Brewtarget 1.2 - Free open source brewing software

eulipion2 said:

Rocketman, is there a minimum screen size setting for the OS X version 1.2.1? I've got a "Hackintosh" netbook with a screen res of 1024x600, and I can't tell if there's anything below the ingredients box, and there's no "resize" box at the bottom right.

Thanks!

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All the windows can be resized. The main window has to be at least a certain size, though I'm not sure exactly what the minimum size actually is since it depends from platform to platform and from window manager to window manager.

Rocketman

THanks a bunch for the updates, they're great The notes feature is excellent, I can now use brewtarget for everything...

If I had one iota of programming knowledge I'd happily help. We really owe you one...

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Cool!

when I save my work by clicking on a small diskette icon and close the program it asks me do I want to save again....

I don't want to be PITA but I think this is easy to fix

Couple questions about the mash tab. I am trying to set up for my equipment and having a couple problems:

1) In the equipment tab, what is the mass of the Mash Tun used for and how do I calculate it for my equipment?

2) In the mash tab, I try to change "batch sparge" to "fly sparge" by changing the name, temp target (slightly) and the time. When I hit the Mash wiz button I have an issue where batch sparge reappears and it sets my fly sparge to a smaller volume. It seems I'm not able to modify the default sparge setup... is that correct?

3) If I add a new step there doesn't seem to be a way to re-order the step. For example, if I add a protein rest to a previously saved single step mash schedule, it seems to add it at the end and I don't see a way to reorder it. This just means I have to go in and retype the steps in. Granted, I don't think most people redesign their mash schedule and setup every batch, but it just added a bit of confusion for me.

Ichthy said:

THanks a bunch for the updates, they're great The notes feature is excellent, I can now use brewtarget for everything...

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Yep, if the next revision includes the refractometer tools and a few fixes I will be ditching Beersmith.

400d said:

when I save my work by clicking on a small diskette icon and close the program it asks me do I want to save again....

I don't want to be PITA but I think this is easy to fix

Click to expand...

I agree.

1) In the equipment tab, what is the mass of the Mash Tun used for and how do I calculate it for my equipment?

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It's used in temperature calculations. The more mass and the higher the specific heat of your tun, the hotter the strike water has to be. To calculate it, put it on a bathroom scale or a wii balance board or whatever you have. It's ok to estimate it if nothing else.

2) In the mash tab, I try to change "batch sparge" to "fly sparge" by changing the name, temp target (slightly) and the time. When I hit the Mash wiz button I have an issue where batch sparge reappears and it sets my fly sparge to a smaller volume. It seems I'm not able to modify the default sparge setup... is that correct?

Click to expand...

Right now, batch sparging is sort of forced. I say "sort of" because no matter if you're doing a fly sparge or hybrid fly or whatever, the volumes are going to be the exact same as Brewtarget already calculates, as will the temps (I believe). The step name "batch sparge" just appears because if you dump in the sparge all at once, then I guarantee that you'll hit your sparge temp.

What's happening in your particular circumstance is that it thinks your fly sparge step is just another temperature infusion, so it adjusts the volume accordingly. For now, until I have a more elegant solution, just run the mash wiz and then rename "batch sparge" to "fly sparge" and leave it. Also, if you want the sparge to be a different temp, you can change that with the "Edit mash" button before you run the mash wiz.

3) If I add a new step there doesn't seem to be a way to re-order the step. For example, if I add a protein rest to a previously saved single step mash schedule, it seems to add it at the end and I don't see a way to reorder it. This just means I have to go in and retype the steps in. Granted, I don't think most people redesign their mash schedule and setup every batch, but it just added a bit of confusion for me.

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Ah, good point. Yet again, I just didn't think it would get used this way, but it does make sense to put a couple of up/down buttons so that you can reorder the steps.

Yep, if the next revision includes the refractometer tools and a few fixes I will be ditching Beersmith.

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Sweet. Feel free to elaborate. I can make it work however you want.

rocketman768 said:

Right now, batch sparging is sort of forced. I say "sort of" because no matter if you're doing a fly sparge or hybrid fly or whatever, the volumes are going to be the exact same as Brewtarget already calculates, as will the temps (I believe). The step name "batch sparge" just appears because if you dump in the sparge all at once, then I guarantee that you'll hit your sparge temp.

What's happening in your particular circumstance is that it thinks your fly sparge step is just another temperature infusion, so it adjusts the volume accordingly. For now, until I have a more elegant solution, just run the mash wiz and then rename "batch sparge" to "fly sparge" and leave it. Also, if you want the sparge to be a different temp, you can change that with the "Edit mash" button before you run the mash wiz.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I sort of figured it out, it just wasn't very intuitive at first for what I was trying to do. I think it is assumed that if you are fly sparging that you're responsible for keeping the temp of the sparge water stable as you go, so I think that aspect of it is a bit generic. But perhaps you can have a separate step for the sparge to configure your settings. The resetting of the sparge time each time I hit the mash wiz button is the most annoying part I think.

rocketman768 said:

Ah, good point. Yet again, I just didn't think it would get used this way, but it does make sense to put a couple of up/down buttons so that you can reorder the steps.

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Protein rest is also a decent candidate for a separate mash step "type" as people like to use a different qt/lb infusion in this step. If you can set the qt/lb of each step it would be a big help for multi-step mashes as well as potentially limiting the size of the grain bill included in the protein rest. I have seen some people do this when using a cooler setup so they can do a protein + beta and alpha rests within the limits of their setup. I know that requires tweaking the calculations a bit, but it would be quite useful to visualize the amount of water to add when you have 3 lbs of wheat at 122 degrees and then add 12 lbs of base malt and mash-in with more water to reach 140 or whatever... see what I mean? If I am the only one that would find that useful, then screw it, though and I can do the calcs offline.

what do you think of adding some common calculators to the program that could be used separately from the recipes. I thought that it would be so great to have them all in one place, I wouldn't have to go online to search them.

I think ABV calculator and strike water calculator would be a great addition to brewtarget

rocketman768 said:

Right now, batch sparging is sort of forced. I say "sort of" because no matter if you're doing a fly sparge or hybrid fly or whatever, the volumes are going to be the exact same as Brewtarget already calculates, as will the temps (I believe). The step name "batch sparge" just appears because if you dump in the sparge all at once, then I guarantee that you'll hit your sparge temp.

Click to expand...

Is it possible to insert an option that allows you to calculate sparge temps for a double batch sparge? I use BMs hybrid sparge technique and obviously don't ever hit mashout temps on my first infusion b/c I don't put in the full volume of water that Brewtarget calculates. I've figured this out through trial and error that I need 190F+ water for a 2 gallon infusion to reach mashout. It's not a huge issue, but could be frustrating for new all grain brewers who don't heat their water enough and are using double infusion batch sparges.

Once again, thanks for all your work

I've got a request. Hopefully it's not too much at this point.

It would be nice to show the Bitterness Ratio for the recipe. It's handy that it shows wether it's malty/hoppy/balanced, but I think this would give it a little more depth. Also maybe show BR (range?) for the style.

Also, I noticed that the same recipe in Beersmith shows a different IBU, ABV, etc. For instance, BS shows 31.3 IBU and BT shows 33.4 (something like that).

Twofox said:

I've got a request. Hopefully it's not too much at this point.

It would be nice to show the Bitterness Ratio for the recipe. It's handy that it shows wether it's malty/hoppy/balanced, but I think this would give it a little more depth. Also maybe show BR (range?) for the style.

Also, I noticed that the same recipe in Beersmith shows a different IBU, ABV, etc. For instance, BS shows 31.3 IBU and BT shows 33.4 (something like that).

Click to expand...

There are 2 IBU calculation approximations supported by BrewTarget. Tinseth's is default and you can go select Ranger's as well in the Options menu. I don't know which Beersmith uses but I bet you can find out via google or beersmith's website. And in the end, they are just approximations, so you are sort of using it as a basis of comparison for one recipe vs the next.

400d said:

what do you think of adding some common calculators to the program that could be used separately from the recipes. I thought that it would be so great to have them all in one place, I wouldn't have to go online to search them.

I think ABV calculator and strike water calculator would be a great addition to brewtarget

Click to expand...

Alright.

Is it possible to insert an option that allows you to calculate sparge temps for a double batch sparge? I use BMs hybrid sparge technique and obviously don't ever hit mashout temps on my first infusion b/c I don't put in the full volume of water that Brewtarget calculates. I've figured this out through trial and error that I need 190F+ water for a 2 gallon infusion to reach mashout. It's not a huge issue, but could be frustrating for new all grain brewers who don't heat their water enough and are using double infusion batch sparges.

Once again, thanks for all your work

Click to expand...

Based on your's and Randar's comments, I am thinking of a much more interactive mash wiz in the next version.

It would be nice to show the Bitterness Ratio for the recipe. It's handy that it shows wether it's malty/hoppy/balanced, but I think this would give it a little more depth. Also maybe show BR (range?) for the style.

Click to expand...

Good ideas.

There are 2 IBU calculation approximations supported by BrewTarget. Tinseth's is default and you can go select Ranger's as well in the Options menu. I don't know which Beersmith uses but I bet you can find out via google or beersmith's website. And in the end, they are just approximations, so you are sort of using it as a basis of comparison for one recipe vs the next.

Click to expand...

Yes. Also, any two calculators might show different results, even when they use the exact same approximation. The reason is in the implementation. For example, Brewtarget uses the average boil gravity to pass to Tinseth's method. Other programs might use the original or final boil gravity. Things like this will shift the IBUs around a few points. Something to note is that even BJCP judges can't tell the difference between 2 brews that differ by 5 IBUs or less.

400d said:

what do you think of adding some common calculators to the program that could be used separately from the recipes. I thought that it would be so great to have them all in one place, I wouldn't have to go online to search them.

I think ABV calculator and strike water calculator would be a great addition to brewtarget

Click to expand...

Also, would you make a list of all the calculators you would like to see?

rocketman768 said:

Also, would you make a list of all the calculators you would like to see?

Click to expand...

sure no problem. i'll make the list by priority:

1. strike temperature calculator
2. hydrometer correction calculator (sometimes I take a hot sample from first runnings, and don't have time to cool it down)
3. IBU calculators
4. ABV calculator /(OG-FG)*x/
5. ABV to ABW and vice versa


if I think of some more, I'll post it, and of course all other members should add their thoughts according to their needs.

again, you can't imagine how I appreciate your work! I already offered to translate the program to bosnian, serbian, croatian, and polish language... if you want it, no problem!

400d said:

1. strike temperature calculator
2. hydrometer correction calculator (sometimes I take a hot sample from first runnings, and don't have time to cool it down)
3. IBU calculators
4. ABV calculator /(OG-FG)*x/
5. ABV to ABW and vice versa

Click to expand...

Add in the refractometer tools similar to what is in Beersmith. Calibration and unfermented/fermenting/finished beer SG calculators.

Randar said:

There are 2 IBU calculation approximations supported by BrewTarget. Tinseth's is default and you can go select Ranger's as well in the Options menu. I don't know which Beersmith uses but I bet you can find out via google or beersmith's website. And in the end, they are just approximations, so you are sort of using it as a basis of comparison for one recipe vs the next.

Click to expand...

Ok that makes sense. So I should figure IBUs' are within say +/- 2% then for most programs?

edited to delete question, figured it out... it was TOO obvious.

Also, when I click About->Manual I get a blank screen (just downloaded the latest version, 1.2.1) I'm on Mac OS X 10.5.8

rocketman, any chance to add post-brew-day analysis? Since you have all the grain information in the program, how about a brewhouse efficiency calculator for per recipe? (yes, I am that lazy)

Also, maybe a way to save the Brewday logs and notes integrated into them? You could brew the same basic batch and have some different times/notes etc for each that way.

damdaman said:

edited to delete question, figured it out... it was TOO obvious.

Also, when I click About->Manual I get a blank screen (just downloaded the latest version, 1.2.1) I'm on Mac OS X 10.5.8

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Hm. Let me see if I forgot to include the manual there.

rocketman, any chance to add post-brew-day analysis? Since you have all the grain information in the program, how about a brewhouse efficiency calculator for per recipe? (yes, I am that lazy)

Also, maybe a way to save the Brewday logs and notes integrated into them? You could brew the same basic batch and have some different times/notes etc for each that way.

Click to expand...

As a matter of fact, one of my big goals for the next major release is to have a review mode where you can figure out what went wrong and how to correct it next time while the software offers suggestions about tun specific heat, efficiency, etc.

Someone pointed out to me a while back that it would be a good idea to separate the idea of "batch" from "recipe" so that you could associate multiple batches with a particular recipe. I like this idea a lot, and that is another goal for the future.

Cool! I was hoping something like that would be a possibility

I keep loosing my hand written notes and always forget where my gravity finished for certain batches.

rocketman768 said:

Someone pointed out to me a while back that it would be a good idea to separate the idea of "batch" from "recipe" so that you could associate multiple batches with a particular recipe. I like this idea a lot, and that is another goal for the future.

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THIS! :rockin:

Being a big fan of homebrewing and opensource I love this program.
I got a minor niggle though. I'm not sure why but I can't put any of my misc. ingredients at 2 grams. Any suggestions?
Also using Ubuntu I get a blank screen when trying to access the manual too. I did go through the source docs and copied it into a word processor.

Thaks.

G-Lover said:

Being a big fan of homebrewing and opensource I love this program.
I got a minor niggle though. I'm not sure why but I can't put any of my misc. ingredients at 2 grams. Any suggestions?

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Looked into it, and it was a bug. Switching to SI long enough to enter the quantity seems to get around the issue (also, remember you need to check the "amount is weight?" box to enter a weight for Misc ingredients, since they can be either volume or weight).

Also, since this had to do with how units were being handled, this problem motivated me to do something I've been meaning to do...revamp how units are handled internally. God, it was a mess. After several hours, I got it to look much cleaner...not that anything will appear different on the outside, but it was bugging me a lot (forgive the pun).

Also using Ubuntu I get a blank screen when trying to access the manual too. I did go through the source docs and copied it into a word processor.

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Crap. I must have goofed up when packaging it.

Does this mean I get to download the newest new version of Brewtarget and it all magically works now?

When I open up brewtarget, it has the default recipe of "american ipa - sn celebration ale" and the equipment drop down is blank.

All the forcast numbers in the middle column "look good" at this point.

If I select ANY equipment, and recalculate batch size, all the middle column numbers go berzerk (usually very high)

For instance when I select "ideal" the calculated ABV goes up to 15.5%.

Can any one else verify this behavior?

I am running on a source build of svn tag 1.2.1, but have the same issue with trunk 229.



Never mind... i just noticed it is setup for a 10 gallon batch, so putting it through any of the "built in" equipment would make it go berzerk b/c its all too small.

Finally sat down and figured out how to use this on my netbook. My Mac hates me (the feeling is mutal though), so I run 1.2 in Win7 and it's all gravy. I will definitely be using this when I brew my next beer, I should have used it when I brewed my last one.

Hi, I have been using brewtarget for the last 6-7 brews and I love it! Thanks for all your hard work! I have been having a weird issue with the latest version when backing up and then restoring the DB it doubles the recipes, yeasts, hops, etc every time I restore. I have had this happen on both my macbooks (OSX 10.5.8 and OSX 10.6.2) so it seems to be OS independent. Is there any way to resolve this so that the recipes don't double?

Thanks!

LostBrew said:

Hi, I have been using brewtarget for the last 6-7 brews and I love it! Thanks for all your hard work! I have been having a weird issue with the latest version when backing up and then restoring the DB it doubles the recipes, yeasts, hops, etc every time I restore. I have had this happen on both my macbooks (OSX 10.5.8 and OSX 10.6.2) so it seems to be OS independent. Is there any way to resolve this so that the recipes don't double?

Thanks!

Click to expand...

Ah, sorry about that. I'll get it fixed.

On another note, I've been working on a more interactive mash designer. You go through step by step with this:



You can move either of the sliders, which causes the other slider to move so that you hit your target temp. Comments/suggestions?

That looks badass.

I have a suggestion: I'm very interested in Brew-In-A-Bag, so how about a BIAB mash option? At least a "water needed" calculator or something.

eulipion2 said:

I have a suggestion: I'm very interested in Brew-In-A-Bag, so how about a BIAB mash option? At least a "water needed" calculator or something.

Click to expand...

I use this for BIAB. Use the brewday mode and see if that's what you're looking for.

rocketman768 said:

You can move either of the sliders, which causes the other slider to move so that you hit your target temp. Comments/suggestions?

Click to expand...

That looks pretty sweet. Is that showing the "up to date" water volume and mash thickness based on the order of the steps?

Also, I see 156 degrees as the minimum on that slider. Is that just due to the previous step's final temp? I presume the first infusion temp is not limited to this range?

Randar said:

That looks pretty sweet. Is that showing the "up to date" water volume and mash thickness based on the order of the steps?

Also, I see 156 degrees as the minimum on that slider. Is that just due to the previous step's final temp? I presume the first infusion temp is not limited to this range?

Click to expand...

Yes, everything is "up to date" and real time. The min/max temp and volume are calculated for you. The minimum possible infusion temp occurs with the maximum possible infusion volume, calculated from how much more water you can fit in your tun. The max possible infusion temp is obviously boiling (considering making this adjustable depending on your elevation). The max possible infusion volume is how much more you can fit in the tun, and the min possible infusion volume is calculated from max possible infusion temp (boiling).

In other words, if you use this thing, there's no way you can screw up during mashing.

rocketman768 said:

In other words, if you use this thing, there's no way you can screw up during mashing.

Click to expand...

See, now that sounds like a challenge!

Randar said:

See, now that sounds like a challenge!

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Where there's a will, there's a way!

That looks awesome rocketman! Now you'll be testing our patience for the new release.

For what its worth, I was late adding some last minute hops so tried to add -10 minutes to hop addition and program crashed. Sent PM of crash log.

Really appreciate your work on this software. Long last returning to AG brewing after nearly 12 year absence. Love find this software and so many other resources available.

Carter1932 said:

For what its worth, I was late adding some last minute hops so tried to add -10 minutes to hop addition and program crashed. Sent PM of crash log.

Really appreciate your work on this software. Long last returning to AG brewing after nearly 12 year absence. Love find this software and so many other resources available.

Click to expand...

Ah, this is a simple fix. Thanks for pointing that out.

Is there a way to set this up for double batch sparge? I can't get the Mash Wizard to add a second batch, and if I put in two sparge steps and then try to run the wizard, the program crashes with a runtime error.

I have been playing with Brewtarget for the past few months in preparation for making the jump to AG brewing. Over the weekend I made a 10 Gallon batch of Biermuncher's Cream of 3 Crops Cream Ale and was nearly "spot on" in hitting my gravities with the help of Brewtarget. The recipe estimated that the OG would be 1.040 and I measured 1.043. Pretty close! Just wanted to post my results and pass along my thanks for creating a nice Open Source brewing application.

DocBrown said:

Is there a way to set this up for double batch sparge? I can't get the Mash Wizard to add a second batch, and if I put in two sparge steps and then try to run the wizard, the program crashes with a runtime error.

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Currently there is no way to do a double batch sparge. Just heat your sparge water to about 190-195F since you'll be doing two smaller infusions.