Trying to make the jump! Modified BIAB?

I've been at this long enough (and drank the last bottle of my first brew last night... I think I understand "extract twang" now!) to want to take the plunge into all grain brewing.

Complicating matters is my budget (still in grad school, so not much cash to splash around) and looming move to another state in May (I'd rather not add two or three new vessels to the already-large list of things to go). I've been reading up in BIAB, and I think I might be able to make it work with my current equipment, but only if I modify the process somewhat.

As I understand it, BIAB developed a means to get into all grain brewing with only a single vessel. Great for those with space or budget constraints and all that, but ire requires a large boil kettle, the single vessel needs to be able to hold grains, water for mashing and water for sparging. The problem I have is that I only have a eight gallon kettle, and aim for about seven gallons pre-boil to account for loss and all that.

That said, is there any reason that I couldn't mash in a my kettle and then remove the grains to a bucket for rinsing, which could then be added to the kettle? It seems like it would work, but I'm not completely certain about all the science behind all grain brewing.

Thanks all, and cheers!

What you describe is pretty much what I do. BIAB on the stovetop. I only do 2.5g batches. Mash in a 5g brewpot. Then remove the bag and squeeze it into the pot. Then place the bag into a slightly smaller pot and add sparge water. Remove the bag, squeeze, pour into the first pot and repeat. Then I bring it all up to a boil and continue. I get around 70-75% efficiency and I brew high gravity ales (but again, only 2.5g at a time).

As an FYI- It seems that 3 gallon batches are common for people doing brew in a bag. Northern Brewer includes a 7 gallon kettle in their 3 gallon biab equipment kit and claim that this volume "eliminates boil over worries for 3 gallon batches".

I haven't done BIAB yet, but figured that if you were planning on doing the standard 3 gallon batches, that your current kettle seems a-ok.

I just watched an episode of Brewing TV about BIAB and it has piqued my interest: http://brewingtv.com/episodes/2012/3/2/brewing-tv-episode-54-jakes-got-a-brand-new-bag.html

An eight gallon kettle is plenty large for a five gallon BIAB. You could be making 1.070 gravity beers with a sparge in that! To drain the grains you don't need an elaborate hoist system. Just put them in a strainer over the boil kettle and let them drip for 15 minutes while you do other things. Pour your sparge water through the grain bag.

My little system, but you get the idea:
http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2012/09/biab.html

All you need to buy is a paint strainer bag:
5-gallon paint strainer

And maybe a large strainer or collendar to fit accross your kettle:
8" Strainer

Yup, that totally works, it's how I do all my beers. I have a 7.5 gallon turkey fryer I mash and boil in, and an 8 gallon pot I sparge in. I can heat my sparge water on the stove while I'm mashing. You get the added benefit of increased efficiency vs full-volume BIAB.

That's similar to what I do, except I dunk sparge in a separate small kettle instead of a bucket. You also might try using a small cooler if you have trouble keeping sparge temps up for about 10 minutes.

FYI, I get about 85% efficiency using this method.

How large is your current pot?

WoodlandBrew said:

An eight gallon kettle is plenty large for a five gallon BIAB. You could be making 1.070 gravity beers with a sparge in that! To drain the grains you don't need an elaborate hoist system. Just put them in a strainer over the boil kettle and let them drip for 15 minutes while you do other things. Pour your sparge water through the grain bag.

My little system, but you get the idea:
http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2012/09/biab.html

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daksin said:

Yup, that totally works, it's how I do all my beers. I have a 7.5 gallon turkey fryer I mash and boil in, and an 8 gallon pot I sparge in. I can heat my sparge water on the stove while I'm mashing. You get the added benefit of increased efficiency vs full-volume BIAB.

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JeffersonJ said:

That's similar to what I do, except I dunk sparge in a separate small kettle instead of a bucket. You also might try using a small cooler if you have trouble keeping sparge temps up for about 10 minutes.

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Awesome news! WoodlandBrew, your setup is almost exactly what I'd envisioned. The only issue I have right now is that I only have one large pot which I can put on direct heat, hence the use of my bucket for one vessel. The more I think about it, though, the more convenient a second kettle sounds... guess I'll look into that in the next couple weeks.

newnick said:

How large is your current pot?

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Eight gallons, about 15" across and some more inches deeper.

Thanks all!

I use a modified BIAB for PM. I have a 5 gallon brew kettle and my next largest pot is a 2 gallon stockpot. Usually, I mash in the 5 gallon brew kettle, drain the grains using a colander that sits stably on top of it, and then set the colander+grains in a large mixing bowl so it catches any late run-off. Then, I pour the "first runnings" from the large kettle into the 2 gallon pot. I try to make sure that I get < 1.8 gal of runnings, but if I had to add water to adjust temperature, I'll sometimes use a second smaller pot for the extra. Then I fill the kettle with sparge water and heat.

This is annoying because it takes a lot of extra time---I can't start heating the sparge water ahead of time. It also makes it hard to batch sparge at a chosen temperature because the grains and absorbed water cool off during the 15 minutes or so that it takes to heat the sparge water. But it works.

To get around this, I sometimes adjust my volumes so I can heat the sparge water in my 2 gallon pot and then pour that over the grains in the colander instead of dunk sparging. That seems to work just about as well, though I haven't been carefully measuring efficiency.

Basically, the point is to mash the grains and then rinse out the sugar. Any arrangement you can come up with to accomplish this will work. It's not rocket surgery!

C38368 said:

Awesome news! WoodlandBrew, your setup is almost exactly what I'd envisioned. The only issue I have right now is that I only have one large pot which I can put on direct heat, hence the use of my bucket for one vessel. The more I think about it, though, the more convenient a second kettle sounds... guess I'll look into that in the next couple weeks.

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Since you won't be boiling in it, I would think an aluminum kettle would work fine for your secondary kettle to keep costs down.

I kind of came to my current setup by accident. Like most folks, I started out using a 24-quart kettle for partial-boil extract/PM batches. When I wanted to full-boil batches, I got my 8-gallon kettle and came up the strategy of using the smaller kettle to dunk sparge. It took a couple batches to get it down and figure out my efficiency, but I love my current setup. It's quick, easy, highly efficient, and I can do it on my stove top with a full-boil. I typically do all-grain batches up to about 1.060, and then I add a pound or two of DME for larger beers. Not that I can't do larger AG beers with my setup, I just find it less cumbersome to adjust with DME and I dare anyone to taste the difference.

JeffersonJ said:

Not that I can't do larger AG beers with my setup, I just find it less cumbersome to adjust with DME and I dare anyone to taste the difference.

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I'll take that dare. Should I PM you my address to ship the beers to compare?

C38368 said:

Awesome news! WoodlandBrew, your setup is almost exactly what I'd envisioned. The only issue I have right now is that I only have one large pot which I can put on direct heat, hence the use of my bucket for one vessel. The more I think about it, though, the more convenient a second kettle sounds... guess I'll look into that in the next couple weeks.


Thanks all!

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I would recommend getting a second kettle. I have a 7.5 gal. kettle I use to mash in (usually for 60 min. depending on the recipe) and I have a 5 gal kettle that I sparge in (usually 20 minutes). I've been hitting 75%-80% efficiency every time using this two vessel system!

Though I've only done 4 BIAB batches, I have to say I hate the 5 gallon pain strainer bags that's been recommended here. I tried them on my first two batches with mixed results. The Phat Tyre clone turned out pretty good, but the multi-grain red I tried has turned out to be my worst batch. A lot of it is that the 5 gallon bags are just too small for my 10 gallon kettle. I'm looking at paying $11 for two 24x24 inch bags from Northern Brewer compared to the much smaller 2 pack 5 gallon bags from Home Depot. To me, the $6.5 difference is worth it.

Yesfan said:

Though I've only done 4 BIAB batches, I have to say I hate the 5 gallon pain strainer bags that's been recommended here. I tried them on my first two batches with mixed results. The Phat Tyre clone turned out pretty good, but the multi-grain red I tried has turned out to be my worst batch. A lot of it is that the 5 gallon bags are just too small for my 10 gallon kettle. I'm looking at paying $11 for two 24x24 inch bags from Northern Brewer compared to the much smaller 2 pack 5 gallon bags from Home Depot. To me, the $6.5 difference is worth it.

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Get a yard of voille from walmart for $3. Cheaper and you can make the bag the correct size for your kettle.

+1 to using a bag that fits the tun.

Sorry if you were mislead about the paint strainer bag.

5 gallon paint strainer bags are great for kettles that are shaped like 5 gallon paint buckets.

Yesfan said:

Though I've only done 4 BIAB batches, I have to say I hate the 5 gallon pain strainer bags that's been recommended here. I tried them on my first two batches with mixed results. The Phat Tyre clone turned out pretty good, but the multi-grain red I tried has turned out to be my worst batch. A lot of it is that the 5 gallon bags are just too small for my 10 gallon kettle. I'm looking at paying $11 for two 24x24 inch bags from Northern Brewer compared to the much smaller 2 pack 5 gallon bags from Home Depot. To me, the $6.5 difference is worth it.

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I picked up a bag from my LHBS, not sure how much I paid, but it wasn't any more than $5 or $6. It's probably similar to the ones you've got, because it's far larger than my 5gal kettle (which is fine, I just bunch up the sides and clip them with binder clips). I've reused it about a dozen times now, so the cost is effectively $0 when averaged over the batches.

I used a paint strainer bag for steeping strawberries in a fermentor. Not sure if I'd do that again, though, I'm a bit leery of using something not marketed for use in food products (especially in hot or boiling water).

Thanks guys. I don't look at it as mislead (sorry if my post seemed like a complaint, it wasn't), but just something I've learned. I'll use the paint strainer bags on some smaller batches. They do fit great on my 5 gallon kettle.

MMJfan said:

I would recommend getting a second kettle. I have a 7.5 gal. kettle I use to mash in (usually for 60 min. depending on the recipe) and I have a 5 gal kettle that I sparge in (usually 20 minutes). I've been hitting 75%-80% efficiency every time using this two vessel system!

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+1 to this, I made 14 batches this way before moving to a 3 vessel system.