Pointless to go A-G?

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RCBIV

RCBIV

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OK, maybe the headline is a tad misleading, but I was wondering:

I've been doing PM batches and I'd like to go A-G. However, in my current set-up and situation, I can't do full boils. My brew kettle is 5 gallons evenly, so that's tough to begin with, but even if I had a 10g pot I'm not sure my burner could do it (it seems weak, to me). And if you do A-G, are you always doing full boils? Would it be worth it to do partial boils that are A-G?

Let's just assume I can't get a turkey fryer and I can't brew outside. Because, in a way, I can't. So if I have to do stove-top, is A-G/partial boils sort of pointless?

Once I get out of this apartment, I'd like to make the move to outside/full boils/etc., but for now this is what I got.

Thanks in advance, ladies and gentlemen.
 
I have looked at this, mysef, an my conclusion is that until I can get to full boils, I'll stay at partial mash.
 
No rule says yiu have to do five gallons. I do 3-gal all grain on my stove all the time.
 
I think the benefits of a full boil will outweigh the benefits of going AG. But, that's not what you asked...

I used to do full boils in a 8.5 gal aluminium pot on my electric coil stovetop all the time. I also did AG in my apartment. You could always do BIAB (Brew in a bag) in your 5 gallon pot and only make a 3 gallon batch.
 
I brew with a 35 qt turkey fryer on the stove!
823420737468xl.jpg


You can also split your batch up into two smaller kettles.

I sparge super slow. I start my boil with 1 gallon of wort and I get that rolling really good and then I add the next gallon.
 
i have a 32 liter stock pot that's 13.75" across and it covers both my gas burners. i can get full boils no prob with lid off. something to think about if your going to take the plunge and get a bigger pot. measure you're burners and make sure it can cover both
 
It's not pointless to go to AG if you can't do a full boil, but you'll always be handicapping your brews by doing a partial boil. I would strongly suggest making smaller batches so you can go to a full boil - then you can do extract, partial, or AG, whichever floats your boat. You can make an extract that tastes every bit as good as an AG brew, but you can't make partial boil taste like a full boil.
 
I agree about scaling down and doing smaller batches. I was doing 5 gallon batches for a while and decided to scale down and do 2-3 gallon batches. I have more of a selection on hand and when I find something that worked well, I make a bigger batch. Plus I get to brew much more often!
 
I had this same dilemma and decided to go AG with smaller batches (3.5-4 gallons). I had to take it one step more and go with a split boil since I am set up on a kitchen electric range with 3 gallon kettles. I started doing no sparge partial boil but quickly decided i liked the split boil better. It works great for me. I have a post on my blog (linked below in by signature) about my setup and process. I've been meaning to rewrite it since I'm not sure I am sufficiently clear about what i do and why I do it, but it might be worth taking a look.
 
cadillacandy said:
I agree about scaling down and doing smaller batches. I was doing 5 gallon batches for a while and decided to scale down and do 2-3 gallon batches. I have more of a selection on hand and when I find something that worked well, I make a bigger batch. Plus I get to brew much more often!
Click to expand...

This!
On hand now I have a lawnmower beer, a Kolsch, an experimental IPA, another lawnmower beer, a Pliny clone, an amber, and SWMBO slayer. Since there's only a case-ish of each, I'm not overwhelmed by huge amounts of beer.

(Only a homebrewers would say 7 cases is not too much).
 
Revvy made an interesting post regarding this same thing due to his stoves limitations. Like extract, you can do partial boils and add top off if you really want to go up to a 5 gallon batch. The hop utilization does change with the boil size so make sure you take that into account with good software. Or like everyone else says, brew a bunch of smaller batches for experimentation. I beleive either way will work. If it were me, I would try both ways and see if I can tell a difference and if so, what I prefer.
 
I've been thinking about the same thing. I do extract and partial mash at the moment and have been thinking about giving all grain a go but I'm not to keen on shelling out big bucks for equipment. So I'm thinking that if I go AG, I'll get a big pot and a big bag and do BIAB. Of course there is still the issue of a heat source capable of handling the volume. So after searching through the forum yesterday, I found threads about heat sticks. You can find info about heat sticks here:
http://www.3d0g.net/brewing/heatstick

So I'm thinking I would either make a heat stick or install an element directly in the pot. In NZ we're on 240v so I can go up to a 2200 Watt element just plugged into a standard gfi outlet which I have next to my kitchen. And that combined with my electric ceramic top stove should be enough to get a good boil. From what I've read with 120v you can go up to 1500W in a standard outlet, which combined with your stove should still be enough.

So you can go full size batch stovetop AG with a bare minimum of equipment:
  • big pot
  • big bag (home made)
  • heatstick (home made)
 
best thing i did was to go too AG..
here is mine
its a 62qt aluminum pot..
just under 8 gallons!! sorry, i dont know what was on tv...:mug:

53536d1332301418-wort-not-wanting-boil-bridge-burner.jpg

53537d1332301418-wort-not-wanting-boil-burner.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Great responses, everyone. I'll probably go through the thread again and pick out certain responses one by one to get specific feedback in a bit, but my question at the moment is on smaller batches.

I have a 6.5g carboy and two 5g carboys. If I were to do 3.5g batches — go A-G and do full boils that way — am I going to have to get smaller carboys? Or could I use these still?

Thanks!
 
TalkingGoats said:
I brew with a 35 qt turkey fryer on the stove!
823420737468xl.jpg
Click to expand...

I hope that you are opening all the windows! This is a great way to kill yourself.
Search carbon monoxide poisoning!

JonM said:
(Only a homebrewers would say 7 cases is not too much).
Click to expand...

Corrected for you:
(Only a homebrewer would say 7 cases is nowhere near enough!)
 
RCBIV said:
Great responses, everyone. I'll probably go through the thread again and pick out certain responses one by one to get specific feedback in a bit, but my question at the moment is on smaller batches.

I have a 6.5g carboy and two 5g carboys. If I were to do 3.5g batches — go A-G and do full boils that way — am I going to have to get smaller carboys? Or could I use these still?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Those should be fine for primary fermentation. If you wanted to use a secondary though, you would be better off getting a smaller carboy to minimize headspace. Not many beers require a secondary however, so you might not need anything more.
 
JLem said:
I had this same dilemma and decided to go AG with smaller batches (3.5-4 gallons). I had to take it one step more and go with a split boil since I am set up on a kitchen electric range with 3 gallon kettles. I started doing no sparge partial boil but quickly decided i liked the split boil better. It works great for me. I have a post on my blog (linked below in by signature) about my setup and process. I've been meaning to rewrite it since I'm not sure I am sufficiently clear about what i do and why I do it, but it might be worth taking a look.
Click to expand...

Can you point me to the post where you describe your setup? You've posted quite a bit, so I'm not quite sure how far back to go... (Also: Love your blog. I've been reading it for a while now.)
 
John Lackey's a bum! Let's Go Red Sox! I had to make the tough decision of purchasing a 2 keg setup, or piece together equipment for AG. The keg won out, as I am still new to the process and am tired of bottling by myself.
 
RCBIV said:
Please do. I've seen so many recipes from you that I want to steal... (And you're also a Sox fan, which makes you good in my book.)
Click to expand...

Steal away! And yes, I am a lifer with the Sox...sometimes, like last year, much to my chagrin. Not sure how I feel about this year's team - I want to like them, but I get a feeling I'm not going to.
 
Why can't you go AG and do a partial boil? The hop additions might have to be changed, but you certainly can make a wort at higher SG than you are shooting for and dilute it. Make the grain bill for a 5 gal. batch, mash with the appropriate volume and sparge with as much as will conveniently fit in your boil kettle. When all is finished, top up with water to get your 5 gal.
 
ChuckO said:
Why can't you go AG and do a partial boil? The hop additions might have to be changed, but you certainly can make a wort at higher SG than you are shooting for and dilute it. Make the grain bill for a 5 gal. batch, mash with the appropriate volume and sparge with as much as will conveniently fit in your boil kettle. When all is finished, top up with water to get your 5 gal.
Click to expand...

You can totally do this, but the difficulty is with figuring out how to mash/sparge so that you end up with a sufficiently high gravity yet still keep your volumes to what you can manage.
 
You have all kinds of options. First off, do you have any idea how much weight your stovetop can handle? Some of the cheaper models will bend or crack with more than a few gallons of weight on one burner.

You could do smaller batches and BIAB right now.

You could brew a higher gravity beer and dilute with top of water.

There are several calculators online that can tell you how much water to add to your chilled beer to reach the desired gravity.
 
I've done stovetop partial mashes with a 2-gallon rubbermaid cooler (as per the BYO article referenced) for about a year, allowing me to mash 4 pounds of grain. I recently added a second cooler so I can mash 8 pounds, allowing me to "almost" do all grain, with good success. For a 5 gallon recipe with a 1.050 OG I now have to add only about 1 pound of DME. I don't do full boils, though -- I boil about 3.75 gallons and top off with about 2 gallons.

http://***********/component/resource/article/511-countertop-partial-mashing
 
Why can't you do full boils on your stovetop? I think you are just making too big of batches. I do quite a few 2 1/2 gallon batches. Easy to manage, easy to boil, easy to cool and I get a case of bottles. Do them BIAB so your brew day isn't so long and you can do 2 or maybe even 3 in a single day, all right in your kitchen.
 
RM-MN said:
Why can't you do full boils on your stovetop? I think you are just making too big of batches. I do quite a few 2 1/2 gallon batches. Easy to manage, easy to boil, easy to cool and I get a case of bottles. Do them BIAB so your brew day isn't so long and you can do 2 or maybe even 3 in a single day, all right in your kitchen.
Click to expand...

If you are doing 2 or 3 a day you can also just do the same recipe at 2-2.5 gallons twice in one day and blend it into one fermenter.
 
RM-MN said:
Why can't you do full boils on your stovetop? I think you are just making too big of batches. I do quite a few 2 1/2 gallon batches. Easy to manage, easy to boil, easy to cool and I get a case of bottles. Do them BIAB so your brew day isn't so long and you can do 2 or maybe even 3 in a single day, all right in your kitchen.
Click to expand...

I might give this a go. Do 2.5g batches, which would work nicely for my snug-fit 5g kettle. Boil off, approximately, a .5-1g in an hour?

I also like this idea because I can experiment more and do more recipes in a shorter amount of time. That's one of my favorite parts of this hobby, for sure.

I just wish I had more carboys...
 
RCBIV said:
OK, maybe the headline is a tad misleading, but I was wondering:

I've been doing PM batches and I'd like to go A-G. However, in my current set-up and situation, I can't do full boils. My brew kettle is 5 gallons evenly, so that's tough to begin with, but even if I had a 10g pot I'm not sure my burner could do it (it seems weak, to me). And if you do A-G, are you always doing full boils? Would it be worth it to do partial boils that are A-G?

Let's just assume I can't get a turkey fryer and I can't brew outside. Because, in a way, I can't. So if I have to do stove-top, is A-G/partial boils sort of pointless?
Click to expand...

Even with the capacity to use a turkey fryer, I just found myself brewing less and less when I was doing all grain, and almost none in winter months.
 
It's not "pointless", no. But the next step I'd take would not be AG brewing. I'd dial in my extract skills perfectly and use copious steeping grains and partial mashing. Then when "in a way" you find you "CAN" get a burner and a kettle..you'll have a really good conceptualization of what full mash AG is about, and your brew skills will enable you to succeed at it right away. Also, you will be severely limited in the gravity of beers you can pull off unless you scale your batch sizes way back like a couple of the original posters suggested.

JMHO.

But if you're hell bent on going ag, good luck to ya. Sounds messy to me...If you've got a SWMBO, I'd put the florist and nail salon on speed dial. Flowers and pedicures-all!
 
jbaysurfer said:
It's not "pointless", no. But the next step I'd take would be burner /kettle. You want me to assume you won't do that? LOL..then do whatever you were gonna do anyway ;-)
Click to expand...

Oh, trust me: I am working on alternatives to fixing these problems. I'm just unsure when I'll take action.
 
RCBIV said:
I might give this a go. Do 2.5g batches, which would work nicely for my snug-fit 5g kettle. Boil off, approximately, a .5-1g in an hour?
I also like this idea because I can experiment more and do more recipes in a shorter amount of time. That's one of my favorite parts of this hobby, for sure.

I just wish I had more carboys...
Click to expand...

Since my usual set up is 10g AG batches I've taken to doing 3gal stovetop batches in the original 5gal kettle from my first kit. 12 inches across, I boil off almost exactly 0.5gal/hr. My tun is a 3gallon drink cooler with a paint strainer bag so no modifications. It is fun to do these little batches, and definitely better than experimenting on 10gal.

As JLem pointed out your carboys should be fine for primary, but you also might want to check out the nearby doughnut shops. Did you know that Bavarian creme is conveniently packaged in white 4.5 gal food grade buckets with lids? Might score some free fermenters. :ban:
 

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