Loss to Mash Tun

Hi,
I'm new in brewing so I'm little confused about amount of water loss to mash tun.
All recipes give amount of water for mash in and amount for sparging water, but some amount of water will be sucked by the malt. So my question is do the amount of water given in the recipe is equal to the amount of the wort which will be collected at the end (Loss to Mash Tun will be substituted) or amount of the water is fixed and Loss to Mash Tun is part of the amount of water in the recipe (and it should be sucked by the wort).

http://www.castlemalting.com/Default.asp?N=Presentations&ID=25&Language=English

Here is the link to Castle Malting (maltinghous) at the end of their brochure a recipes are given for 100 litre of water (70 L for mash in and 30 L for sparging). How much wort will be collected according to this recipe?

Recipes are typically given to include the loss to grain absorption. Generally (depending on many environmental factors) loss to grain absorption is 0.12 gallons per pound of grain or about 1 liter per kilogram of grain (if my math is correct)

No. Every system is different, and therefore you need to calculate and subtract the losses. Amount of grain also effects this, as well as things like leaf vs dry hops. You should find some way of calculating it and over time, you'll eventually dial it in.

Agreed with Brooklyn, recipes usually do account for grain absorption, but not for mash tun losses, I.e. Wort left behind because it can't exit the drain, because it's lower than the outlet, etc.

So...

The size of the batch determines the amount of wort you need to boil. I do 5 US gallon batches. Here are a few of the factors that determine you water required.

1) Approximately 10% to 20% (depending on who you ask) of the strike water added to the grains is absorbed by the grain and is considered a loss. For example, for a 5 gallon batch of an IPA I'd have ~ 10 pounds of grain. I use the 20% loss number and a water to grist ratio of 1.5 quarts of water per pound of grain. So, for my example;
10 pounds of grain x 1.5 quarts per pound of grain = 15 quarts of strike water
(converting quarts to gallons) 15 quarts/4 quarts per gallon = 3.75 gallons of strike water
Now, to determine the amount of water absorbed by the grain;
10 pounds of grain x .20 gallons lost per pound of grain = 2 gallons absorbed by the grain

So, when you start to sparge, only 1.75 gallons will come out of the mash tun from your initial strike water (3.75 gallons of strike water - 2 gallons absorbed = 1.75 gallons). You need to have enough sparge water to make your initial boil volume. Again, for example,

I use fairly large propane burners to boil my wort so I lose approximately 1 US gallon during a 60 minute boil. I also leave a little bit of liquid behind in my boil kettle when I drain the finished wort into my fermenter (to leave trub/break material behind). There's also a little bit of shrinkage when the wort cools from boiling to pitching temperatures (I think most calculators use ~ 4%). The bottom line is this:

My final wort volume is 5 US Gallons

Loss to boiling = 1 gallon
Loss to trub = .25 gallons
Loss to shrinkage = ..25 gallons

Total losses = 1.5 US gallons

So, to determine the amount of wort to boil, simply add the final volume desired to the total losses;

desired volume = 5 gallons
losses = 1.5 gallons

Initial boil volume = 5 gal + 1.5 gal = 6.5 gal (need to collect this from your MT - roughly speaking)

So, you only had 1.75 gal of runnings from your initial strike water, so;
6.5 gal needed - 1.75 gal available = 4.75 gal of sparge water needed.

Total water required for the brewing session is; initial strike water required + sparge water required.
3.75 gallons of strike water + 4.75 gallons of sparge water = 8.5 total gallons required.

Does that help?

So, if I understand correctly
wort collected = mash in - grain absorption (other mash tun losses) + sparging water

yup... pretty much.

Just make sure you determine how much wort you need to reach your final volume. The grain absorption is the primary loss to the MLT. The other losses occur in the boiling part of the process.

The only other thing we didn't talk about was efficiency (how much of the sugars you can get out of the grain). Unless you already know, I'd assume 70% for fly sparging (safe number).

pompeiisneaks said:

Agreed with Brooklyn, recipes usually do account for grain absorption, but not for mash tun losses, I.e. Wort left behind because it can't exit the drain, because it's lower than the outlet, etc.

Click to expand...

Ah right. Good point. I read "mash tun loss" and thought "grain absorption," but you are right that there are other places where loss can occur.

@ ThePearsonFam...so you make up the difference in your sparge water? I usually make up the difference in my strike water. Based on your example, know ing that I am going to only get 1.75 gal from the first runnings, I add an additional 1-2 gal to my initial sparge. Then I collect approx 3 gal. Then I do 2 batch sparges of 2 or 2.5 gal depending on what I need, to get to my final boil volume. So my question is, does it make a difference where you make up the losses? Does mashing with less water and sparging with more increase your efficiency? Do I get less efficiency mashing with more and sparging less?

Thank you very much

WildGingerBrewing said:

@ ThePearsonFam...so you make up the difference in your sparge water? I usually make up the difference in my strike water. Based on your example, know ing that I am going to only get 1.75 gal from the first runnings, I add an additional 1-2 gal to my initial sparge. Then I collect approx 3 gal. Then I do 2 batch sparges of 2 or 2.5 gal depending on what I need, to get to my final boil volume. So my question is, does it make a difference where you make up the losses? Does mashing with less water and sparging with more increase your efficiency? Do I get less efficiency mashing with more and sparging less?

Click to expand...

I'm not the person you directed the question at however, you'll get different answers depending on who you ask. Some will tell you that 1.25qt/lb is the magic number, others will tell you that is too thin.. yet others will say 1.5 and no more, yet others will go a LOT thinner (BIAB doing a full volume mash is MUCH thinner at 3qt/lb on average)

the main thing is.. do you get decent extraction? are you making great beer? if you answer yes to the latter that's all that really matters. you add the amount in grain absorption up front. If it works for YOU then keep on making beer

Yane said:

Thank you very much

Click to expand...

It's relatively way to figure out mlt and kettle losses (not counting grain absorption). Simply fill your vessels with water, then drain like you would drain during brewing. Once all the water is drained that can be drained, simply measure what is left.

Mysticmead said:

I'm not the person you directed the question at however, you'll get different answers depending on who you ask. Some will tell you that 1.25qt/lb is the magic number, others will tell you that is too thin.. yet others will say 1.5 and no more, yet others will go a LOT thinner (BIAB doing a full volume mash is MUCH thinner at 3qt/lb on average)

the main thing is.. do you get decent extraction? are you making great beer? if you answer yes to the latter that's all that really matters. you add the amount in grain absorption up front. If it works for YOU then keep on making beer

Click to expand...

Thanks. I guess that makes sense. I was just wondering if I could make my beer better by trying another process. I know that i lose 1.75 gal to absorption and tun loss. So when I calculate 1.25 qts per pound of grain I then add 1.75 gal to that number. That way I know what I am getting. I am brewing Sunday so I may try this different route just to see what happens.

nothing wrong with trying new things...

@ Wild Ginger Brewing...

It doesn't really matter where you make up the difference as long as you don't get too crazy with the water to grist ratio. I try to maintain my ratio at 1.5 (or so). Adding more water to the strike water thins the mash out. The rule of thumb is, keep the water to grist ratio somewhere between 1.0 to 2.0 (depends on the source, personal preference and brewing methods used). Water treatment will also be influenced by the water added. Not everyone treats their water, but if you do, consider using TH's EZ Water Calculator. You'll be able to determine water additions for the strike water and boil kettle additions (accounted for in the "sparge water" but I add to the boil kettle, not the sparge water).

The water calculator can be found here: http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/

touch off topic but an important factor to consider when determining where to add your water.

Thanks!