Homebrew hangovers worse than with BMC?

Nobody I have ever known has gotten into homebrewing because it is cheaper. Equipment+ingredients+time=not as cheap as one would think. Granted, even with some overpriced malt extracts you can make a 5 gallon batch of 5%-6% ABV beer that will be tastier than using tons of table sugar. I think the cheapest batch I made was $.61/bottle . All that was 6.6lbs of malt extract, 1lb corn sugar, 2oz of Northern Brewer Hops and 1 packet of dry yeast. The beer was good but not great. If you are just into the higher alcohol content, Ommegang has some higher Alcohol beers for (at least here) $5.50/bottle but they are pretty big bottles, otherwise you can homebrew a strong beer for $.90- $1.10 per bottle and it will be a higher quality than the table sugar beer. But if that is what works for you who am I to judge. I just don't want you to think that you have to use the table sugar. If you look at overall cost of a batch per bottle, it is still quite cheap. There is nothing wrong with using glass, you can pick up a case at a liquor store of returnable bottles for about $1.20/case and the caps can be recycled if you wish. But if just getting drunk quick is the goal, nothing works better than a 3-6 cans of Bud Light, 1 funnel, 3 feet of hose, and a little duct tape. Repeat throughout the evening for a cheap hardcore buzz.

I think what you will find is that almost all homebrewers brew thier own because they love the taste of good beer, and love the process of making the beer. The Alcohol is just a sweet sweet bonus, still a bonus that most of us wouldn't be brewing if it wasn't there I admit. That is why I think so many homebrewers try to push people away from the excessive use of sugar. Not to add that sugar will thin the beer as far as body goes.

[SOAPBOX]
I'm thinking we should end this thread before it gets ugly.

Rowland says his homebrew gives him worse hangovers than commercial. There are a number of reasons why this is probably true, and we have pointed a lot of them out, and have offered suggesitons about how to fix it. Rowland can be in control of whether he wants to remedy the problem, but I don't think it's our position to lecture or preach about his drinking habits.

Is his drinking irresponsible? Well.. Rowland said himself that it was in his first post in this thread, so there is no point in our telling him it's irresponsible. He already knows it.

I admit that I have to laugh at both the "stepping lightly on the earth" argument (processing sugar is more environmentally harmful than making malt extract) as well as the "health issues" argument (you are concerned about consuming unfermented sugar, but have no problem drinking loads of alcohol?)

But... I feel that Rowland might have made these statements as a result of being cornered by people being critical of his beer and his drinking habits. It wasn't fair of us to corner him like that, IMHO.

Rowlands drinking is certainly unhealthy, but he's a big boy that seems to recognize this fact, and we should let it alone.

If he wants our help to fix the quality of his beer, we can offer it, but we should NOT cram it and our personal beliefs about alcohol consumption down his throat.
[/SOAPBOX]

-walker

EDIT: walker is right. I withdraw my post and say that after reading each of his previous posts (including making "healthy" vegemite and a 1 year long primary fermentation) I think that he is not here to get help (or offer it).

JP

rowland said:

I'm not sure what to say to that. Sugar in my opinion is sugar be it malt, dextrose etc. There really is no reason why one sugar is better over the other in beer brewing except one type isn't as fully fermentable as the other.

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Come on rowland...you say you're not trolling, then you make a statement like this.

Imperial Walker said:

[SOAPBOX]

But... I feel that Rowland might have made these statements as a result of being cornered by people being critical of his beer and his drinking habits. It wasn't fair of us to corner him like that, IMHO.

Rowlands drinking is certainly unhealthy, but he's a big boy that seems to recognize this fact, and we should let it alone.

If he wants our help to fix the quality of his beer, we can offer it, but we should NOT cram it and our personal beliefs about alcohol consumption down his throat.
[/SOAPBOX]

-walker

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Yep . . ., and it was probably my comments that first did this . . . sorry .

Imperial Walker said:

But... I feel that Rowland might have made these statements as a result of being cornered by people being critical of his beer and his drinking habits. It wasn't fair of us to corner him like that, IMHO.

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I agreed with you at first, but having gone back and re-read everything, including his recent responses, I think sonvolt was right in the first place.

Not a bad one tho, as trolls go...I'd have to say 8.5 for form and 7 for flame-worthiness.

sonvolt said:

Yep . . ., and it was probably my comments that first did this . . . sorry .

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Not really. I think I mght have been the first person to tell him that he drinks too much, and I probably should not have done this. I'm just as guilty as anybody for being critical. I will give myself 40 lashes with the cat-o-nine tonight.

This thing started because the Lizard asked a question about hangovers. Rowland chimed in with his opinion that HB was worse for hangovers than commercial, and for him, his beer, and his habits... this is probably true.

Most of us agree that Rowland's homebrew and drinking habits are different beasts than our own, and that should be factored into things when weighing his input on the subject, but it probably should have stopped there rather than turn into this.

If Rowland is a troll (I have no opinion of whether he is or not), then we are giving him what he wants.

If Rowland is not a troll, then we are preaching to him.

Either way, WE should probably stop doing what we are doing and let Rowland be, troll or no troll.

-walker

El Pistolero said:

I agreed with you at first, but having gone back and re-read everything, including his recent responses, I think sonvolt was right in the first place.

Not a bad one tho, as trolls go...I'd have to say 8.5 for form and 7 for flame-worthiness.

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LOL.

-walker

Imperial Walker said:

LOL.

-walker

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I give it an B+ . . . at best.

Imperial Walker said:

Either way, WE should probably stop doing what we are doing and let Rowland be, troll or no troll.

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Can't do it...I'm sworn to ferret out trolls wherever they are.

-von Pistolero Helsing

WOW Imperial Walker, Thanks for the nice post. Guys it's my brewing style and my logic, it makes sense to me. It's 3:30am and I'm about to hit the hay here after one more. In my opinion, there is a broad line between making good tasting beer and good tasting alcohol. It really depends on how you drink, I have drank quality beers before but I find them very filling and bloating. When I pour my beer, It fizzes and I can smell the alcohol and I sometimes just stare at it without even drinking it thinking about life and other things. To me the heart of a good beer is the alcohol, the feeling of it going down your throut into your stomach making you feel warm, it still makes my skin tingle and gives me goose bumps. I'm going to try and let it rest at that in this thread, just sharing my personal view on beer. (I'm sure you guys get tanked much more often than what you have been admiting to in this thread)

rowland said:

To me the heart of a good beer is the alcohol

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No, that's the heart of a good Ripple.

rowland said:

WOW Imperial Walker, Thanks for the nice post.

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You're welcome... I guess. I was trying to write up a post that expressed my total view of this whole thing, but I can't really do it without being hypocritical.

I would say that you certainly have a different philosophy about beer and homebrew than most people here.

-walker

El Pistolero said:

Can't do it...I'm sworn to ferret out trolls wherever they are.

-von Pistolero Helsing

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Well, what if I only look like a troll? Can I stay?

:rockin:

barleypopmaker said:

Well, what if I only look like a troll? Can I stay?

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I'm not easily fooled by outward appearence, but should I hastily fire a warning shot into your kneecap, please accept my humble apologies.

Lol... worst Ive had from HB is a bad case of next day beer ****s. Yeast is a laxative, and if you drink A LOT of the trub at the bottom of the bottles you end up with some rather loose turds. HA!

Never had a hangover from HB.

And the older you get the more you appreciate a good dump...or so I've heard. I enjoy several a day...

rowland said:

Is it possible after the beer conditions in the bottle to heat it up to kill the yeast as I feel this is one reason why I get hangovers, live yeast robbing my body of vitamines. Once the yeast is deactivated, I should then get the benifits of the yeasts vitamines.



http://www.foodsubs.com/LeavenYeast.html

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This is BS! Okay, buddy, do you know better than to believe everything you read? This aggravates medical professionals such as myself; people do searches on the internet and take everything they read as fact. Did you know any idiot can post on the internet, make up a bunch of crap, and call it "truth"? Here is something you CAN believe, the source is from the University of Maryland Medical Center, supported by several peer-reviewed professional journals.

"Brewer's yeast is often used as a source of B-complex vitamins and chromium. The B-complex vitamins in brewer's yeast include B1 (thiamine), B2 (riboflavin), B3 (niacin), B5 (pantothenic acid), B6 (pyridoxine), B9 (folic acid), and H (biotin). These vitamins help break down carbohydrates, fats, and proteins, which provide the body with energy. They also support the nervous system, help maintain the muscles used for digestion, and promote the health of skin, hair, eyes, mouth, and liver."

But, you probably know all this and are just trolling, in which case I just encouraged you... ah, well. That's the way it goes.

Hey, I get hangovers when I drink these: MBC, wine, hard stuff HB.

I can relate it to drinking to much or drinking all day in moderate (?) amounts.

The occasional headache from a six-pack I'm narrowing down to the hop-infested IPA's and such.

veggiess said:

This is BS! Okay, buddy, do you know better than to believe everything you read? This aggravates medical professionals such as myself; people do searches on the internet and take everything they read as fact. Did you know any idiot can post on the internet, make up a bunch of crap, and call it "truth"? Here is something you CAN believe, the source is from the University of Maryland Medical Center, supported by several peer-reviewed professional journals.

"Brewer's yeast is often used as a source of B-complex vitamins and chromium. The B-complex vitamins in brewer's yeast include B1 (thiamine), B2 (riboflavin), B3 (niacin), B5 (pantothenic acid), B6 (pyridoxine), B9 (folic acid), and H (biotin). These vitamins help break down carbohydrates, fats, and proteins, which provide the body with energy. They also support the nervous system, help maintain the muscles used for digestion, and promote the health of skin, hair, eyes, mouth, and liver."

But, you probably know all this and are just trolling, in which case I just encouraged you... ah, well. That's the way it goes.

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Can yeast survive in the human digestive tract? I would tend to think it couldn't. With all the acids and enzymes produced wouldn't it be a very hostile environment for yeast. Also, if the yeast could survive wouldn't a lot of CO2 gas be produced as the yeast metabolized the sugars in the stomach and intestines?

veggiess said:

But, you probably know all this and are just trolling, in which case I just encouraged you... ah, well. That's the way it goes.

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4 months later, I doubt he cares much.....

I wouldn't think they could make it past(passed) the stomach acids.

This thread is so last year . . .

the topic never dies though....

Bump^^ yeast live in yer guts as a part of yer natural flora and they got there from eating fruit, breast feeding and drinking beer. Rheumatologist do a test for saccromyiesies cerevisiea in yer blood. no ****.

I was talking with a friend that has a 60-barrel brewery and we were talking about hops, and how hops can contribute to headache. He was making a DIPA and looking to his hops supplier for recommendations and the supplier told him not to use Chinook for a bittering hop as it has a tendency to give people headaches, interesting.

The neighbor gets red faced and sick from hops, even one sip of beer or a piece of a hop pellet.

Walker-san said:

A few comments/questions:

(1) what temp do you ferment your beer at? if it's too high, you are going to create fusel alcohols (longer chains), and these will lead to hangovers.

(2) I'm betting that your homebrew is much higher in alcohol than commercial beer.

(3) the runs are caused by the yeast in the homebrew. yeast is a natural laxative.

(4) if you are drinking 3L of homebrew, that's about 9 (12oz) bottles of beer. Add in the fact that HB is probably higher in alcohol than commercial, and you're getting up toward consuming the same amount of alcohol that would be found in a half case of commercial beer. Why you have a hangover? Because that's a lot of alcohol!

(5) if your HB is higher in alcohol than commercial, then you are literally consuming a higher water-to-alcohol ratio when you drink commercial. This would lessening the effects of the hangover.

(6) the comment about light-colored beers vs dark-colored beers causing different hangover intensities is weird. The color shouldn't make any difference at all, unless you are allergic to roasted barley or something. It is possible that your light-colored beers are also lower in alcohol content than the dark beers? That's the only thing that makes sense to me.

-walker

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I agree and would like to add that steam beers and some poorly pitched home brews have fussel alch. in them. They also contribute to hangovers.

I got a nasty one the other day from bells oberwan and the one before that was Anchor steam. Both of those hurt bad!!!

no headaches here from homebrew.

I'm still a noob, (so maybe that explains it) but I never feel right depleting my stash of quality homebrew to get a strong buzz going. Don't drink enough of it to get a hangover. That's what commerical, store bought beer is for.

Logbuyercab said:

I was talking with a friend that has a 60-barrel brewery and we were talking about hops, and how hops can contribute to headache. He was making a DIPA and looking to his hops supplier for recommendations and the supplier told him not to use Chinook for a bittering hop as it has a tendency to give people headaches, interesting.

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Interesting. I know that I get to feeling a wee bit nastier if I have IPA's all night compared to a porter etc. But, I still luv them IPA's so that's why we have aspirin.

I submit that those only brewing their own high quality beers are doing half a job.

buy 10 lbs of 2 row, 1/2 lb of cara pils, some cheap hops (or use what you have left over) and reuse some yeast. This = 5 gallons of quality drunkeness for like 15 bucks. no way can you buy the same volume of commercial beer for that.

then spend 30 bucks for top of the line, high quality specialty brew ingredients, and savor the outcome of those (sipping beer).

Since we have invested in all the tools and knowledge to make beer, why not put them to use??? 15 bucks divided by 50 bottles is what, like 30 cents a bottle for the liquid? no way you can buy it for that commercially.

I'm half loaded on the 1 high end fantastic munich dunkel and the 2 "cheapo American Ales" I' ve just consumed, so everyone's opinion that differs from mine SUCKS!

LOL just kidding.

to each his own...

Logbuyercab said:

... the supplier told him not to use Chinook for a bittering hop as it has a tendency to give people headaches, interesting. ...

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Man, that stinks... i just used a bunch of Chinook to bitter my everyday pilsener swill with... poop.

Since I am going to drink it anyway I'll report back on the headache factor.

I think the buzz from HB is slightly different then MBC. I can't explain why. It just feels different, better for that matter.

I generally drink my HB in quarts. On my 40th Birthday I drank 7 quarts from 6PM to about midnight. I was really tanked. The next day I felt out of it for most of the day. If i had drank two more I be geared up to party or ready to pass out. I was just feeling pretty tired. No headache.

Many times on Saturday after a days worth of hard work. I'll down a quart and then sand man hits me... an hour later when I wake up I feel like I've been a sleep for 8 hrs. I'm usually groggy until I eat something. I never get a splitting headache as I do from BMC. When I do, I'm usually out at a bar sucking in cigarette smoke or somebody elses smoke. I think that's the major reason for the headache. You take in a lot of carbon monoxide.

Process wise.... Charlie Papazian's book "The Complete Joy of Home Brewing" He talks about the benefits of using a 5 gallon carboy as a primary. He recommends attaching a blow-off so the fusel resins in the foam get blown off. He says you loose some HB but its worth it for the best HB you've ever tasted. The fusel resins are the culprits for headaches (like fusel alcohol). He said the amount is very low so if you don't do it, its no big deal. This is similar to old open method of open primaries and skimming off the foam. He talks about the risk of contamination saying its not worth the risk. I do neither!!!!

Walker is right. The temp is the first thing to fix nothing higher than 73' with ale yeast. This is the primary reason for bad headaches. Too much fusel alcohol is created.

I follow this temp requirement without fail. Maybe too conservatively, but that's me!!!

The neighbor gets red faced and sick from hops, even one sip of beer or a piece of a hop pellet.

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Sounds to me like an allergy.. I have never noticed a headache from using Chinook.. but then I never get headaches unless drinking hard stuff...

The headache is caused by dehydration in the brain.. So drinking water between beers will reduce or eliminate them..
Drinking unregulated **** overseas The corpsman would pop a saline IV in your arm... amazing what a pint of water directly in the vein does for a hangover.