Wheats and Secondaries

Do you need to put wheats in a secondary? I was thinking of doing it just to filter a little of the trub and orange peel out (trying a Blue Moon clone), but since they're going to stay cloudy, if I were doing a hefe, would it be beneficial?

As long as your attenuation was at about 75% then it's done.

Normally I let it go about 2 weeks in the primary, then rack straight to a keg

Additional item to keep in mind. Unlike other brews, Hefe's don't seem to age well (at least, mine don't, and I've heard this said by others). I suggest you drink them down while they are young.

SteveM said:

Additional item to keep in mind. Unlike other brews, Hefe's don't seem to age well (at least, mine don't, and I've heard this said by others). I suggest you drink them down while they are young.

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That's what I have been reading and wondering. In everyone's experience for a regular wheat how long until it is drinkable and won't improve, and how long until it starts losing it?

Same question for Dunkelweizen.

You don't need a secondary but some put it in the secondary for a week just to let some more yeast drop out of it. Then, dump it down the drain since it is in fact a wheat beer.

todd_k said:

You don't need a secondary but some put it in the secondary for a week just to let some more yeast drop out of it. Then, dump it down the drain since it is in fact a wheat beer.

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Are you filling in for the good Pastor while he writes Part V of his tale?

the_bird said:

Are you filling in for the good Pastor while he writes Part V of his tale?

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Not at all but we do share the same opinion on this topic! There are very few wheats that I've tried and liked.

Mine peaked early but never got to be undrinkable. I bottled it last September and had the last one just last night.

However, to me the gold standard of wheats is Paulaner's, and mine never came close to that. My expectations are that a beer I make will be better by a lot than commercial equivalents. Otherwise why bother? I doubt I will make another.

You don't have to secondary any beer, but I believe a wheat will benefit from it just like other beers. It's not about clarification, it's about conditioning (and Hefeweizens have a lot of flavors going on). Some commercial brewers of traditional Hefeweizens go straight to bottle, but many go to a conditioning take for 5 to 28 days at a cooler temperature.

I was wondering the same thing about wheats. I have a hefe that was chugging along for 11 days in the primary before finally slowing down. I'm at the point where I could transfer to a secondary if I wanted to. It seems the consensus is still mixed. No, wheats don't need to clear any more, but I would think they still need conditioning. Any one else have an opinion from experience?

My honey hefe went a month in the primary, then I racked into the secondary for a week to help clear it a little (actually didn't have any bottles cleaned yet ). I bottled it last Sunday (Jan 28th). I tried one tonight and it had already carbonated but it still needs to condition some more, had a banana taste to it. Hopefully in another 2.5 weeks it will be good

Baron von BeeGee said:

You don't have to secondary any beer, but I believe a wheat will benefit from it just like other beers. It's not about clarification, it's about conditioning (and Hefeweizens have a lot of flavors going on). Some commercial brewers of traditional Hefeweizens go straight to bottle, but many go to a conditioning take for 5 to 28 days at a cooler temperature.

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That's one of the things I'm experimenting on RIGHT NOW!!!

I have a HW in the primary...11 days. Just sampled it. More clovey than banana since it's fermented at 68F instead of higher. I have another HW that's just perculating away so it'll be ready in a few more days/1 week.

I am dissolving 3/4 C wheat DME in 2 C water as we speak. I will boil it in a bit and make a starter.

About a month or so ago I drank some Hacker-Pschorr HWs and saved the yeast from the bottles. I made a starter with that yeast and split it up into baby food jars (BFJ). I will be taking one of my BFJs and making a starter with that for the sole purpose of bottling.

We always read that the Germans bottle HWs with a lager yeast...so here I go...I'll keep all informed.

homebrewer_99 said:

We always read that the Germans bottle HWs with a lager yeast...so here I go...I'll keep all informed.

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I believe they do it both ways, but lager yeasts for bottle refermentations are quite common since they provide a very clean bottle fermentation. It's also interesting to note for some of the newer Hefe brewers (since such a high premium is placed on 'cloudy' Hefeweizens which makes people not want to secondary) that most commercial German producers who referment with lager yeast actually filter their Hefeweizen first resulting in a very clear beverage with much less yeast. Nevertheless, the yeast which results from the bottle fermentation will settle out in the bottle and this is what results in the cloudy character when swished into solution and poured into the glass.

Even though I put mine in the secondary for a week, when I pour a glass tonight it was still pretty cloudy. Once it conditions for a couple more weeks I upload a picture.

They'll normally be cloudy unless you really try to make them not be, i.e., filtration or cold conditioning to settle them out.

I dont think I understand what is meant by "referment with lager yeast". Do they use lager yeast from the get-go? or is it re-added at some stage to existing regular HW yeast?

I'm new to the scene, but I'm interested in finding out as much as I can about HWs. I lived in Germany for a bit ([ame="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=Ulm,+Germany&ie=UTF8&z=8&ll=48.487486,10.71167&spn=1.754874,5.806274&om=1&iwloc=addr"]Ulm[/ame], to be specific) and, man, were the Hefe's delicious. Nothing beats straight out of the tap at the brewery. Yum.

Paperface said:

I dont think I understand what is meant by "referment with lager yeast". Do they use lager yeast from the get-go? or is it re-added at some stage to existing regular HW yeast?

I'm new to the scene, but I'm interested in finding out as much as I can about HWs. I lived in Germany for a bit (Ulm, to be specific) and, man, were the Hefe's delicious. Nothing beats straight out of the tap at the brewery. Yum.

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The Hefe's strains are Ale strains I believe. That is what gives the beer the clove, banana, bubble-gum, etc esters. The lager strains, I believe, are used to continue fermentation at cold(er) conditioning temps resulting in a clean finish and clarity.

Right...ale for fermenting, lager for conditioning.

We've discussed this many times before, it's just now that I am getting around to it.

I lived in Augsburg and Bamberg.

First time I had a HW was Feb 2, 1975! ...been drinking them ever since.

Just to clarify, the full primary fermentation is done by ale yeast. The beer is then moved to a conditioning tank for a period of time and then filtered. A lager yeast is then introduced at bottling time for carbonation, not for any significant fermentation of the wort itself. Commercial brewers usually accomplish this with speisse which is actual fermenting wort.

Personally I like Hefeweizen right after it's done fermenting. If you don't like it then, put it away for a few weeks and taste it again.

As a rule of thumb I like to leave a moderate gravity beer for a month or so before trying it but hefeweizen and Mild, for me, are the exception.

Update...I got home tonight and there was a hell of a lot of yeast in the flask. I added the starter to the bottling bucket and racked from the primary the bottled.

Most of the yeast ended up on the bottom. It did not mix well.

I ended up pouring it all back into the bottling bucket and priming.

This process was a failure in my book.

Maybe I'll try again later.