Want to do "all-grain" - should I get an RO?

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tim_s

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Hi Home Brewers,

How are you? I am not going to lie -- I am going the route of "most resistance" and starting off with "all-grain". Yes - I am sure my first beer will taste like Yak piss but the truth is - I like a good challenge. To be frank - if anyone could do it, I would be back to buying my micro-brews at the store *heck* it is easier.

So - my background in water chemistry stems from Amazon / Salt Water fish tanks. It has been awhile but I would like to think that I have some sense over a 12 year old (I maybe wrong).

I have some questions:

Noting: I love Pilsners and would love to brew a Pilsner.

1. If money was no object would you get an RO water purifier or perhaps even an RO / DI?

2. To expand upon this discussion what water tests should I buy?
 
I would check your local water first. Seattle water, for instance, is chemically very similar to Pilsen water, so not much need for a RO unit.
 
Most people get their water tested by Ward Labs. Then use one of the water calculators online to adjust for the brew they are doing.
 
Looks like you're diving in head first. Regarding RO purifier I wouldn't. If money is no option than buying RO water is easier.

I was exploring RO purifiers I think $600 was the ballpark. You can get distilled water for 90 cents a gallon in Boston, so ignoring filter, install, and water waste costs (my understanding is RO purifier uses a TON of waste water) you'd have to use 667 gallons from the purifier to make it a better deal than buying. Ignoring price, it still seems easier just to pick up the water at the store.

This is just my opinion, but here's my suggestions if you're going to start brewing off AG:

- Don't start with a pilsner where you'll want to mess with water chemistry
- Don't start with a lager in general. You'll have enough to be thinking about with an ale to want to worry about larger pitching rate and holding temps. Start with an ale so you have something to drink while your lager is lagering.
- Provided your water is palatable and not too extreme with minerals I'd use tap water (preferably filtered through charcoal filter). Will it be the best beer you ever tasted? No. Will it be drinkable and allow you to focus on hitting your mash temp, sparging clear wort, hitting your post boil volume, adding hops at the right intervals, ensuring adequate sanitation, etc? Yes!
- Focus on the basic AG process your first couple batches and learn your system. The difference between boiling down to 4.5 gal instead of 5.5 gal will have a much bigger impact on your beer than adjusting the water. The perfect water profile but where OG (and subsequent bittering level) is way off will not give you the results you want.
 
The_Gerbil_Brewer said:
Looks like you're diving in head first. Regarding RO purifier I wouldn't. If money is no option than buying RO water is easier.

I was exploring RO purifiers I think $600 was the ballpark. You can get distilled water for 90 cents a gallon in Boston, so ignoring filter, install, and water waste costs (my understanding is RO purifier uses a TON of waste water) you'd have to use 667 gallons from the purifier to make it a better deal than buying. Ignoring price, it still seems easier just to pick up the water at the store.

This is just my opinion, but here's my suggestions if you're going to start brewing off AG:

- Don't start with a pilsner where you'll want to mess with water chemistry
- Don't start with a lager in general. You'll have enough to be thinking about with an ale to want to worry about larger pitching rate and holding temps. Start with an ale so you have something to drink while your lager is lagering.
- Provided your water is palatable and not too extreme with minerals I'd use tap water (preferably filtered through charcoal filter). Will it be the best beer you ever tasted? No. Will it be drinkable and allow you to focus on hitting your mash temp, sparging clear wort, hitting your post boil volume, adding hops at the right intervals, ensuring adequate sanitation, etc? Yes!
- Focus on the basic AG process your first couple batches and learn your system. The difference between boiling down to 4.5 gal instead of 5.5 gal will have a much bigger impact on your beer than adjusting the water. The perfect water profile but where OG (and subsequent bittering level) is way off will not give you the results you want.
Click to expand...


I just bought a 75 GPD 6-stage RODI system for $100 to my doorstep. Drastically improved the flavor of my beer even for my decent tap water.
 
If you're on city water, I'd hunt down a water report from them and, assuming it's somewhat reasonable, start with using salts and lactic acid to adjust from the tap water.
 
It is possible that your tap water is well suited for brewing, but you won't know unless you test it. The good thing about using RO is that you can make fairly accurate assumptions about the water quality (near zero ion concentrations). That is an adequate substitution for testing.

That old brewer's adage: If the water tastes good, you can brew with it, only has one truism in it...that if the water tastes bad, you can't brew with it. It doesn't mean that you can just brew and expect to produce great beer. Most brewing requires some adjustment to the water to give the brewer an opportunity to create great beer.

If the goal is to brew lightly flavored beers such as Pils, then the advantage of using RO becomes more clear. Some tap waters are too mineralized to serve as the base of delicately flavored beers such as Pils. With regard to the need for a DI stage in a brewing water treatment system, no, you don't need that stage and it is actually useless since a low level of mineralization is desirable for all brewing. At the professional level that I deal with, most brewers utilize nanofiltration (a coarse form of RO) for exactly that reason...it lets a little more ionic content through the membrane and it reduces their cost for water and energy waste.

If you are in a hurry, just get an RO system. If you can wait, send a water sample to a lab such as Ward Labs and review the result. I suggest you consult the Water Knowledge page on the Bru'n Water website to help understand what the lab result is telling you and how that will affect the beer.
 

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