sparkalloid vs super kleer

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bengerman

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so, i'm working on my first batch of skeeter pee. the instructions call for sparkalloid for clearing, and that's what i've seen for most other wines or meads that use a clearing agent rather than time/racking/cold crashes.
i was looking at mountain homebrew's website at wine stuff, and saw super kleer which promises 2 days for clearing. i've looked at a few posts about it, and it sounds like it really works.

so my question is, why aren't more people using it or suggesting it? does it have some negative effect that has been glossed over?
 
going on 50 views with no replies? let me reword: is there a reason i shouldn't use super kleer for the batch of skeeter pee i have going? it sounds like it works really fast and really well? but nobody here seems to suggest using it.
 
I can't answer, but I'm in the same boat. I've got my first batch of skeeter pee in the secondary. None of the stores around me had sparkalloid, but I picked up a pack of isinglass. I've been hesitant to throw that in there, but I imagine any of them would work.
 
Can't answer either. What I do know is that it's a combination of Kieselsol and Chitosan.
Descriptions of the activities of these fining agents seem to indicate that they're used for lighter wines, as one doesn't need tannins to clear, and the Kieselsol seems to work with gelatin/chitosan instead of tannin.

From what I've been reading, it would seem this means that you would want to use this combination more for wines you don't want to have interact with tannin (whites and some reds), and use other fining agents for reds where it uses the tannin to work. (Been digging things up on tannin interactions and fining agents for other reasons).
 
I've never used sparkalloid – but I have used Super-Kleer, and I intend to use it for a batch of “lemon wine” I have going (only very loosely based on skeeter pee).

Don't believe the “2-day” time on the super-kleer. Maybe it will work that way on some batches, but I had a crystal clear cyser that I decided to use it on... and it took 6 days for it get as clear as it was before I added it. It did cause quite a bit of gunk to come out of solution, so I'm glad I used it.

My opinion is – use the super-kleer, but don't get concerned if it takes a week or so to clear.
 
OneCerebralSamurai said:
I've never used sparkalloid – but I have used Super-Kleer, and I intend to use it for a batch of “lemon wine” I have going (only very loosely based on skeeter pee).

Don't believe the “2-day” time on the super-kleer. Maybe it will work that way on some batches, but I had a crystal clear cyser that I decided to use it on... and it took 6 days for it get as clear as it was before I added it. It did cause quite a bit of gunk to come out of solution, so I'm glad I used it.

My opinion is – use the super-kleer, but don't get concerned if it takes a week or so to clear.
Click to expand...

so you didn't experience any negative effects? no loss of good flavors, no addition of funky ones?
with your 6 day time-frame, it sounds like it is potentially faster than sparkalloid, but it's kinda apples and oranges since that was an already decently clear cyser and this is a rather coudly skeeter pee...

and, question number b...
on the skeeter pee website, it says
Add 1/2 tsp Kmeta, 2 1/2 tsp sorbate, and Sparkolliod (follow directions on the package).
Click to expand...
the way i read this, i'm doing this all at once. same for super kleer, i assume? the SK isn't going to pull the Kmeta and sorbate out of suspension?
 
for others following this thread (if there are any....)

i did find one answer here
Chitosan (positive charge): As the name implies, it is composed of chitin, which is the structural element of the exoskeletons of crustaceans, such as crabs, shrimp and other shell fish. Chitosan is especially popular in clearing white wines, since it does not require the aid of tannins to clear, as do some fining agents like gelatine. When used with negatively-charged Kieselsol it is an effective remover of most suspended proteins and solids.

Chitosan and Kieselsol are often sold as a set, in sealed liquid envelopes as fining A (negatively charged Kieselsol) which is added to the wine first, and then fining B (positively charged chitosan) added about a day afterwards. Chitosan has a reputation for being fairly gentle on the character of finished wine...
Kieselsol (negative charge): Also known as silicon dioxide. Kieselsol works well with gelatine as a clearing agent, since it acts as a tannin substitute and works well to remove bitterness from white wines. When used with gelatine, the gelatine is added to the wine first, and then 24 to 48 hours later, a very small amount of Kieselsol is added, and should be racked off within 2 weeks. Kieselsol also works with chitosan (see the section on chitosan earlier).
Click to expand...

sounds like a reasonable way to go, so i'll probably give it a shot, once this stuff finishes fermenting
 
If anything, I would expect a clarifier to work faster on a “clear” batch than on a cloudy one, since it has less work to do. I understand that it's not quite that simple, and that there are other variations based on the exact brew, but I think that's a valid generalization.

As for potentially negative effects – they jury is still out on that one. There definitely aren't any additional “funky” flavors, but it tastes sweeter (FG=1.015) and somewhat less complex to me now. It's a cinnamon cyser, and the super-kleer seems to have stripped out most of the cinnamon. Swmbo still likes it and says it tastes “crisper” now.

Anyway, I'd say just use whatever clarifier is easier for you.
 
Never made skeeter pee, but I have used super kleer on a couple of batches, a wine and a mead that both just refused to clear. SK cleared them both in less than 48 hrs. I could see floc forming within a few minutes after putting in the second component. I could detect no off flavors or odors, and they were some of the clearest wines I have ever made.

I used to work in water treatment, and ironically, "almost clear" liquids are sometimes harder to clear completely. Flocculants such as SK need some small particulates around which to build larger floc particles. That's essentially what sparkolloid does; it adds some additional solids which bind to the cloudiness in the wine and add weight so that gravity can overcome the natural Brownian motion which works to keep particles suspended.
 
I just made my first batch of pee. I tried using Super Kleer as I could not find Sparkolloid, after a couple of days it didn't appear to have cleared at all. I then went and found some Sparkolloid, used that and it started clearing instantly, I bottled the next day and it is crystal clear and delicious!
 
SK worked great on my tea pee/ tea colored skeeter. It's ready to bottle a day later. I think it stripped some of the tea flavor from the wine but it also seems smoother.

Perhaps your pee cleared so quickly with sparkalloid because the sk was already present.
 
WIMARIPA said:
Perhaps your pee cleared so quickly with sparkalloid because the sk was already present.
Click to expand...

Exactly what I was referring to. The SK neutralized the charges so the particles can form floc, and the sparkalloid added some additional solids to give the suspended solids something to cling to and some weight to help them settle. Never thought of using them together but in hindsight it's a natural combination. We used to use diatomaceous earth in combination with a polymeric flocculant; same principle.
 
quick update:
i did used the SK, three days ago, and the pee has cleared a little, but not fully, so obviously 48 hours is optimistic, but i can see that it's working. i think i'll give it 2 or so more days, and if it hasn't shown any more improvement, i'll add some sparkalloid, like WIMARIPA, and see if that helps.
 
For what it's worth, I've used SK on 4 different batches lately (ginger wine, orange mead, grapefruit mead, and a lemon wine). It acted very similar with all 4 batches - it started to clear within the first few days - but they continued to clear all the way out to 2 weeks. By 2 weeks, every batch was sparklingly clear.

For future use, I'll just plan to add the SK 2 weeks before I plan to bottle.
 
credd86 said:
I just made my first batch of pee. I tried using Super Kleer as I could not find Sparkolloid, after a couple of days it didn't appear to have cleared at all. I then went and found some Sparkolloid, used that and it started clearing instantly, I bottled the next day and it is crystal clear and delicious!
Click to expand...
when you did this, did you use the sparkalloid as you normally would? or did you adjust the procedure at all? i'm planning on giving that a shot after work today, as it's been a week since i added the SK
 
bengerman said:
when you did this, did you use the sparkalloid as you normally would? or did you adjust the procedure at all? i'm planning on giving that a shot after work today, as it's been a week since i added the SK
Click to expand...

I just added the Sparkalloid following the directions on the package.
 
added sparkalloid around 630 last night. looked at it at 530am, very clear on the top half, still kind of hazy on the bottom. if this work out, i may try a the sk/sparkalloid combo for my next batch but a little less lag before the sparkalloid.
 
so, after adding the sparkalloid the top cleared very quickly.

what i have now, and have had for several days is a crystal-clear (looks like water, seriously) layer on top and a foggy layer (looks a lot like regular lemonade) on the bottom, separated by a laser-straight line about half way up from the bottom.
is this normal? do i just need to relax, don't worry, and go buy the closest thing to a homebrew i can?
it's been this way since about 12 hours after i added the sparkalloid with no signs of change.

worth noting is that i have no way to cold crash it.
 
I have an odd problem with my Pee. I fermented in a 6 gallon better bottle, then racked off to a 5 gallon carboy. I had some extra so it went into a gallon jug, about 1/2 full. I made up my sparkoloid slurry per the instructions on the bottle, put almost all of it in the carboy, and just a bit in the jug. Now it is two weeks later and the jug is showing signs of clearing up (the top half is already clear) but the carboy hasn't changed at all. I am patient and all that, but my previous batch I was able to see the carboy slowly clearing and was perfectly clear in four weeks. I'm not optimistic the current batch is going to have a conversion experience at this point.

Any ideas why I am getting different results in the same batch with the same sparkoloid slurry mix? Really, I only put a tablespoon in the half gallon jug, and the balance of the 1 cup slurry went in the carboy.

Should I just enjoy my previous batch and keep waiting, or should I hit it with some Super-Kleer?
 
i just used some stuff called 24 Turbo Klar (alcotek, UK), which i think is similar to if not the same as super kleer since it is 2-part kieselsol/chitosan, i degassed as far as i had the patience to do so, reduced the amount of the clearing agent added but otherwise followed the instructions; part A, wait a couple hours, part B. within an hour the neck of the carboy was clear, overnight pretty much clear, a day later 110% clear
no idea if there is any effect on flavor; for skeeter pee i can't imagine it is going to hugely reduce the complexity! never tried sparkalloid; don't think it is available here
 
no response? can i do anything to speed this along? it has been at the same state since the day after I added the Sparkalloid with no signs of improvement.

should I rack the clearest off the top and then put the foggy bits in smaller containers? i may be able to crash cool in smaller bottles.

would pics help?
 

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