nice.

I recently tasted a very green (one week in bottles) cream of three crops just to see how it was coming along. I used nottingham fermented at 62 (although pitched at 80) for this one. Still a little yeast in suspension (of course), but definitely getting there. I asked SWMBO to try it, and she said tastes a bit like hoegarden. So of course I told her she was crazy, no wheat, english yeast...no way. So then I tasted it. There it was, a bit in the background, and I'm sure it will be gone once the beer conditions, but there was a bit of the Belgian flavour.

Thats pretty neat if you ask me. I think that getting to know beers as they change with age is one of my favorite parts of the hobby.

When I use dry it's mostly 05 and mid 60's ferment. Clean as can be, never noticed any peach or other flavors. Notty reports of bad or slow ferments has kept me from using it.

Since I bought a stir plate I have been moving back to liquid for the sake of changing yeast profiles.

Pivot said:

I dont know what it is about Notty for me, but I really dont care for it at all. Every beer Ive made with Notty always seems to have this weird off flavour thats common to all of them. Maybe its just me..

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SwampassJ said:

You're not alone, I get a tongue sucking astringent dryness from nottingham that only I seem to taste. It's like licking the dry Macaroni and Cheese powder from the packet that sucks all the moisture from you tongue and then leaves a powdery dryness in the throat.

For US05 I found out after the fact that it PUKES out peachy/clove esters at 58ish that over power any beer imaginable.

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With help from the forum, I found that Notty was the cause of a bad off-flavor I was getting in almost every beer. It just stands out to me - a funky, weird, skanky taste. US-05 is my yeast of choice now. Super, super clean (to my palette) when running at ~64*F.

pernox said:

With help from the forum, I found that Notty was the cause of a bad off-flavor I was getting in almost every beer. It just stands out to me - a funky, weird, skanky taste. US-05 is my yeast of choice now. Super, super clean (to my palette) when running at ~64*F.

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You still owe me a beer for that thread.

I've used Notty in an IPA and US-05 in a bock. Both fermented at room temp, about 70 degrees. Both were good beer, with no off flavor.