Does anyone else find Beersmith clunky?

I'll start by saying I am an engineer and am able to use a computer. It isn't that I can't figure out Beersmith, it just seems kind of clunky or not very streamlined. Maybe I need to watch a couple videos.

Edit: I want to mention that I think Beersmith is a very well crafted piece of software and I really appreciate everything Brad Smith does for homebrewing. His podcasts are excellent and if you haven't listened to them there are some really interesting episodes. I felt like I didn't "get" Beersmith so I made this post. I just want to clarify that this was not intended to be a Beersmith bashing party.

2.0, yes I do indeed, the reason I never upgraded.

I really liked version 1 but I upgraded to version 2 and I feel like I cant find anything or my eyes are roaming all over the place. For some reason I can only add 13 metrics like "Estimated pre-boil efficiency"... Why 13?

David

djonesax said:

I really liked version 1 but I upgraded to version 2 and I feel like I cant find anything or my eyes are roaming all over the place.

David

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Exactly. I have been using it for a little while now and still feel like my eyes are darting around all the time.

yes, very clunky and non-intuitive. I work in IT and I've been using beersmith for a couple of years and still have issues with it. Lately, I've been using brewer's friend more and I'm about to go all in and buy their subscription and mobile app. It has it's own issues but I'll deal with those over the BS issues.

I switched from BeerSmith to http://www.brewersfriend.com/ after I could not reactivate my software on getting a new laptop and got no help from BeerSmith.
I honestly have found it easier and better having my recipes in the cloud and accessible anywhere (including at work with no software installs).

Ditto from another longtime IT professional... it takes the approach of show me everything - which, while fun in a geeky kind of way - can detract from the practical focus on executing new recipes. Once things are dialed in, many of the variables can and should be hidden away. The fact that everything sits there all the time is visually overwhelming to me. Put simply, it's TMI.

Yes. I have my own mash calculator which I obviously use. However I usually use beersmith or brewers friend when I'm tweaking recipes. I reached out to Brad in an email a couple months back if he was interested in me helping/working for him and reorganizing a bit of beersmith. He replied back with a tentative maybe, and asked me about qualifications and stuff then a followup email he listed the languages he uses to make beersmith. I had never heard of about 1/3 of them... So that was a nope lol

It's a great piece of software, but the UI needs some work for sure. Why are all the variables scattered all over the place. Way to much moving around and clicking and closing windows and popups and settings for me.

Background is math and physics research double major, with some programming experience.

Mash calculator is at my blog Pricelessbrewing.github.io/BiabCalc

Eh. It's not the worst program I've ever used by far. I've gotten used to it. I know where the information I'm looking for is.

Still waiting for the mobile app to get an active inventory thing going so I know what I need to buy at the LHBS by looking at my phone...

Extremely clunky and misses the mark on quite a few ui enhancements that would make things so easy. Like displaying th BRIX in the tool tip of all gravity values.

Yes, i don't even understand their website. I am not about to spend the $ on their app. If they cleaned up their site and made it look...usable, i might give them a try. I find brewers friend alot easier and more intuitive.

wow. huge bash on BeerSmith. it is by far the best brewing software I've seen. Brewing is complex... get over it.

I got an email from Brad asing for ANY suggestions and he replied to me right away. He even already had 4K monitor support in beta when I suggested it!

m1k3 said:

Brewing is complex... get over it.

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Software, however, doesn't have to be complex... get over that.

Personally I'm fine with the nature of brewing.

No, no more so than Excel or Access. I guess if you want a kids toy with a primary colored GUI and big buttons, BrewSmith isn't for you but if you want a powerful tool that is a solid workhorse, then yes, get BrewSmith.

Sheesh, iPad generation....

Honestly, after I put some time in I finally 'got' beersmith. Now I couldn't imagine using anything else. Tried the other options, still came back to beersmith.

It's a brewing calculator. Brewing is complex, and beersmith gives you access to all the variables, where as a lot of other software makes 'assumptions' about it.

You can scale beersmith from 5 gallon partial boil extract batches all the way up to 15+ barrel microbrewery batches. It's that flexible. If it seems complex, it's because there are a *ton* of variables involved.

I'm a +1 for love it. Brilliant piece of software that allows you to set things up the way you want to. I get really frustrated by 'simple' software that just doesn't let you do what you want.

m1k3 said:

wow. huge bash on BeerSmith. it is by far the best brewing software I've seen. Brewing is complex... get over it.

I got an email from Brad asing for ANY suggestions and he replied to me right away. He even already had 4K monitor support in beta when I suggested it!

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That is the sole purpose of having software. You take a complex task and simplify it. I don't think anyone is bashing the software it works well. But the software is extremely clunky

It's very clunky. Ver 1.4 wasn't. I have thought about going back (I kept the old installer), but 2.x does have some nice features. But it's an example of terrible GUI design. There are way too many tool bars / side panels. Many of them seem to do the same thing. I.e., Tools at the top, then Tool tab just below it, then the Tools docked side panel on the left. I've turned off the side panel altogether (option is under View).

I will continue using it because although it is clunky, it's comprehensive. It has everything I would want. Also, unlike the ProMash, it looks like this software will be supported and updated for a long time. Brad Smith is a member here, but hasn't been active in over a year now that he has his blog, podcasts, forum, etc. He's very active in the community and we can expect him to improve the software in the future.

I posted this in the other thread as well. Adding that, yes, it is clunky. But once I get my profiles dialed in, it should be easier to use.
I bought Beersmith and currently only use it for saving my recipes. Beersmith has so many variables. I barely have enough time to brew beer, much less enter profiles and learn the software. When I do brew, I try to document everything, so that I can just plug the info into Beersmith when I do have time.
I use the online calculators in Brewers Friend, and usually design recipes there as well.

passedpawn said:

It's very clunky. Ver 1.4 wasn't. I have thought about going back (I kept the old installer), but 2.x does have some nice features. But it's an example of terrible GUI design. There are way too many tool bars / side panels. Many of them seem to do the same thing. I.e., Tools at the top, then Tool tab just below it, then the Tools docked side panel on the left. I've turned off the side panel altogether (option is under View).

I will continue using it because although it is clunky, it's comprehensive. It has everything I would want. Also, unlike the ProMash, it looks like this software will be supported and updated for a long time. Brad Smith is a member here, but hasn't been active in over a year now that he has his blog, podcasts, forum, etc. He's very active in the community and we can expect him to improve the software in the future.

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My thoughts exactly.

I should clarify, I like the software and will continue to use it but the last UI seemed easier on the eyes.

David

I've only ever used version 2 so I don't have anything to compare it to. It wasn't very intuitive to learn but now that I'm used to it and have my details dialed it, it's very useful and easy to use.

My only *wishlist* item is to have the mobile version synced to the desktop. That would be so handy. I hate printing out brewsheets and not being to modify anything on the fly. Using my iPad and syncing it up over WiFi would be tremendous.

I think the newer interface is a step back in ease of use. I still use it, but frankly I still have issues with volumes and things.

I've tried Brewer's Friend, but I'm still on the fence with it. I'd like to try a few more recipes to compare to get the hang of it, but my trial has expired. Not sure I want to pay for it over BS at this point.

I think Brad could simplify the interface a bit. Some of the tweaks and options are not intuitive.

That said, it's still very useful software and Brads has done a great job with it overall and has really advanced the art and science of homebrewing IMO.

mbbransc said:

I've only ever used version 2 so I don't have anything to compare it to. It wasn't very intuitive to learn but now that I'm used to it and have my details dialed it, it's very useful and easy to use.

My only *wishlist* item is to have the mobile version synced to the desktop. That would be so handy. I hate printing out brewsheets and not being to modify anything on the fly. Using my iPad and syncing it up over WiFi would be tremendous.

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They do have a mobile version, but they only let you load 15 recipes after that you have to pay a fee. I think $20/yr

NervousDad said:

They do have a mobile version, but they only let you load 15 recipes after that you have to pay a fee. I think $20/yr

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Correct, but the (2) software packages don't sync.

mbbransc said:

My only *wishlist* item is to have the mobile version synced to the desktop. That would be so handy. I hate printing out brewsheets and not being to modify anything on the fly. Using my iPad and syncing it up over WiFi would be tremendous.

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The mobile version will sync with the desktop version. It only keeps 15 recipes in active sync at once without an additional subscription, but you can just use the sync function to pass recipes, then store them locally.

ong said:

The mobile version will sync with the desktop version. It only keeps 15 recipes in active sync at once without an additional subscription, but you can just use the sync function to pass recipes, then store them locally.

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You're talking about the cloud feature, which isn't the same as syncing devices. It's another service, with its own fee structure.

Personally, I have 2 desktop licenses, a mobile and the top tier cloud subscription. But, I use the software for making beer commercially and there isn't a license for that. It just seemed more ethical for me to spend a little money on a lot of options, since it's still magnitudes cheaper than any other commercial brewing software.

Obviously, that's not going to be practical for almost anyone else. That said, syncing across devices is a lot more useful than the cloud, which only lets one device edit a recipe at a time.

I had a hard time learning beersmith at first and love it now. At the moment I wish for beersmith had a way to manage inventory on the cloud.

I like all the options I won't use anything else now. I do think the user interface could use some streamlined. I would love to see a Parti Gyle, and cider fruit calc(I know the work around) in the tools section. Back when I bought BS 2 I revived a email asking about any improvements I thought the BS 2 could benefit from. I bet Brad is working on the UI, what would be useful for future upgrades?

Firewalker11 said:

Sheesh, iPad generation....

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I have the ipad version. Its like he's taken a Win 3.1 program and submitted to the app store. Great program, not so great interface.

I've honestly tried getting used to beersmith and I'm still having a hard time. One of the aspects that is blowing my mind is the over reliance on profiles. It seems every time I want to tweak something like boil volume, it reverts back to the equipment profile. Normally for my own personal brewing it wouldn't be a big deal because of how infrequently you'd switch equipment, but I'm throwing recipes together for customers on the fly and it seems counterintuitive to have to make profiles for every frickin boil kettle size someone may have.
I typically ask what size boil kettle extract kit customers have so that I print them out a brew day sheet that has the correct volumes, etc.

The last straw for me was realizing that you can't copy/paste hops in the recipe designer and it really slows me down on a daily basis.

Of course I'm conflicted because so many people have beersmith so it's hard to stray from the standard.

I've been a long time Beer Tools Pro user and I just got 2.0 and haven't evaluated it yet. If they tried to get too complicated just like beersmith, I may just use online tools.

I like BeerSmith: perhaps I am just not sophisticated enough to comprehend it's deficiencies. It works for me and people seem to like my beer. I think I will keep using this "clunky" software that helps me make good beer.

Each it's own, but I'm not a fan. As a developer, I know that site could have been done better

Yes, it's very clunky, so much so that I couldn't deal with the bad UX design and interface anymore and switched to BeerTools Pro and never looked back.

That said anyone want to buy a license of Beersmith since I own both now?

It's pretty much the opposite of "user friendly".
It's either "user antagonistic" or "user belligerent", or both.
And I use it in spite of itself...

Cheers!

I'm currently trying out Brewer's Friend's online cloud-based version to see how it differs from BeerSmith.

Pros (so far):
* Has a cloud-based inventory system so you can see what you're low on when you're standing there in the LHBS
* Cheaper than BeerSmith

Cons (so far):
* No field for maltster, so American 2-row is just American 2-row
* No fields for prices of things, so if you're brewing with a partner you're going to have to manually figure out the costs of batches
* Scaling batches isn't as slick as BeerSmith
* Adjusting color / IBU's / OG isn't easy like it is in BeerSmith

I like the idea of cloud-based brewing, but Brewer's Friend has a ways to go with functionality.

McKnuckle said:

Software, however, doesn't have to be complex... get over that.



Personally I'm fine with the nature of brewing.

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Software not complicated? Apparently none of you use any Microsoft/Windows products!
BeerSmith is a POC!

govner1 said:

Software not complicated? Apparently none of you use any Microsoft/Windows products!
BeerSmith is a POC!

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Lol, u like it, I get that. Some of us don't. And it's not cause of apple. In fact I won't touch the products. On top of that, I develop in Microsoft. That's not the reason.

Love beersmith. Really hope ver 3 takes it all cloud based or I may consider brewers friend.

I am new at all grain but I found BeerSmith to give me the info I needed easier than brewers friend so I am using BeerSmith. UX is clunky, feels like the 90s. Really hate that I can have multiple copies of a recipe open at the same time and can accidentally overwrite my tweaks if I close the stale one last. Would really like it to be cloud based and easy to sync with mobile.