Soldering Stainless steel

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The kettles I got were either this, or extremely similar.

This is the solder I used

This is the Flux I am using.



The die is a 1" ID threaded coupler I got from Menards.

I also have some pics... I will try that cold solder technique... and have a few questions on another hole... but I will first add pics for the holes in question.

Here is one of the problem childs...
IMG_4081_zpsf47ce3ee.jpg


Bottom with the tear...
IMG_4084_zps0d0cb615.jpg


View from the inside... uncleaned yet
IMG_4088_zpsf7ef2e8b.jpg



Here is my next issue... the first hole I did was FANTASTIC! except after the solder had reflowed... I moved the pot too quickly causing the solder to run all over... I add more solder and reheated it, but I didn't add more flux.. I believe I caused a bad joint... Can I fix this by adding more flux around the spot and then just reflowing it one more time?

Outside - looks pretty
IMG_4080_zps0dda6ba5.jpg


inside (out of focus, sorry) - you can see it is a rounder bead rather than laying flat
IMG_4086_zps270c7a83.jpg
 
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How big of a hole did you start with? I started with a 7/8" hole and it worked perfect.

What kind of heat source are you using? I didn't get that much discoloration of the stainless or burning of the flux around the joint.
 
I started with a 7/8" hole, but the greenlee punch for some odd ass reason leaves a little cut out on the edge, not a perfect circle :-/ I am a bit disappointed with the performance, all my other greenlee punches are great.. not sure what's wrong with this one...

Also, I think the metal in the pot is simply too thin or brittle to work properly...

I have been doing the cold soldering to fix the joints and they are looking great... just gotta keep going slow I guess.
 
Might a slightly larger receiving die not create such a sharp bend at the dimple and be less prone to cracking?

Some of the other dimples posted here seem more gradual and not as abrupt. As if the outer part against the pot is slightly larger diameter,
 
wilserbrewer said:
Might a slightly larger receiving die not create such a sharp bend at the dimple and be less prone to cracking?

Some of the other dimples posted here seem more gradual and not as abrupt. As if the outer part against the pot is slightly larger diameter,
Click to expand...

Worth a shot!
 
lorglath said:
Also, I think the metal in the pot is simply too thin or brittle to work properly...
Click to expand...

From your description, you have had several problem pulls. Are the tears always nearest to the bottom of the kettle?

If so, could the proximity of the hole to the bottom of the kettle play a part? I imagine that the area closest to the the bend receives more stress during the forming process and may have left the metal more susceptible to tearing.

Just my two cents.

Sorry to hear you are having problems.

Good Luck.
 
Stainless steel has a tendency to work harden when sawing, drilling, filing, etc. Are you punching your 7/8" hole or drilling before drawing? I have had better luck drawing a dimple after drilling rather than punching. There are stresses induced when punching that don't seem to be when drilled with a step drill at a rapid rate.
 
Docbruw said:
How big of a hole did you start with? I started with a 7/8" hole and it worked perfect.

What kind of heat source are you using? I didn't get that much discoloration of the stainless or burning of the flux around the joint.
Click to expand...
I am new to this and was using way too much flux. I have watched some videos now and have been using much less, and heating the kettle more before applying heat to the coupler, which is resulting in much less discoloration. Also, in the pictures I hadn't cleaned the joints yet.

phasevariable said:
From your description, you have had several problem pulls. Are the tears always nearest to the bottom of the kettle?

If so, could the proximity of the hole to the bottom of the kettle play a part? I imagine that the area closest to the the bend receives more stress during the forming process and may have left the metal more susceptible to tearing.

Just my two cents.

Sorry to hear you are having problems.

Good Luck.
Click to expand...
Nope, even when I do my 'water input' holes for the top of the kettle it splits. Tried with the larger coupler, and it still happened... but at the same time I was having another issue with my pulling bolt and nut... so I'm trying again once replaced tonight.

bigtex52 said:
Stainless steel has a tendency to work harden when sawing, drilling, filing, etc. Are you punching your 7/8" hole or drilling before drawing? I have had better luck drawing a dimple after drilling rather than punching. There are stresses induced when punching that don't seem to be when drilled with a step drill at a rapid rate.
Click to expand...
I drill a small pilot hole, then punch to 7/8. I tried using my step bit, but my step bit has worn down in several areas and it's very hard to grow the hole past those areas... again, when I was new to making the holes I didn't realize high pressure low speed was needed... pretty sure I cooked the damn thing (even using cutting oil).
 
Lorglath

I have the same pots and in order to avoid tearing I started with a 15/16 hole. Makes for a smaller dimple but its plenty for soldering.
 
Thanks for all that contributed. I added 4 full couplings between my HLT and MT this week. Showed them off to brew club friends when I brought my stuff out for our club teach a friend homebrew day. Everyone was very impressed.
 
Here's a couple I've done. Turned out great, used PVC coupler, washers, and bolts from stuff I had laying around. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003RWTYPA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 This is actually slightly too big, so i just put a pvc spacer inside the coupler to stop it from going all the way through.

The coupler under the lip required a modified PVC coupler as well, just need to notch it to fit over the lip(so it still sits flat against the pot)

Used http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0015H6JYS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 for solder/flux. Enough solder to cover 6-7 1/2" coupler fittings.

20131004_160038.jpg


20131031_161924.jpg


20131031_161935.jpg
 
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I searched but apparently my search term was too common....

What size reducer should I use to pula hole for a1/4" npt coupler (for my sight glass).

:mug:
 
What do you do to clean everything before your first run? I used flux to clean up most of the discoloration then soapy water... any other steps I should consider?
 
I'm doing some kettle work for a friend. He bought some of the Jarhill super cheap pots off of ebay.

Anyway, I soldered in a single full 1/2" coupling for a ball valve, that went fine. In doing a leak test, the handle rivets were STEADILY leaking through to outside the pot. I used Stay Clean liquid flux and Stay brite silver solder as I have done many times.

I figured I would just solder the rivets in, easy peasy, right? So I did that, and got great looking solder patches, cleaned everything up with flux, alcohol, baking soda then barkeepers friend. Let it dry and leak checked it again. I filled it with cold water.

a half hour later, the areas all over the solder around the rivets and fitting is "gassing" (some bubbles rising but not many) off some white stuff that is slowly falling down the side of the pot. It is like wispy white clouds in the clear, cold water the kettle is filled with.

Any idea what is going on? I have soldered probably 20 fittings with this flux and solder before and I have never had this happen. Help.

Thanks in advance.

I can try to get a picture but it might be tricky shooting into water in my dark basement...

BSD

BSD
 
Just a wild guess, might the handles / rivets be chrome plated steel and not stainless? Might it just be trace amounts of BKF, that is whiteish AFAIK. Perhaps try cleaning the area with PBW, detergent, or Oxiclean, and check again??? Very strange?
 
Just wanted to thank everyone who has added their knowledge and experience to this thread.

Thanks to that, my test joint was perfect except I needed to pull the coupler down a little further.

My next joint was a coupler I pulled halfway through the keggle. Valve goes on the outside and a dip tube on the inside.



image-1852318610.jpg



image-4052032538.jpg
 
So I think I am dealing with plated steel rivets now partially encased by silver solder. I ran it through a night of oxyclean and had large whitish deposits on the rivet heads when I drained it out in the morning. One of the rivets was showing rust. The deposits removed from the rivets with minimal scrubbing with a scrubby sponge.

So.........

Would you solder them into a lake of solder so they are no longer exposed to the inside of the pot?

Would you remove the solder, drill them out, re rivet with stainless rivets and resolder to seal them up?

Hand the pot back and say "good luck with that!"?

Something else?

Any suggestions or opinions are welcome! Thanks in advance.

BSD
 
I guess it depends on how good a friend he is...haha.

If the rivets stood up to a night in oxiclean, then they might be just fine for years where they are only occasionally barely exposed to a mash for an hour and stored dry...

Sometimes if it aint broke don't fool with it!

I did think of pooling some solder over the rivets, if it is not too much work, and he is a good friend, and if you have the time, solder, and gas....???

"Good luck with that!"
 
So I pooled solder over the exposed rivet heads and that appears to have solved my problem! When I work on the next pot in line, also a Jarhill, I'm just gonna replace the rivets before I do anything else to the pot.

Thanks for your advice, guys! I hope somebody learns something from my travails.

BSD
 
It is probably traces of residual flux leaching out. The white clouds you are seeing are precipitating mineral salts from the reaction of the acid flux with your alkaline water.
 
probably true. It is for sure better with the rivets (which were rusting) covered by silver solder though. The second pot of water didn't precipitate anything out at all.

Cheers.

BSD
 
BSD_Glass said:
I hope somebody learns something from my travails.

BSD
Click to expand...

Yep, $19 Chinese Jarhill kettles are not as good as Blichmanns, but at the price point they work pretty darn good.
A pot for every man. Tell your friend he "owes you"
Nice work
 
Has anyone else used the "socket style" puller successfully? I can't get kobalt sockets here and I'm just wondering what the OD would be...compared to the OD of my coupler (the standard 1/2 NPT coupler everyone uses) it is way smaller and looks like I'd have to use quite a bit of force to get the coupler through after the dimple is made...is it standard to have to pull pretty hard with the coupler once the dimple is made? I can't find anywhere in Canada I can find that reducer easily or without paying $20-30 bucks.

EDIT: I got impatient and did it anyways, my dimple came through a bit crooked, the bottom portion barely dimpled at all (I think due to the curvature of the bottom of my keg maybe??). Anyways any thoughts on what to do next? I tried putting a torch on the keg to heat it up and manually bend it but no dice, think I'll have to get it glowing to do that and I don't really want to. Can I just find a way to work the coupling through and then hammer it into a neutral position when its about half through the pot? Realize this is pretty crude and the soldering may not turn out nice and neat in the end like a lot of the examples on here. Thanks!
 
diS said:
You think I couldn't do it with standard propane torch as this one:?

Unfortunately they don't ship outside USA/Canada.
Click to expand...

No, as stated you will need a high temp torch, I believe that material is for brazing, not soldering. The melt point of the solder most are using is only around 500 f, big big difference than 1200.
 
I'd think a propane torch could handle that, might take a while. Propane is common for brazing. Max flame heat for propane is ~1900 on air. A Map Pro(or similar) torch would be better though, and handy to have around anyways. Either way, you need to be careful with stainless around brazing temps as you can pull chromium out(making it not stainless).

Also, try other sellers for the Harris Stay Brite, like Amazon
 
A propane torch may melt that but when you add in a the affect of a huge heatsink like a kettle I doubt it will keep up. I've tried the Stay-silv 56 with MAPP gas to no avail.
 
Has anyone found a cheaper alternative for brazing than Safety-Silv 56. The ebay link above looks a bit scetchy and I dont see any reviews. I realize that the price of silver plays a big role in the price.
 
Guy from local hardware store told me that he can order different types of silver based brazing alloy, depending on silver percentage: 5%, 20%, 30%, 34%... 45%, 55% all cadmium free.

http://www.stella-welding.com/en/category/products/

Which one is best suitable for our needs and what else is important besides %Ag?
Also, on what to pay attention when buying flux?
agghh... so much questions...
 
I believe we want to stay in the higher range of Ag %. Harris recommends there 56% content for food service/stainless steel, but no mention of those uses with the 45% stuff; both are cadmium free.
 
If you're brazing I'd go with the Harris Stay-Silv Black Hi temp flux, you can get 1lb for under $10. It'll last you a lifetime.
 
Just picking up the parts to attempt to install a 2" TC ferrule into my kettles. I was just wondering what everyone else has used?

I'm planning on using this for my dimple tool:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004EHGE3W/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

This for my flux/solder:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0015H6JYS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

What I'm wondering is what tool should I use to cut the initial hole, and what size to get? Knockout punches in that size range look like they're about $120, which seems silly to spend on something I'm going to use 1-2 times. Any thoughts?
 
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