Weihenstephaner Korbinian recipe anyone?

wickman6 said:

I'm going with the first recipe, looks pretty sound to me. I think its the second post. I'll probably do a double decoction, boil for 2hrs to get a bit of caramelization and ferment at 48 deg. D-rest, lager for about 6 weeks if I can wait that long.

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Hey Wickman6, how long will you boil the decoctions for and do you plan on decoction rests before they reach the boil? Beer Smith doesnt suggest any times for this, only the main mash rest temps/times which i wrote Beer Smiths default settings for double decoction below to see if you think they are suitable for this beer. Thanks.

122°F (Protein, 35mins), 147°F (Sacch-1,20mins) and 156°F (Sacch-2, 20mins), 168°F (Mash out, 10mins).

I would boil them for 30min. If you only pull enought thin mash to wet the thick mash you don't need to worry about stepping the decoction. All of the enzymes are in the thin mash. One thing I would do is dough in at 95°F that will help to pull the enzymes into the thin mash.

Not sure what you meant Irish. In any case my co-brewers are not up for decoction this time so its back to single infusion with melanoidin and a long boil. If it turns out way off base then will do decoction on my own next time.

The thick mash is the grain part of the mash and the thin mash is the fluid part of the mash. When you do a decoction you want to take just enough of the thin mash to wet the thick mash. That will preserve your enzymes in the bulk of the thin mash that stays in the mashtun.

....assuming that all the enzymes have been transferred from the grain to the strike water before any decoction attempt is made, say 20mins into a protein rest, correct?

Cheers.

That is one reason that you normally dough in at 95°F and let it rest for 20min. It gives time for the grist to hydrate and the enzymes to move into the thin mash. With fully converted grain you should avoid doing a long protein rest. Normally I do a 10 min rest at 122°F

cool!

Did this beer last night.....results to come. Wickman did you try this in the end?

Ayup.

ayupbrewing said:

Did this beer last night.....results to come. Wickman did you try this in the end?

Ayup.

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No I haven't yet, waiting on grain delivery from a recent group buy. I'll be brewing it up when I get that.

What recipe/notes did you end up using?

This is what I actually did, however I was aiming for a 156°F Sacc rest temp. I probably didnt get the decoction all boiling as I was concerned with scortching as it was my first decoction attempt. I ended up hitting my OG bang on 1.075! It may finish lower than I wanted (1.015 instead of 1.020) because of the lower mash but should still be pretty tasty. I used Special B instead of Caraaroma because my LHBS don't carry it. Cooled to 70°F with wort chiller and put it in a swamp cooler overnight at 50°F using ice and situated it in the room above my garage which is not well insulated so stays cold. Will add the yeast tonight after work. I also ended up sparging with more water than initially planned so gave it a longer boil to evaporate down. Thats about it for now..!

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 8.04 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.25 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 4.75 gal
Estimated OG: 1.075 SG
Estimated Color: 33.1 SRM
Estimated IBU: 27.7 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 70.0 %
Boil Time: 110 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
11 lbs 9.5 oz Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 1 75.0 %
2 lbs 5.1 oz Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 2 15.0 %
12.4 oz Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 5.0 %
6.2 oz Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 4 2.5 %
6.2 oz Carafa II - Caraffe (ATR) (380.0 SRM) Grain 5 2.5 %
1.00 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [6.20 %] - First Hop 6 27.7 IBUs
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 7 -
3.0 pkg Saflager Lager (DCL/Fermentis #W-34/70) Yeast 8 -


Mash Schedule: Decoction Mash, Double
Total Grain Weight: 15 lbs 7.4 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperatur Step Time
Protein Rest Add 30.99 qt of water at 141.6 F 136.0 F 25 min
Saccharification Decoct 6.86 qt of mash and boil i 150.0 F 20 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 2.15 gal water at 168.0 F

Looks like a good recipe. I think that you could have left out the Special B. I also would have swapped the Pils for extra Vienna. When I do a decoction for a double bock a 30 min boil on the mash is good. Also with the long boil you might be surprized to find you don't attenuate as much as you would with a 60 min boil. You make all kinds of unfermentable sugars that way.

Cool...thanks. So you boil the decoction for 30mins?? Beer Smith gives me a difference of 5 points on the FG between the two mash temps (156 v 150)...hopefully it is wrong...which wouldn;t be the first time...

Yeah 30min boil is a good length of time for this beer. For a pilsner I do 10 min boils.

Proof that someone finely brewed this beer

I'm brewing soon, I swear! Hahaha. Picking up grain on Sunday.

2 more weeks of lagering and im gonna bottle this bad boy! Its tasting good, not exactly like Korbinian but a good start and a very fine beer nevertheless.

After much consideration, and trying a Celebrator and Korbinian side by side I opted to brew a Celebrator clone.

I found the Korbinian to not be as tasty as I had remembered, and I've always been a sucker for Celebrator.

cool! I'd be interested in your recipe.

I think that sometimes you can get a really great or not so great bottle when you buy imports. It just depends on how the beer was treated and how old it is.

This is the Celebrator. The recipe I used was published in BYO clone brews magazine.

I agree with bottle treatment/age of imports. The 2 Korbinians I tried both tasted oxidized to me.

I can dig up the recipe if you don't have that magazine. I think it may be floating around hbt somewhere as well.

Ill let you know...i have plenty of stuff on my brew list so might be a while... Cheers.

What yeast are you using? I have never had a lager go nutz like that.

crazyirishman34 said:

What yeast are you using? I have never had a lager go nutz like that.

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That's Wyeast 2124, built up a pretty big starter to wake it up. Then as my wort was dropping temp overnight(after the chiller did all it could do) I spared a litre of wort to step up the starter. I pitched the next morning when my wort was down to 44degF, and the starter was at high krausen. That's the first lager I've had do that as well! I must say I was a bit shocked. I subsequently pulled the airlock and fitted a blowoff for a couple days.

The temp never rose above 49 the entire fermentation. I'm about to bring it inside and let it finish up, rack and lager until probably April.

I've got it in my ghetto fermentation chamber, aka tub of bleached water in a cold garage fitted with a temp controller and aquarium heater. It actually works amazingly well!

Here is picture of my version of this. It turned out close, but no cigar..! Any comments/suggestions welcomed. Ayup!

The original, at least the one I bought - which I am assuming not to be oxidized or bad in any other way, had more body, sweetness and fruity flavours. I tried mine against Pyramid brewings Dopplebock and it was a better match. Mine had a very malty flavour which lessened when served nice and cold, good for this style, it has a head the lasts most of the way through the pint, faint hop aroma and heavy malt aroma.

So all in all not a bad beer. To make it more like the original I presume mash higher to get more body and residual sweetness and ferment higher for the fruit.

The latter half of my mash was low because of poor decoction boil. I didnt really do this part properly - i just brought it to the boil and added back as I didnt realize I was supposed to boil it for longer period.

I fermented at 50 for 3 weeks, 4 days at 60, 4 weeks at 40 then bottled and carbed for 4 weeks.

First off dopplebock isn't supposed to be served cold you should be serving it at 57f
http://www.ratebeer.com/Story.asp?StoryID=47

What recipe did you use? Kind of hard to know what you should do with out knowing what you did.

Also did you taste them side by side?

Thanks for the serving tip...I guess I like this one better colder, I typically like beers cellar temp being from the UK Yes side by side...

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 8.04 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.25 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 4.75 gal
Estimated OG: 1.075 SG
Estimated Color: 33.1 SRM
Estimated IBU: 27.7 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 70.0 %
Boil Time: 110 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
11 lbs 9.5 oz Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 1 75.0 %
2 lbs 5.1 oz Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 2 15.0 %
12.4 oz Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 5.0 %
6.2 oz Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 4 2.5 %
6.2 oz Carafa II - Caraffe (ATR) (380.0 SRM) Grain 5 2.5 %
1.00 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [6.20 %] - First Hop 6 27.7 IBUs
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 7 -
3.0 pkg Saflager Lager (DCL/Fermentis #W-34/70) Yeast 8 -


Mash Schedule: Decoction Mash, Double
Total Grain Weight: 15 lbs 7.4 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperatur Step Time
Protein Rest Add 30.99 qt of water at 141.6 F 136.0 F 25 min
Saccharification Decoct 6.86 qt of mash and boil i 150.0 F 20 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 2.15 gal water at 168.0 F

You could try bumping up the rest to 152f

Also you could add 6oz of caramunich

What do you think the caramunich is going to do?

Add a bit of sweetness