Problem with Auto Siphon/Dry Hopping Strategy

I dry hopped in a carboy. And I planned to siphon out with a small muslin cloth (essentially a hop bag) over the end of my auto siphon into my bottling bucket.

I ran into a major problem--which was that the resistance from the muslin bag overcame the seal inside the cylinder of the auto siphon.

What happened then was that the pull of the siphon started pulling air into the beer that was entering the siphon.

It took me long enough to figure out what was happening that in the meantime, the beer got pretty significantly aerated. Bummer.

I'm still going to condition it, see how it tastes.

And next time just prime a standard siphon--which would prevent the problem.

Just thought I'd share the mishap.

I had the same problem. It worked fine until the hops hit the siphon tip and then it just stopped immediately. Lost a gallon of beer.

My solution is to tie a nylon hop bag around the hose end in the bottling bucket to catch any loose hop particles that come through. I also only use pellets, no problems since.

Thanks for the advice. That sounds like it'll work better than what I was thinking.

It's also good to know I'm not alone! Thanks again.

I wouldn't be so sure that the beer got aerated. If I'm understanding what you're describing, I don't think you were pulling air past the seal.

IMO, it's more likely that the muslin bag was causing CO2 to come out of solution as the beer past through the bag material and that was the gas you were seeing in the line.

I've seen this with a hop bag over a standard racking cane and enough gas entered the cane (from the submerged end) that it kept stopping the siphon. Pain in the ass.

I hope you're right.

I was actually worried about what you're describing... so I cut the muslin really pretty small. It was just large enough to cover the end of the cane with about 2 - 3 inches of slack. Then I rubberbanded it, and pulled it taught.

It was also pretty far submerged.

Given both of those things--I fear the only source of this amount of gas (which was really quite a bit) seemed like it had to be the gas above the seal in the siphon.

Anyhow. Again. I hope you're right. And I appreciate the post.

I was pretty psyched about the beer. It's an Imperial all-Centennial IPA. I got my fingers crossed that it doesn't taste like cardboard.

I think it was brew your own suggested using a new copper scratch pad as a filter at the end of the autosiphon. I done it once and did not have a problem.

i dont see how an autosiphon can draw in air if the intake is below the surface of the liquid. its not magic. sounds like its not the bag but pilot error.

Maybe I'll try the copper scratch pad. Thanks for the suggestion.

There's a big hollow cylinder of air that runs down the autosiphon all the way to the bottom--even when submerged. It's separated from the beer entering the racking cane inside by a circular seal. So no magic required.

It was pilot error--but it was as I described.

milwaukee...if you want to test whether what you fear is even possible (i.e. air getting past the seal), here's an easy test. Put the siphon in a bucket of water, get a siphon going and then obstruct the intake with a plastic baggie or something.

If air gets sucked in past the seal, then you "might" have something to worry about. On the other hand, if your siphon just stops, as I suspect it will, it was CO2 outgassing that was getting into your siphon line, as described in the above post.

Let us know how it goes, I'm curious.

I think it was someone on here that suggested it, but I bought some nylon panty-hose, cut the foot off, sterilized it, rubber-banded it on the siphon and used that to filter out the hops. It made a wonderfully large bag to catch the ridiculous quantity of hops I used in my Pliny the Elder clone, and I was thoroughly surprised at how well it strained the beer.

Cheap, readily/widely available, worked very well. You just need to give the hops a place to fall away from the end of the tube.

@Binaryvisions. That's a good suggestion too. That thought had crossed my mind--but it kind worried me putting dyed nylon in sanitizer... just wondering what might leach. Still though. I appreciate the suggestion. Maybe I'm being too paranoid.

@Buzzcraft. Per your suggestion, I'm going to run that experiment this weekend and get back to you guys back with the results.

I'm in same boat I must bottle a dry hopped beer this weekend....I used pellets but I see the hop material on top and some in beer. Good suggestions....

I'm not sure which route I'll take but must find way to get hops material out.

milwaukee said:

@Binaryvisions. That's a good suggestion too. That thought had crossed my mind--but it kind worried me putting dyed nylon in sanitizer... just wondering what might leach. Still though. I appreciate the suggestion. Maybe I'm being too paranoid.

Click to expand...

I was concerned as well so I cut up some of the material and let it soak overnight in my regular cleaning concentration of Star San to see what would happen. It was none the worse for wear in the morning and the Star San was still clear (no evidence of dye) so I went ahead and used it. I wrung it out very well after I sanitized it.

I don't know if it matters, but I bought the regular "flesh" colored pantyhose, the cheapest ones that Wal-Mart had. I think they were $1.99.

Boy there's a phrase I never thought I'd say!

@BuzzCraft. On the experiment. I ran it to be sure the problem was what I thought it was.

It was.

The internal seal in the autosiphon... this would be the rubber disc separating the liquid from the column of air that surrounds the cane inside the siphon... that seal could be overpowered and leak air if there was something obstructing the flow in.

As you might expect... the problem was also affected by the force of the siphon (height/tube length).

And. Sadly. The beer--which tasted super for about two weeks--is starting to taste oxidized. Oh well. New batch today. Won't make the same mistake. Thanks to everyone for all the advice and techniques.

bummer.....sorry to hear that. i'm surprised, but i looked closely at the seal on my autosiphon and can see how it would happen if the siphon is strong enough. another one to chalk up to experience, i guess....too bad it came at the expense of good beer. drink fast!

smizak said:

I had the same problem. It worked fine until the hops hit the siphon tip and then it just stopped immediately. Lost a gallon of beer.

My solution is to tie a nylon hop bag around the hose end in the bottling bucket to catch any loose hop particles that come through. I also only use pellets, no problems since.

Click to expand...

So tying it to the end of the hose doesn't cause any oxidation problems? I tried it on the auto siphon end this past weekend and bailed after about a gallon because of bubbles/gaps in the hose.

Also, do you ever need more than one bag? I've got an IPA ready to bottle this weekend with quite a bit of hops (pellets) in it - I can easily see it clogging the bag (I dryhopped and didn't use hop bags or filtering for the original hops).

It hasn't been mentioned, but how do you store your autosyphon after cleaning? Assembled or apart?

Store it apart. The seal will "relax" at room temp versus being squeezed all the time when stored inside the tube.

And be sure to wet both pieces prior to assembly...it acts as a lubricant.

You may also look at not pushing the inner cane in all the way to the bottom.

Every once in a while I see some air bubbles then pull it back out about 1-2 inches and they disappear.

HenryKDuff said:

So tying it to the end of the hose doesn't cause any oxidation problems? I tried it on the auto siphon end this past weekend and bailed after about a gallon because of bubbles/gaps in the hose.

Also, do you ever need more than one bag? I've got an IPA ready to bottle this weekend with quite a bit of hops (pellets) in it - I can easily see it clogging the bag (I dryhopped and didn't use hop bags or filtering for the original hops).

Click to expand...

Tie it so the bag has plenty of room to catch stuff and not clog. Don't snug it up to the end of the hose. It has never seemed to affect my siphon at all, as it's on the end of the hose, not the siphon tip.

smizak said:

Tie it so the bag has plenty of room to catch stuff and not clog. Don't snug it up to the end of the hose. It has never seemed to affect my siphon at all, as it's on the end of the hose, not the siphon tip.

Click to expand...

I have successfully used a similar method that relies on the same principle.

I sanitize a big nylon paint strainer bag (the same ones people use for giant "hop baskets" hanging above the boil kettle) by scrunching it down into a pitcher of Starsan for a while to sanitize, then shake it out until most of the star-san is gone. Insert the auto-siphon (with the tip attachment) into the paint strainer bag, then shove the whole thing down into the dry hopped carboy and siphon as usual.

The folds and excess material surrounding the siphon inlet give plenty of surface area for beer to flow through without clogging on the hop debris. Have never had a bubble problem using this method.