RubberMaid says "NO"!

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Hex

Hex

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I just got off the phone with Rubbermain customer service and they said:

"We definitely DO NOT recommend anyone putting hot water in our water coolers over 120 deg f."

And when I asked what type of plastic are the coolers made out of, they said it is a food grade "other" type.

I then asked if they could provide me with a MSDS sheet for their product, and they said "no" it is a proprietary plastic type.

Contact them yourselves:

Attn: Consumer Service Department
3320 W. Market Street
Fairlawn, Ohio 44333-3306 USA
Please do not ship packages to this address as they can not be received.
Toll-Free: (888) 895-2110
Monday - Friday, 8:30am - 5:00pm Eastern
Hex is online now Report Post
 
hmm plenty of people have been for a long time. It's probably just a liability thing!
 
Old news.

They will not advocate hot liquids in their "coolers" becuase that IS NOT WHAT THEY ARE MARKETED OR DESIGNED FOR.

Next thing you know soup kitchen will use them. It'll be anarchy!
 
We've already debated, or discussed, this topic pretty fully.

I agree that Rubbermaid does NOT recommend their product to be used with hot water. It's a cooler, after all.

I also know that if water over 185 degrees is poured into it, it can warp and/or crack. :drunk:

As to leaching out of the plastics, I've never heard of any research or tests at all to find out if 160 degree mashings will cause any leaching.

It's up to every person to use common sense and go by what they feel is safe. There are a couple of people here on HBT who will not use cooler MLTs just for this reason- and they have either keg MLTs or Blichmann stainless steel MLTs.

I use a cooler for mashing, and feel fine with it. If you don't, definitely don't use one!
 
Hey, if you can't taste plastic its fine...just like my natural gas alarm, it keeps going off saying there is gas in my house, but I can't smell mercaptan so its obviously a false alarm, I haven't blown up yet so whatever right.

Could Rubbermaid leach something at 160 degrees? Maybe, unless some chemist experiments we may never know, but, in the meantime probably millions of gallons have been brewed using a rubbermaid mashtun and I have yet to see the media go panic mode on Rubbermaid beer being as deadly as sharks were trumped up to be a few summers back.
 
And did you know that the senior technical advisor for the National Propane Gas Association, had no idea that people made beer in propane turkey fryers until he was interviewed on Basic Brewing?

And pretty much spoke the party line of propane usage, which most of us pretty much ignore anyway.

Propane Safety and Tips on Basic Brewing Podcast.

And iirc neither did the makers of said Turkey Fryers know how we've coopted their product for our hobby. And said something similar.

Did you ever read the warning labels on a bottle of starsan? And did you also know that the required labelling about contact time is longer than it actually is, that it kills much faster than that but 5-star is required to have that info, but if you listen to the podcast here, he goes into the more effective way to use it. And talks about the FDA rules.

March 29, 2007 - Sanitizing with Bleach and Star San
Charlie Talley from Five Star Chemicals tells us best practices in using household bleach and Star San in sanitizing equipment.

http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrewing/bbr03-29-07.mp3
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It's called "cover your a$$." And it's usually done by lawyers. Warning labels, usage "policies" are often written with oversight by lawyers to cover their a$$e$, or is it a$$et$? ;) People are essentially stupid...and Lawyers are smart enough to cover their clients ass with warnings.....like warning on cruise controls in campers, not to engage them, and get up and go to the bathroom...or other fun things like these...The Darwin Awards


Also Has anyone EVER called a customer service number, and EVER got anything that was more than a canned answer? You don't get much out of the box thinking when calling a 1-800 number, especially if you're going to be connected to someone in India. They are going to read whatever they've been told to read, say whatever they've been told to say.

Bottom line, we've been using them for quite awhile now. And some folks choose not to and mash in kettles....So it's ultimately up to you.
 
Wait. Coolers are not made for hot stuff and propane might burn, explode or gas me?

What's next?

I guess as long as they don't tell me that eating too many fried foods will give me a heart attack, I can live with the other risks.

Oh wait ...
 
Revvy said:
Also Has anyone EVER called a customer service number, and EVER got anything that was more than a canned answer? You don't get much out of the box thinking when calling a 1-800 number, especially if you're going to be connected to someone in India. They are going to read whatever they've been told to read, say whatever they've been told to say.
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I know it's not the topic, but I answer an 800 line and no my answers are not canned. I know I'm not the norm, but don't diss us all. Yes I answer tech support, yes I need the degree I have to do it and have to think. Sprint and ATT aren't the only ones with 800 numbers.
/Rant
 
The lid is marked as #2 hdpe, which well exceeds 120 degrees while maintaining its FDA approval rating.

The inner liner is not marked on the inside. Perhaps it's marked on the outside of the liner (inside the shell)? Anyone have a crapped-out cooler they wish to tear apart to inspect?

The outer liner is marked as #7 (other), but I'm not sure if it's marked as such because the inner liner & outer are of different materials (which they are), or because the outer liner alone doesn't fall into any other category.

Personally, I'd find it odd for the company to use HDPE for the lid and not the liner. I'm of the personal opinion that the liner most likely is HDPE, or perhaps PP (Igloo states their liners are PP), but that's just my guess.

As for some of the responses the OP is receiving - cut him some slack. He went through the trouble of contacting rubbermaid in an effort to determine product safety and is sharing the info w/ you. If it's nothing you want to use - fine. Noone's twisting your arm. Personally I find it informative, since I had assumed the entire inside was HDPE based on the lid designation, and now I'm not so sure.

As for the FDA rating, if the CS agent is correct and the FDA has approved it for use up to 120-degrees, you can pretty much bet their tests showed leaching of chemicals past this point. What we don't know, however, is the duration of contact, the type(s) of foods that possibly interacted w/ the plastic, and a host of other test specifics. We also don't know if the process of brewing beer (action of yeast) might very well trap said chemicals in the biomass of the yeast themselves, creating an essentially clean product.

???????
 
The first few 10-gallon batches I did, my cooler creaked and popped and squealed like a lost kitten. She warped a little but that was it. Since then she’s delivered over 100 batches with no issues.

Now if you’ll excuse me...I need to go comb my tail and trim the cuticle on my 11th toe.
 
I also wonder about the chromium content in water boiled in stainless steel, and if aluminum oxide causes Alzheimer's.
 
Hex said:
I also wonder about the chromium content in water boiled in stainless steel, and if aluminum oxide causes Alzheimer's.
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You're absolutely right to be concerned, and I hope it didn't sound like you are off-base.

Life in today's world is about risk- from ultra high frequency power lines, to plastic food packages, etc. Some of the things we can't help, some we can. I know people that still smoke- even with the knowledge of health risks. We need to make our own decisions about what risks we can live with, and what we're not willing to risk.

We're teasing you a bit about the "tail" stuff, and I hope you know that it's good natured.
 
Hex said:
I also wonder about the chromium content in water boiled in stainless steel, and if aluminum oxide causes Alzheimer's.
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Oh crap, we're all gonna die! :D
 
There is a definite difference between being ridiculous and anal, and caring about long term health risks of certain exposures.

If I didn't give a crap, I would still ferment in water cooler bottles. Free, and just recycle if you don't feel like cleaning it.

Don't forget garden hoses. The amount of lead in hose water is fairly alarming.

If you can avoid something like that fairly easilly, why not?
 
mustangracer said:
Ditto! So....is my igloo mash tun and stainless filter gonna kill me or not?
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Breathing repeatedly and maintaining a heartbeat over a period of 70+ years will eventually kill you. Bank on it.

Beyond that, all bets are off. So get your kettle and mash tun, fire up the burner and get to brewing.
 
Come to think of it, the beer we make and consume can cause liver failure, drunken mishaps, alcohol poisoning, and bad decisions that lead to STD's...perhaps we should be more concerned about the product impacts than the possibility that we might add to the massive amounts of horrible chemicals are bodies are exposed to on a daily basis through air pollution, chemical cleaners, food additives, etc. IMO, you're more likely to cause yourself harm cleaning your garage than making beer in a cooler. But hey, that's just my 2 cents.
 
Alcohol is a poison.

As for some of the responses the OP is receiving - cut him some slack. He went through the trouble of contacting rubbermaid in an effort to determine product safety and is sharing the info w/ you. If it's nothing you want to use - fine. Noone's twisting your arm. Personally I find it informative, since I had assumed the entire inside was HDPE based on the lid designation, and now I'm not so sure.
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QFT +!

As for the FDA rating, if the CS agent is correct and the FDA has approved it for use up to 120-degrees, you can pretty much bet their tests showed leaching of chemicals past this point.
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Or they are worried about scalding liability. Cooler on the floor full of hot liquid and a baby and you have lawsuits.
 
Igloo's site says the same thing. They list just two items that are made for hot liquids. And I didn't actually see either of the two items on their site. So I think Rubbermaid, Igloo and Coleman are all in the same boat.
 
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