what is going on? porter down to 1.009?

I brewed this porter on Jan 2:

7.5lb 2-row
3.5lb munich
0.5lb each chocolate, c60L, black patent

mashed at 154F for 75 minutes. 2 batch sparges with 180F water. 1.055 OG.

had a 1L starter of WLP001 that I decanted and pitched.

next morning there was a 1/4" krausen (see this thread for pics) which never got bigger. at day 4, krausen fell completely. So day 5 i took a reading, 1.010. Ok, i guess its done? Day 6 krausen re-formed to 1/4". Day 7 took another reading, 1.009.

What is going on? How is this going so low? Temps were 66-68 during fermentation, now its around 65 (all brewmometer readings).

Both hydro samples tasted pretty good. Can I add maltodextrine then I rack to keg? Procedure same as bottling sugar (boil in water)?

thanks!

Not always the case, but its not a good sign when fermentation re-starts again in a beer that should be finished... You could have an infection.

However before jumping to conclusions do this first:

Check your Hydrometer and make sure it is calibrated correctly.

hydro is calibrated.

this better not have an infection. this is a re-brew of an infected beer....

What is your sanitation procedure? I noticed you were fermenting in a glass carboy, so the possibility of scratches where bacteria could reside is pretty low, but not unheard of...

If it tasted good it may not be infected. As for the spontaneous secondary fermentation, I'm not sure...did you handle the carboy in any way to shake up the cake? If so, that may have woken your yeast up. I have had similar attenuation % using WLP001, the 75 minute mash probably contributed to getting a lower FG as well. Just trying to be optimistic ...

I would be getting nervous about an infection. Porter, WPL001 and a 154F mash doesn't equal 83% attenuation. Although some sources say not to use Campden in beer, others do. I've used it on occasion, wish I'd given my 2005 barley wine a hit, but it went from good to bad rather quickly.

For what it's worth, I had a bunch of porters and stout that were leftovers from a competition and at 18 months, most of them gushered.

i did rouse a bit when i took the reading on day 4. had a hard time getting my blow-off tube off (not like I needed it).

this yeast also acted very weird in the starter, except the opposite. it was slow to ferment, and didn't give the biggest cake.

i don't know what the issue is with porters. I've made 5 brews so far (including this), and 3 were great, and these 2 I'm having issues.

Sanitation is just letting starsan solution soak in the carboy, then 15 min before racking i dump it out and let it sit on the carboy dryer. I have my racking cane/hose sitting in starsan until i rack, and i actually have the hose full of starstan to start the siphon.

The only hiccup that came about with this brew was cooling time. I left it outside and it took a good 2 hours to cool down.

David 42, I wasn't saying the 154 F mash lead to a lower FG. The combination of a high attenuating yeast like WLP001 and a slightly longer than average rest may have resulted in the lower than anticipated FG.


If it ends up not being an infection, I would guess your yeast woke up when you disturbed the carboy.

this is a re-brew of an infected beer....

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Are you re-using any of the equipment from the infected batch? How long have you been using star-stan?

Have you had issues w/ overly attenuated beers in the past? I only ask because I had the same problem until I finally tested my thermometer (it was reading 4-5F high).

no. well...yes, actually. racking cane + hose. but i brewed another beer in-between, using that cane and hose, and it's not infected. lacto-porter was fermented in a plastic bucket. this is in my glass carboy.

My pale ale partial mash finished at 10 from 48 (76%). my extract christmas went from 61 to 11 (81% - 7lb golden light dme). and I had a extract bitter go from 33 to 6 (81%). the previous brew of this recipe that got lacto went from 50 to 11.

i remember checking the calibration on my thermometer, and I thought it was pretty close. I'll check again.

Can't remember if you've stated this elsewhere, but perhaps your mash has spots of different temperature. Could be 154 here, 152 there, which then might fall to 150 over time, etc. Although you sparge with 180F water, temperatures may still be low enough during that extended time until boiling that enzymes continue to make a more fermentable wort.

update-

still at 1.009 today (day 9). taste is....good. i think. i donno, my mind's playing tricks on me. i don't have a great sense of taste anyway. on the other infected porter, real sourness didn't present itself until day 23. so i guess we'll wait and see.

i put my thermometer in ice water, it read 33. so, it's pretty accurate.

Also, my OG is an estimate. I lost the siphon and left some wort behind. So, I had to top-off (I'm using bottled water and sprayed my top off water spigot with starsan solution) and I estimated my top-off water. So, it could be closer to 1.050 OG or even below that.

I'll take another sample this weekend.

You aren't boiling your top off water then?

no i'm not. but, it's not sitting long after I open it that it goes into the fermentor.

motobrewer said:

no i'm not. but, it's not sitting long after I open it that it goes into the fermentor.

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Anything that touches your wort/beer post boil needs to be sanitized. Even distilled water has 'bugs' in it.

very interesting. i thought all bottled water was sanitized from the factory.

f**k.

Hermit said:

Anything that touches your wort/beer post boil needs to be sanitized. Even distilled water has 'bugs' in it.

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That's a really paranoid take on things, I don't think that extra work is worth the effort most of the time. I often top up a tiny bit going into the fermenter to get my gravity right, and I just use water straight from the tap. Any bacteria or other things like that will not have a chance to take hold if you're using healthy yeast. The yeast will outcompete them for nutrients.

motobrewer - I wouldn't worry about top-off water being your problem, and I would advise against keeping star-san in tubing and siphon all the time. Just because the foam is safe to mix with beer doesn't mean you want a few tablespoons of it in with everything else. I understand your paranoia, but I don't think it is warranted.

What I'm thinking your problem may come from is either your yeast, or the fact that it took 2 hours to cool. That's some serious lag time, especially since you say you cooled it outside. Did you have the lid on the pot? You should look into either an ice bath in your sink/bathtub, topping off with very cold water, or, ideally, an immersion/wort chiller. Adequate chilling shouldn't take longer than 45 minutes, ideally.

Don't worry too much about boiling off the top off water. As long as it is straight out of the tap and hasn't been sitting around, it should be fine. I have never boiled my top off water. All of my wine kits use tap water and tell me to in the instructions, they have all turned out fine.

You already invested the money in ingredients, you should just finish it and see what happens.

interesting.

i have a wort chiller. i thought that 3F ambient wisconsin weather would chill a pot down in a reasonable amount of time. i was wrong.

I didn't lid the pot.

Oh I understand the weather thing - I'm down here in Milwaukee and quite chilly. There's a small chance that something bad got into your wort when you were chilling. There's also a good chance you just have a dry porter. I'd bottle it and rdwhahb

i put my thermometer in ice water, it read 33. so, it's pretty accurate.

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You're probably fine, but the one bad thermo I had read 33-34F in ice water yet managed to be 4-5F off in the mash temp range. I'd still check it against a known good thermo if you can. If nothing else it'll give you peace of mind.

It's a taylor digital instant read thermometer. I thought I read it was fairly accurate. I don't really have anything to check it against.

What do you use?

also, in my OP I asked about maltodextrine...

anyone have any thoughts on that?

can I add to the keg? should i just boil 6oz in a cup of water or something then add?

thanks.

Gravity held at 1.009

tastes.........EXCELLENT! no sourness, just.....awesome.

I'm still going to add some maltodextrin when I rack.

UPDATE:

so, for kicks i checked my hydro again in distilled water.

it's off by 4 points! I remember checking about a month ago, and it wasn't off.

is it normal for them to get out of cal?? 4 points! that's huge! no wonder I was getting low eff!

When you checked your hydro, did you take note of the temperature? They say "most" of them are calibrated to 60degrees. Yours may not be. I would find out what temperature will give you 1.000 in distilled water and calculate your adjustment from there. As far as the infection goes, I would use your best judgment-you have had an infection before, you know what to look for. If it doesn't smell, taste, look bad, it probably isn't infected.

Congratulations on the porter, I think you'll be fine with the maltodextrin addition as long as you boil it for a bit. You might need to recalibrate your thermometer every so often, I've heard of some thermometers going out of whack quite easily, some saying you should go with a thermocoupler instead.

oldschool- yeah I adjusted for temp using beersmith.

Racked to keg last weekend, and it's definitely not infected. A little green, but very good. Not going to add malto.

Hermit said:

Anything that touches your wort/beer post boil needs to be sanitized. Even distilled water has 'bugs' in it.

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I'm with sonetlumiere85 on this one. All of my first batches were partial-boils as I didn't have a large enough pot. I typically boiled 3-gallons and topped of with just tap water. I didn't have any problems. I'm able to do full-boils now, but I wouldn't be opposed to adding some water at some point to say, adjust final gravities down if they're coming in too high.

to close the loop-

this has been in the keg carbing for 2 weeks. it's awesome. my best beer to date.