Price comparison: All grain vs Extract

If someone could either answer directly, or point me to a similar thread, I would appreciate it. I'm just curious, specifically if possible (with actual prices), what the costs are for each method. I went to my LHBS on Saturday and noticed that the 3.3 lb LME cans were around $15 each. I want to say I remember 1 lb of dry grain was around $5, but I can't remember for sure. I got overwhelmed by all the prices and trying to find everything my recipe called for, so I just bought a premade BElgian Tripel kit for $45. It seemed that if I was gonna make my recipe (Ommegang Hennepin clone) it would have been around $60 for everything. I can post the recipe if necessary, but Im really just curious about price comparisons, because I am thinking the sooner I can start brewing AG, the better.

Pound of grain $.50 to $1.00 per pound
Ounce of hops $.50 to $1.00 per ounce

AG I can brew almost anything for less than $20... including yeast.

Now the equipment... well....

I can make a 5 gallon batch of 1.080 OG beer with 65 IBUS for about $18 WITH liquid yeast.

Grain is gonna be cheaper than extract hands down (grain doesnt have to go to a mash and condensing process by the malster). The difference between the two will vary by where you get your supplies from, and whether or not you buy in bulk.

A 50 pound bag of grain can run you anywhere from 35-65 bucks on average and its enough grain to make roughly 5-8 batches (25-40 gallons of beer). Again that depend on your recipe.. (Blonde Ale takes a little less grain than say Dead Guy Ale)

I think if you're serious and dedicated to the hobby, investing in equipment for AG definitely pays off. I know virtually all my equip has paid for itself in the AG savings.

Just as an example

http://www.brewmasterswarehouse.com/product/0101475/briess-2row-brewers-malt

2-row pale malt for 1.15 a #. If you buy bulk (50#) through a group purchase, it even gets cheaper. All grain is cheaper in grain as opposed to extract. It's the initial purchase of the equipment, (the same as kegging over bottling). I can make a pale ale recipe for less than 20 bucks. I have washed yeast in the fridge, bulk hops in the freezer, a mill, and alot of grain in bins in the 'man/brew room'. So once you get past the initial cost it's all gravy....of course then you'll just find something else to 'improve your brewery' and sink money into. Shhhhhh.....don't tell the SWMBO.

This depends...

are you a hardcore homebrewer that begs your local brewery for cheap grain? Do you buy hops from the farm (hops direct) in bulk?

OR....are you paying really high prices for individual ingredients from your LHBS?

If you are paying $.80 per oz for hops and $.65 per LB for 2-row ...you can brew $12 house pale ales very easily. However, if you are paying $4 per oz for hops and $2.50 per LB of 2-row at your LHBS....well, the math is pretty easy there.

EX.

I pay $.49 a pound for 2-row in bulk
I pay $.65 a pound for Pilsner, Vienna, Munich...
I pay $.73 a pound for MO

Of course I can go to my LHBS and buy them all for $2 a pound, I just choose not to.

"OR....are you paying really high prices for individual ingredients from your LHBS?"

I would assume thats what I would be doing initially. I am very new to homebrewing(since christmas) and have only done two 5 gal batches. I don't really have the experience of where to look, or what to get from who. I assume I'll learn as I go. I have a friend who recommended I go straight into AG for certain reasons, and I dont completely disagree with him, I just wanted to get my feet wet before I try to dive in. But it certainly seems like that way to go, and I am enthusiastic enough about it to make the step to AG. Seeing the price comparisons in front of me is enough to convince me I think. So when you buy these huge bags of grain, do you have one specific recipe in mind to use all the grain on or do you just store it until you have a need for it? Do you buy a bunch of different grains all at once? If those questions are confusing, I guess I'm asking how many ingredients do you keep on hand at any given time and how fast does it get used?

Same here. My LHBS charges about 2/lb for grain. And the worst part is there discount for buying a 55lb sack from them is like $1-2. Coordinate a bulk buy with some friends from a malt distributor and end up paying as little as $0.40/lb for your malt.

Light DME can be had for under $2.50/lb shipped if you buy in bulk from the wholesaler. In the store it's about $3.50/lb

mychalg9 said:

"OR....are you paying really high prices for individual ingredients from your LHBS?"

I would assume thats what I would be doing initially. I am very new to homebrewing(since christmas) and have only done two 5 gal batches. I don't really have the experience of where to look, or what to get from who. I assume I'll learn as I go. I have a friend who recommended I go straight into AG for certain reasons, and I dont completely disagree with him, I just wanted to get my feet wet before I try to dive in. But it certainly seems like that way to go, and I am enthusiastic enough about it to make the step to AG. Seeing the price comparisons in front of me is enough to convince me I think. So when you buy these huge bags of grain, do you have one specific recipe in mind to use all the grain on or do you just store it until you have a need for it? Do you buy a bunch of different grains all at once? If those questions are confusing, I guess I'm asking how many ingredients do you keep on hand at any given time and how fast does it get used?

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Brewmaster's Warehouse is pretty cheap and has $7 flat rate shipping (if my memory is correct). Ordering online isn't as cheap as buying your grain wholesale, but you'll still be able to brew cheaper than using extract kits (especially if you're using $45 extract kits).

Cost was a factor for me when deciding to go all-grain, but not the main factor. I went all-grain because I am in love with this hobby, and all-grain offers a much deeper experience. For me, more work = more enjoyment.

If you like quick and easy brew days and you're the type that enjoys drinking the beer more than making it, just stick with the extract brews. If you are crazy like me (and many HBT'rs) and you want to immerse yourself in every aspect of beer production, go all grain and never look back.

"Coordinate a bulk buy with some friends from a malt distributor and end up paying as little as $0.40/lb for your malt"

Good tip. I know a few other guys that Homebrew so this could work

" I went all-grain because I am in love with this hobby, and all-grain offers a much deeper experience."

Yeah so far I am just trying to learn as much as I feel like I need to to move to the next step. I really would like to be able to make my own recipes. I love making extract kits even, but I feel like there is something missing, like I'm cheating or something hehe.

mychalg9 said:

"Coordinate a bulk buy with some friends from a malt distributor and end up paying as little as $0.40/lb for your malt"

Good tip. I know a few other guys that Homebrew so this could work

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Dude, you live in IL, you dont need a "group" Go to MidCountry Malt near Chicago and you can buy a single 55# sack of 2-row for $27... no need to put together a large order. You can buy anything there for under $.73 a pound basically, in single sacks. You dont need a group.

Awesome tip Pol!! Once I understand what I need I'll check that place out

i feel the same way. like its cheating using kits.
i have been brewing for about a year and a half and i have done mostly kits, then i started using recipies found on this forum.

my most recent brews have been using left over hops and grains that are close to the recipies i fine on here. i make changes to recipies using the recipe as a guide. i compare the aa of the hops and such. i figure i'll end up with a similar, but not the same beer.

mychalg9 said:

Awesome tip Pol!! Once I understand what I need I'll check that place out

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You are welcome, they are awesome... and they deal in higher quality malt than you will find at many LHBS...

The cost savings is the difference in price between bulk extract and bulk grain (extract brewers can buy in bulk and pay the same price for hops and yeast) less the price difference between extract equipment and AG equipment which can several hundred dollars up to many thousands of dollars.

You should look in the recipe database on this website. Find some styles of beer that you like. You will find that all of them use a base grain (which in many cases that is US 2-Row). This will make up somewhere around 80-90% of your grain bill. Example of EdWorts haus pale:
Grain Bill
8 lbs. 2-Row Pale Malt
2 lbs. Vienna Malt
0.5 lb. Crystal 10L Malt


So, buy the base grains at the place the Pol directed you to, and the specialty grains at your LHBS as you put together a recipe. Remember that you will of course need a grain mill, and a scale to weigh the grains.

You are welcome, they are awesome... and they deal in higher quality malt than you will find at many LHBS...

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I am thinking about making a trip up there with my trailer in tow actually. So anyone in Indy needs any grain this will be a cheap ticket.

Lately I've been enjoying Oatmeal Stouts, Brown ales, Belgian Tripels. I pulled a couple of recipes from Sam Calagiones book Extreme Brewing that I wanted to try out, and also a clone recipe I found online for Ommegang's Hennepin. I'd need to look at them more closely to see if there are common ingredients, because off the top of my head I couldnt tell you anything included in them. I also need to learn how/where to store extra ingredients I buy since I have no experience with that stuff. Once I get on a roll there will be no stopping me!

The Pol said:

Dude, you live in IL, you dont need a "group" Go to MidCountry Malt near Chicago and you can buy a single 55# sack of 2-row for $27... no need to put together a large order. You can buy anything there for under $.73 a pound basically, in single sacks. You dont need a group.

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Do you drive up there? Where do you get your bulk grains? I'm in Indy.

mychalg9 said:

I also need to learn how/where to store extra ingredients I buy since I have no experience with that stuff. Once I get on a roll there will be no stopping me!

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Storage is no big deal, as long as the grain is UNMILLED. Unmilled grain will keep for a year or so kept in a cool, dry place. Many use rubbermade tubs. You will need a grain mill, which costs way more than you would guess. Look to spend at least $120 for a nice mill. Some use the $50ish corona mills, but a lot of brewers I know wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole.

Freeze your hops. If you have a foodsaver, that's preferred. I think I'm just going to use nice freezer ziploc bags and throw em in the deep freeze.

Do you drive up there? Where do you get your bulk grains? I'm in Indy.

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Doc - see my post above yours - I am going to make a run up there pretty soon.

I think The Pol was in on a major group buy earlier this summer for grains from MidCountry. I never got in on it since I had enough already, but I am now running out and will be heading up there in a month or so.

HickoryMike said:

Storage is no big deal, as long as the grain is UNMILLED. Unmilled grain will keep for a year or so kept in a cool, dry place. Many use rubbermade tubs. You will need a grain mill, which costs way more than you would guess. Look to spend at least $120 for a nice mill. Some use the $50ish corona mills, but a lot of brewers I know wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole.

Freeze your hops. If you have a foodsaver, that's preferred. I think I'm just going to use nice freezer ziploc bags and throw em in the deep freeze.

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I just built a vaccum sealer for Mason Jars with a brake bleeder kit and the foodsaver mason jar attachment. Cost about $40. Works REALLY well for storing hops.

Yeah the mill i saw for sale at my LHBS was like $150. Im expecting to spend over $200 when I decide to upgrade/graduate to the next level, but I'm sure it will be worth it. All these tips are very helpful. I like to put things together in my head before I act on them so just hearing that I can store grains in a rubbermaid tub is simple and great.

brrman said:

Doc - see my post above yours - I am going to make a run up there pretty soon.

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Hey...make sure to PM me when you do. I don't have a grain mill so this is still something I am just dreaming of. I have spend SO MUCH FREAKING money already and am really in saving mode. The biggest cost reducer is bulk hops & yeast washing IMO, so I may have to continue to buy milled grains from my LHBS for awhile.

HickoryMike said:

Brewmaster's Warehouse is pretty cheap and has $7 flat rate shipping (if my memory is correct). Ordering online isn't as cheap as buying your grain wholesale, but you'll still be able to brew cheaper than using extract kits (especially if you're using $45 extract kits).

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Brewmaster's warehouse is cheap for pretty much everything BUT base grain.


You're talking 85 for a bag of MO before shipping. They build the shipping into the base price for grain, so you don't get any savings on the shipping for multiple bags.

HickoryMike said:

Look to spend at least $120 for a nice mill. Some use the $50ish corona mills, but a lot of brewers I know wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole.

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I don't know anyone who has used a corona and not been fine with it.


And they're about $20. Not $50.

Doc Robinson said:

Do you drive up there? Where do you get your bulk grains? I'm in Indy.

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Midcountry Malt...

It is a short drive, I mean, considering you can get a years worth of malt in one swoop perhaps for pennies on the dollar.

Synovia said:

Brewmaster's warehouse is cheap for pretty much everything BUT base grain.


You're talking 85 for a bag of MO before shipping. They build the shipping into the base price for grain, so you don't get any savings on the shipping for multiple bags.

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I mentioned BMW as an option for purchasing by the pound (for say 1 or 2 brewdays), not for bulk purchases. I should have been more specific.

my LHBS sells online. $49.99 for a 50 lb bag of 2-row. Don't know about shipping, though. http://ebrew.com/malt_base/brewers_2-row_malt_briess.htm

apologeticus said:

my LHBS sells online. $49.99 for a 50 lb bag of 2-row. Don't know about shipping, though. http://ebrew.com/malt_base/brewers_2-row_malt_briess.htm

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I'm in Hickory (obviously)...how would you rate this homebrew store? I'm not in Charlotte often, but I've seen this store's website before and have been curious.

HickoryMike said:

I'm in Hickory (obviously)...how would you rate this homebrew store? I'm not in Charlotte often, but I've seen this store's website before and have been curious.

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I like them, though I have to admit they're the only store I've been to. They have 2 locations you can visit, their warehouse or the retail store. They're both about the same drive time for me so I've been to both. The retail store is easier to browse and has more prices displayed, but if you wanna talk to someone who knows his stuff and will take really good care of you go to the warehouse and ask for Jess.

Their website is very outdated (hello 1997!) but I think they're a good store. If you think you may use them a lot, you can pay $15 for a 10% discount on everything for a year.

Made a mashtun for only 15 dollars (got cooler for free)
50lbs of 2-row: 39 dollars
4-5lbs of hops from hopsdirect: 46 dollars
any specialty grains + priming sugar for recipe: 4-6 dollars
yeast depends. I harvest/wash/reuse my yeast, so I'm making 6 recipes with the same 2 yeast's I harvested.

That's 19 dollars a recipe for only those 6 batches. I'm sure I'll end up making a good 15 batches with what I have (if not, more), making that 10.66 dollars per batch. Buy in bulk and go AG for cheapest .

Note: if I add in the money I spent on the mash tun, it's still only 11.66 dollars per batch for my calculated 15 batches.
Edit: I'd have to add in some cost for yeast, but I don't think I'll spend more than 15 dollars on yeast so that'd make it 11.66 dollar a batch (for 15 batches) and 12.66 if you want to include the price I spent on the mash-tun.
Edit2: maybe I took my calculations a little too far; I'd probably only be able to brew 7-8 batches with a 50lb bag of 2-row. Total would come out to be 16.33 (for 7.5 batches), but I'd have hops left over.

I've only done one brew so far. It was a kit that came with the set my wife bought for me. I'm getting another kit this Friday. It's gonna cost me ~34 bucks. That's still cheaper than two cases of Microbrew for me. I want to go PM. I don't have the $ or space for AG atm. I've been shopping around for where I can buy DME in bulk. I'll probably get my specialty grains from my LHBS. There's two in town, but they're both pricey. As far hops go, should I get pellet or whole hops?

I've recently made the leap to AG and love it, but as folks have already stated there is a balance between savings per batch with AG and the up front costs to get a system going. In addition to the mash tun and grain mill that have already been mentioned, there may be a few additional AG start-up costs, depending on what you have already. With AG, you will need to be able to do full boils, which may mean getting a 10-gallon (or so) boil pot and a wort chiller, if your current set-up is for partial boils and ice baths. You will also need an accurate thermometer for the mash.

So, if you're only looking at it from a cost perspective, it could take a good number of batches to "break even" by going AG, and only after that will you start to realize the savings. On the other hand, if you're really into it anyway, you'll be saving money down the road.

I save $1 per pound on grain in bulk

I spend $3k on a brew rig

It is a hobby

I initially made the jump to all grain brewing a couple years ago and did it on a shoestring budget:

- Mash Tun out of a 10g cooler + DIY weldless ball valve + DIY SS hose filter (see https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/cheap-easy-10-gallon-rubbermaid-mlt-conversion-23008/) - $55

- Used my old 7.5g turkey fryer kettle as my Hot Liquor Tank (and still as the boil kettle)

- Bought grain from my LHBS pre-crushed for about $1.35-1.85/pound.


That dropped my average cost per 5g batch from $35 to $25. The next step was where I had to invest some money, but also the step which saved me a TON per batch.

- Bought a Barley Crusher and started buying grain in bulk from a different supplier. Now my grain runs from $0.55 - $0.85 per pound...just about half the cost compared to the LHBS.

- Bought 2 "decomissioned" kegs for an HLT and a boil kettle, and installed weldless kits on both. The HLT got a sight glass and a dial thermometer. The boil kettle got a copper dip tube and Bazooka T-screen.

- I bought a flat of quart mason jars, so I could harvest my yeast. Also picked up a stir plate and a couple 2 Liter flasks. On average, I re-use yeast 3-4 times.

- I now buy hops in bulk from HopsDirect.com. That brought my price down from $1.50-2.00 per ounce to $0.65-1.10 per ounce.

I now brew a 10 gallon batch for $15-30, depending on the recipe. This doesn't include cost of water, gas, or electricity. I converted my main burner to natural gas as well, dropping my true cost per batch down quite a bit. I have probably invested about $1200 in my brewing setup which includes a march pump, silicone hoses, QDs, a CFC, kegerator, and a fermentation chamber. I have almost paid for the system with the money I've saved over extract with the last year of brewing.

HickoryMike said:

I'm in Hickory (obviously)...how would you rate this homebrew store? I'm not in Charlotte often, but I've seen this store's website before and have been curious.

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I think they are great!!! We are very lucky to have such a quality homebrew shop here in CLT, definitely worth a drive down from Hickory, especially if you go to the warehouse in Belmont.