The [Horribly Unpopular] Soccer Thread

I'd actually argue the opposite because they're together so little. If you fire your coach every 2 years or less you have little idea if they really were good or bad, they barely had any time to assess him. 2 seasons or so with a pro team is usually enough, you've seen the manager in probably somewhere around 80-100 matches, you should have a pretty good idea by that point. Now, have teams won shortly (relatively) after changing managers? Of course, but that doesn't mean it was the right decision.

http://soccer.nbcsports.com/2016/06...BC Sports Soccer&utm_tags=srm[soccer,article]

Uhhh......really?

I read that and laughed. the ref's justification that it was deliberate and likened it to peeing on the side of the pitch was my favorite part.

Oh, I'm still laughing as well. Absolutely hilarious.

Well, in the ref's defense, we don't have video of the incident. Maybe he did it like this:

I mean, if an opposing player was on the ground, and he sat down on his face and farted, I can see getting sent off for that. But that would have been even funnier.

WIth the UK voting to leave the EU and results looking like they will, wonder what that will do to getting players to the premier league. Last 2 big MLS moves to the EPL were Yedlin and Miazga who held EU pass ports (Latvian and Polish) so they could work anywhere in the EU. First I wonder if the UK will keep the same visa rules when it comes to passports. Second is what will be the new loop hole if they do close it? Third is will this impact the EPL?

hoppyhoppyhippo said:

WIth the UK voting to leave the EU and results looking like they will, wonder what that will do to getting players to the premier league. Last 2 big MLS moves to the EPL were Yedlin and Miazga who held EU pass ports (Latvian and Polish) so they could work anywhere in the EU. First I wonder if the UK will keep the same visa rules when it comes to passports. Second is what will be the new loop hole if they do close it? Third is will this impact the EPL?

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As it currently stands, it'll have an impact on work permit rules. But from what I've read, a few rule changes on the FA's part would fix it. Some reports are saying the actual tangible impact will be negligible.

This is a pretty decent breakdown:

How Brexit Could Hurt US Players

That said, I mostly agree with Q, if the FA wants to continue to see great players play in England, they'll figure it out.

Can we say the US got CONCACAF'd if the refs weren't from CONCACAF?

That wasn't a great game for team USA...but I can't say it was terrible. The USMNT are done with the Copa America, having finished in 4th place out of 16 teams. A few observations.

We Got COMMEBOLED
That handball off of the keeper's failed clearance? 100% legit, and that phantom call of a foul on for doing something to the Colombia keeper was a terrible call.

Reminder: We Aren't There Yet
Fernando Fiore, the FS1 pre-game and half time commentator had a great little...for lack of a better term, rant on the FS1 pre-game before the show. Find a clip if you can, because it's spot on and poignant and he shuts up US Soccer's village idiot Alexi Lalas. Fiore basically points out that the USMNT is not a top team yet, and probably won't be in his lifetime or Lalas' and that the USA is not special in this regard. Just because we occasionally beat a top team doesn't mean we are one.

There's Not Much Any Keeper Could Do About That Goal
Some people were criticizing Tim Howard on the Colombia goal, but with as good as that ball in was, it's not his fault there. It's up to the defense and every other player in front of Howard to prevent Colombia from even getting in that position, and they failed.

The Old Guys Can't Keep Doing This
As good as Dempsey and Jones looked at the group stage of the tournament, they've been steadily fading as time has gone on outside of that group stage. It's unlikely that Jones or Dempsey can be or will be starters at the 2018 World Cup, but we don't really have any ready replacements; as it stands right now, nobody has Dempsey's touch on a free kick at the goal (his shot today? Damn near perfect) and nobody has the all around instincts and skill of Jones in the midfield, outside of maybe Michael Bradley (on a good day). The team that heads to the 2018 World Cup may be the least talented in a generation, and that's 100% on the failures of the development system from years ago.

Overall, It Was Okay
For the first time ever, the USMNT won their group in the Copa America; sure they only did it because Colombia took their foot off the gas against Costa Rica, but team USA won the group. The USMNT tied their best ever result in the Copa America too. Overall, this was a very successful tournament.

The Future Might See More of This
There are rumors and outright statements pointing towards the possibility of a combined North and South America Copa America; what, exactly, this would mean and how it would all shake out is yet to be seen, but pretty soon the USMNT might find itself regularly clashing with South American teams.

Agree with all of that. There were a number of good chances, either squandered or just unlucky (but that went both ways).

However, seems that Brexit may impact more than just players coming into the UK. Could impact UK players elsewhere. Notable example is Gareth Bale.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...ow-gareth-bales-real-madrid-future-into-doub/

Well, it's worth noting that the reclassification shouldn't/doesn't happen until the UK is officially out, so Bale should be okay for at least a year or two, but it's definitely a problem; of course it's a problem that thousands of Brits who work in Europe will face at the same time, and they're much less likely for their employer to keep them. Makes me wonder if a few more Englishmen might not make the trip across the pond to the former colonies, the US and Canada have looser laws for talented people; guys who maybe can't get in to European clubs anymore might see MLS as an attractive option.

Well, the EU has basically said they want this process over as quickly as possible, so who knows what's going to happen. And as the article I linked said, the odds are far, far higher that Real Madrid unloads another non-EU player before unloading Bale and thus comply with their own league rules.

I guess the point is that I doubt many fully understand just how many consequences this will have just in the world of sports, let alone the world at large.

But if this goes the messy divorce route, which it sounds like it may, yeah, I could see greater interchange between players from the England and the Americas if transfers to the rest of Europe become too messy in financially unwieldy.

Very true, it will make things more difficult for UK players to move around, we'll see how messy or swift this "brexit" is but I think Bale should be fine in the near future, I doubt it will be faster than 1 year.

Talgrath said:

There's Not Much Any Keeper Could Do About That Goal
Some people were criticizing Tim Howard on the Colombia goal, but with as good as that ball in was, it's not his fault there. It's up to the defense and every other player in front of Howard to prevent Colombia from even getting in that position, and they failed.

The Old Guys Can't Keep Doing This
As good as Dempsey and Jones looked at the group stage of the tournament, they've been steadily fading as time has gone on outside of that group stage. It's unlikely that Jones or Dempsey can be or will be starters at the 2018 World Cup, but we don't really have any ready replacements; as it stands right now, nobody has Dempsey's touch on a free kick at the goal (his shot today? Damn near perfect) and nobody has the all around instincts and skill of Jones in the midfield, outside of maybe Michael Bradley (on a good day). The team that heads to the 2018 World Cup may be the least talented in a generation, and that's 100% on the failures of the development system from years ago.

Overall, It Was Okay
For the first time ever, the USMNT won their group in the Copa America; sure they only did it because Colombia took their foot off the gas against Costa Rica, but team USA won the group. The USMNT tied their best ever result in the Copa America too. Overall, this was a very successful tournament.

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I don't disagree with Howard and that goal. Similar to the Messi free kick there's nothing you can do. The fault for me on that play was Besler being way over. I don't think that cross happens with Brooks there or even with Fabian there. Losing those 2 stung.

I kind of agree about the old guys, but Jones was really strong that last game. Granted it was probably because he had a game off.

But we need guys in to replace them. I think we will before Russia because at the very elast young talented guys like Morris, Hyndman, etc will be pushing those 2 guys.

I disagree that it was OK. We were great, beat everyone we realistically had a chance to beat. Colombia and Argentina should beat us 10 times out of 10, I think the fact that Colombia needed that much help to squeak out a 1-0 win shows well for the USA.

What gets me is BRadley, what the hell happened to Bradley? He had one decent game (Costa Rica) aside from that he's sucked. And he sucke dlast gold cup and in some WCQ. I wonder if MLS is hurting him too much.

I watched it. Cant be the best player in the world, quote and not put a pk on goal. Kick it in the ground

Hoo boy, get ready for the hottest of takes. Messi says he's retiring...from international football.

Messi Retires

To be honest, I have a hard time blaming him, he knows the Argentina press is going to roast him for the PK miss, despite the fact that he's played extremely well all tournament and they've never really backed him up. If I was him I might take my millions and just hang out in Spain too.

EDIT:
Mascherano is out too.

Mascherano Quits

HoppyDaze said:

I watched it. Cant be the best player in the world, quote and not put a pk on goal. Kick it in the ground

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IMHO this guy should be rated higher than Messi

Led his country & clubes to glory - ok he didn't score 800 goals & he did have a bit of a temper, but you could count on this guy to lead his team - now he is learning how to be a Top Gaffer & already has won a European Cup.

robdogj said:

IMHO this guy should be rated higher than Messi

Led his country & clubes to glory - ok he didn't score 800 goals & he did have a bit of a temper, but you could count on this guy to lead his team - now he is learning how to be a Top Gaffer & already has won a European Cup.

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I don't know. He wears a number 4, which is rare for one receiving best in the world accolades, and ZZ really seems to be skinning him there. I think Messi is better than that guy.

fourfarthing said:

I don't know. He wears a number 4, which is rare for one receiving best in the world accolades, and ZZ really seems to be skinning him there. I think Messi is better than that guy.

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I am talking about Zidane - he was one of the best that ever played the game & now he is champion gaffer. BTW, let's take a moment to laugh @ England. More spudz players in their line-up. Talking about castles made in sand

"England Exits Europe Twice in Less Than a Week". There's gonna be some great Brexit jokes out of this.

Shameful on all accounts.

And Roy resigned what, less than 30 minutes after the whistle? Buhbye.

But good for Iceland. Since it's been a fairytale type of season, let them have theirs.

Silver lining, nobody's going to be trying to poach any of our guys. Or maybe mud colored lining. Groan.

England fans after the loss:

HoppyDaze said:

I watched it. Cant be the best player in the world, quote and not put a pk on goal. Kick it in the ground

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Messi is not the best PK taker. I think it's because he's cute about it. In my general experience, the best PK takers are the ones who keep it simple. Look at Leighton Baines. He had like 14 for 15 PKs after he missed his big one.

"Give Hodgson a break. The man was just hired to handle the EU negotiations, since he has so much experience with exiting Europe".

Joe Hart is just not a great keeper. He's super athletic which makes him a very good keeper, maybe even a wall at times, but both goals saw poor positioning and footwork bite him in the ass. The first was mainly the defense's fault, but he was way too far off his line. If he was further back he may have made a play.Second one I just don't get, it wasn't hit that far besides him.

Taylor Twellman had a great tweet this morning about England - great marketing of the BPL brings about false expectations for the National team. Look at that roster. Not much top talent if any compared to other nations and probably too many guys who think they are far better because of the media hype machine.

And I was just playing. Cheers!

robdogj said:

I am talking about Zidane - he was one of the best that ever played the game & now he is champion gaffer. BTW, let's take a moment to laugh @ England. More spudz players in their line-up. Talking about castles made in sand

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jgarretson said:

Taylor Twellman had a great tweet this morning about England - great marketing of the BPL brings about false expectations for the National team. Look at that roster. Not much top talent if any compared to other nations and probably too many guys who think they are far better because of the media hype machine.

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Have to disagree here.

Though there is a difference between ENgland and Germany Italy or Spain. Is those countries have "national team" clubs.

Lots of Germany's top players play for Bayern, lots Italy's top players play for Juve, most of the peak Spain players played for Real or Barca. And all of those teams are league leaders year in and year out. The top contributors to England are mainly from Liverpool or Tottenham. The year in year out league leaders like Chelsea, Arsenal, Man CIty, and Man United rely heavily on non-English players. England's best form came when Man United had tons of English stars like Rio, Beckham, Scholes, Neville, etc. Even then they underachieved regularly.

But I think you're actually agreeing with me. Liverpool and Tottenham are hardly elite clubs in Europe. We'll see next year in Champions League when Spurs gets murdered. Contrast that to Juve, Bayern or the Spanish clubs.

There's such a hype about English players because of the media and attention the Premier League gets around the globe but is Adam Lallana on the same level as Iniesta or Kroos? No way.

Twellman's point is nobody should be shocked that England has won one game in the past two major competitions. They just aren't that good individually. They're hardly a step up from the US and quite possibly equals on most days.

THey're more than a step above the US. They're not on the level of the top teams, but they're a really solid team. Their faults are many. First off the expectation is unrealistic. Fans expect them to be on Germany's level, and they aren't. That being said, they're one restructure away from being a world power. Think about Germany after their Euro bomb out before Jurgen came in. Sometimes countries need a shakeup. England have the talent, Stones, Sterling, DIer, Barkley, Alli, and Kane are all really talented players.

hoppyhoppyhippo said:

THey're more than a step above the US. They're not on the level of the top teams, but they're a really solid team. Their faults are many. First off the expectation is unrealistic. Fans expect them to be on Germany's level, and they aren't. That being said, they're one restructure away from being a world power. Think about Germany after their Euro bomb out before Jurgen came in. Sometimes countries need a shakeup. England have the talent, Stones, Sterling, DIer, Barkley, Alli, and Kane are all really talented players.

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I think the US and England are on opposite ends of the spectrum. I think the US is lacking a bit in quality (youth system failures and yada yada yada) but has the motivation and drive to do relatively well when the appropriate coaching is there (where Klinsmann has done a relatively ok job). England I think has the quality to do very well (agree, they're not on Germany's level even then), but what they've lacked is the motivation and the coaching. While recent performances can certainly be partially placed on lack of effort by the players, I'd say more falls on the manager for a) failing to motivate and b) utterly failing to have any tactical sense, and c) form any sort of sensible coherent plan to the lineup.

Perhaps what was already said is the case, with countries where a majority of the national team players already play for said country's top league team, the functioning as a unit is already there.

However, that comes with the territory when you have leagues where there's virtually no competition between the top one or two teams and the rest of the league. The EPL is far more competitive, and there's not one sole side with a host of English players to draw from. Liverpool is still in a restructuring process under Klopp from what was a very similar situation to England under Rodgers- a side with a fair amount of star power with no real cohesion, and the tactics that Hodgson tried to employ didn't mesh well with the tactics that the Spurs players were performing under Poch. It's no surprise that on all accounts they failed to perform.

That's my inebriated take at least.

But ultimately I'd agree with the assessment that in terms of actual on the pitch performance, England is only slightly above the US at this point. Heavy hype, without the results to back it up.

Also, just gonna say it, if you want anything from any English clubs, skip the US sites and go for the UK. Spurs 15/16 stuff, on sale before the "official" release of 16/17 kits, postage included is cheaper than US-based sites right now, and if the Pound continues to plummet (which it likely will), will only get cheaper.

Reno what are your thoughts on this?

http://reno1868fc.com/news/?article_id=35

The US Open Cup had a big round of games last night, ending round 5 of the competition, a few interesting situations cropped up in the 5th round:

The Sounders Won a Game!
The regular season of MLS has been pretty lousy for the Rave Green, but the Open Cup could be a bright spot for them: their "B" team went down Salt Lake and beat RSL's "A" team in penalties to advance after a 1-1 tie. The young Sounders' keeper, Tyler Miller, might very well start getting some looks from the USMNT and perhaps from other teams and might have a chance to unseat Stefan Frei, as he was excellent (Miller had two appearances for the USMNT U-23 team previously, as a note). For Sounders fans, it's not what they really want...but it's something.

Ft. Lauderdale Strikers Continue Their Cinderella Run
The NY Cosmos may have succumbed to reality against New England last night, but Ft. Lauderdale apparently hasn't gotten the memo. The Strikers beat Orlando City SC, who have been doing pretty well in MLS, last night. This is the farthest any team from the new NASL has gotten in the tournament and it's the farthest anyone not from MLS has gotten since the Charleston Batter made it all the way to the final in 2008. It wouldn't be that crazy to see them reach the semi-finals either, their next opponent is the Chicago Fire, who have been more of a dumpster fire this year in MLS.

Jesse Marsch Loses His Mind
After one of his assistant coaches was sent off for time wasting in the NYRB's loss to Philadelphia, at the end of the match Jesse Marsch absolutely lost it after a foul call went against his team at the edge of the Union's box. Marsch picked up two soccer balls and hurled them, one at the ground and one at the Union's bench. I fully expect to see Marsch get a multi-match/multi-year ban not unlike Clint Dempsey's from the Open Cup, he might also see a match ban in MLS too.

Wow @ Wales handily defeating Belgium. I would love to see a Wales/Iceland Euro final. Granted I'm skeptical as to whether or not Wales will beat Portugal (possible for sure), and doubtful that Iceland will make it past France, let alone France and then either Germany or Italy.

http://video.eurosport.com/football...s-to-be-england-manager_vid813899/video.shtml

This is priceless.

Well, he's got my vote!