Which strain for Edmund Fitzgerald clone?

I'm brewing the BYO clone of Edmund Fitzgerald Porter. It calls for WLP013 London Ale. I have WLP002 English, WLP028 Edinburgh, and WY1056 American. 013 is more attenuative than 002 (which is more estery than 013). I read that 013 has some smokieness, which I've noticed in 028 (which has attenuation close to 013). 1056 is just all around clean.
Which would be the best substitute?

Just noticed that WY1968 is wlp002 and it was used in this version of the clone...
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f66/edmund-fitzgerald-porter-75992/

i'd go with the 002/1968. 002 is the Fuller's strain. the 013 is the Worthington White Sheild strain. both are great yeasts, but i'm partial to the Fuller's strain. just remember to ferment these strains rather cool, allowing them to warm a bit by the end of fermentation for a short diacetyl rest. Wy recommends this with the 1968 strain.

Thanks for the input. I'll get my starter going so I'll be ready to brew on Saturday.

Great Lakes uses Wyeast 1028 for all their (non Belgian/Bavarian) ales. I'd use that, if you want the make a clone. If you really want to stick with what you've got on hand, I'd use either 1056 or 028, as 1028 doesn't throw anywhere near the esters 002 does.

GuldTuborg said:

Great Lakes uses Wyeast 1028 for all their (non Belgian/Bavarian) ales. I'd use that, if you want the make a clone. If you really want to stick with what you've got on hand, I'd use either 1056 or 028, as 1028 doesn't throw anywhere near the esters 002 does.

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I've already got my starter on the stir plate. Any way to keep the esters down (ie. lower fermentation temperature)?

Clifton said:

I've already got my starter on the stir plate. Any way to keep the esters down (ie. lower fermentation temperature)?

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ferment cool, let it warm up a few degrees by the end of active fermentation. here's my blog on fermenting cool to limit fermentation derived flavors.

^ This, but more importantly, pitch cool, and make sure the temp doesn't drop until fermentation is well over. The temp can raise a bit over time, but try not to let it cool down much.

NordeastBrewer77 said:

i'd go with the 002/1968. 002 is the Fuller's strain. the 013 is the Worthington White Sheild strain. both are great yeasts, but i'm partial to the Fuller's strain. just remember to ferment these strains rather cool, allowing them to warm a bit by the end of fermentation for a short diacetyl rest. Wy recommends this with the 1968 strain.

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+10 here. I loooove 1968, but it will benefit from a rise at the end.

GuldTuborg said:

^ This, but more importantly, pitch cool, and make sure the temp doesn't drop until fermentation is well over. The temp can raise a bit over time, but try not to let it cool down much.

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oh for sure. always try to pitch at fermentation temps. if everything goes right, the yeast are awake rather quickly and you don't want english yeast in a too warm environment.

Piratwolf said:

I loooove 1968, but it will benefit from a rise at the end.

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yeah, it's a great yeast. but definitely a bit finicky. it can get butter-y if you don't treat it just right. i was talking to a guy who used to brew in a pub and he said that he'd make great English beer with 1968, but at soon as a fermenter temp went out of whack for even a few hours, butter. keep that guy cool, and then warm it up 5 or so degrees for the last 10% of active fermentation, holding it there for several days after FG.
FWIW, i've been using 1318 (boddington's strain) on english beers that i once used 1968 on, i like the yeast a lot, mild esters, quite clean, good flocc'r. i also plan to try the 1768 (Well's & Young's) for an upcoming strong bitter, hoping it'll have a li'l Bombardier feel too it. :rockin:

Good info, NordEast. Do you get the "English beer" character from 1318 that is so delicious in 1968? I keep a tight rein on the temps with... well, everything except the Saison I made, but it would be nice to have the same flavor & ferment character in a less buttery yeast!

I used wlp013, made a 1L starter on my stir plate, pitched at 63 degrees. It's in the fermentation chamber set at 65 but chugging along at 66 degrees now. When should I raise it to 68?

Piratwolf said:

Do you get the "English beer" character from 1318 that is so delicious in 1968?

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I use 1318 a fair amount. While it's decidedly English in character, you're not likely to mistake it for 1968. At its best, I like 1968 a little more, but it's so finicky, most of the time (for me, anyway) it doesn't make as good a beer. On the other hand, 1318 is a very forgiving yeast, and performs reliably under even less than ideal circumstances. It's worth trying.

Thanks, Tuborg! Good info to know

GuldTuborg said:

I use 1318 a fair amount. While it's decidedly English in character, you're not likely to mistake it for 1968. At its best, I like 1968 a little more, but it's so finicky, most of the time (for me, anyway) it doesn't make as good a beer. On the other hand, 1318 is a very forgiving yeast, and performs reliably under even less than ideal circumstances. It's worth trying.

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yeah, i'd have to say that i've experienced the same thing with 1968. i've made some good beer with it, but it's a very picky strain, and i've made some not so great beer with it too. the 1318 isn't quite as ester-y, IME, but it does come across as noticeably 'English' in character. there's some mild fruit, what i perceive as pear-like, but it's one of the cleaner english yeasts i've used. i always ferment english yeast cool, and pitch a lot of yeast, but i've heard from others that it's much more forgiving of a temp issue or an under pitch.
i tried the 1318 because i was talking to another brewer about 1968, and how it can be finicky. he said when he'd brewed in a pub, he used 1968 in some english styles per pub recipe, but would notice if any type of slip up happened to the fermenter temps, the yeast would kick some funk. so at home he started trying out different strains, and found the 1318 and the 1028 to be his preference. i've been trying a few different English yeasts, and really like the 1318. the 1275 is another one i've found i like.

Interesting!!

Does anyone else get a sort of mineral taste from 1968? I made 3 beers in a row around Christmas--Orfy's Mild, Fuller's ESB clone(-ish), and an RIS--and each one has a noticeable creamy yeast presence at the back of the palate followed by a slight hint of what seems a slightly stony (literally, like a hint of a pebble in your mouth). I'm happy that the yeast performed very well in each batch as I re-pitched and with the consistency, but I'm wondering if anyone else notices that hint of taste on the finish?

Thanks!
pirat

Piratwolf said:

Interesting!!

Does anyone else get a sort of mineral taste from 1968? I made 3 beers in a row around Christmas--Orfy's Mild, Fuller's ESB clone(-ish), and an RIS--and each one has a noticeable creamy yeast presence at the back of the palate followed by a slight hint of what seems a slightly stony (literally, like a hint of a pebble in your mouth). I'm happy that the yeast performed very well in each batch as I re-pitched and with the consistency, but I'm wondering if anyone else notices that hint of taste on the finish?

Thanks!
pirat

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i can see where you'd get that. it does have that distinct 'English' ale character to it, and i don't think it has the mineral-y flavor of something like 1098, mainly because its fruitier, but i get a mineral-y flavor from a lot of english beers, home brewed and commercial.

I pitched on Sat. 2/11. Yesterday it was at 1.026 @ 66 deg. Today 1.024 @ 66. I'm raising the t-stat to 67 and I've swirled the bucket a few times this last 24 hours. Brewtarget says my FG should be 1.019. I'd rather it go down to 1.015 but I'll take what I can get. Should I keep the temp where is or step it up to 68 tomorrow. I wan't it drier but not more estery?

Btw, I use a ranco digital temp controller in and old fridge it is set to heat with a ceramic safety heater in the fridge. I have it set with a 1 degree differential and the probe insulated on the side of my bucket.

Piratwolf said:

Does anyone else get a sort of mineral taste from 1968? I made 3 beers in a row around Christmas--Orfy's Mild, Fuller's ESB clone(-ish), and an RIS--and each one has a noticeable creamy yeast presence at the back of the palate followed by a slight hint of what seems a slightly stony (literally, like a hint of a pebble in your mouth).

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I think I know what you're talking about. When its treated well, in the right kind of wort, and served well (right manner, right time), it gives a very big mouthfeel with an almost sudsy, clingy kind of feel in the back of the mouth and sides of the tongue. It's half taste and half tactile sensation, and I find it incredibly hard to describe because its so unique. But it's the best damned thing in the world in a traditional bitter. I have a local brewery that uses this yeast (or, it was this yeast 19 years ago, and I'm sure it's a bit different now), and their pale ale often has this characteristic when served from a cask. It's the manna of the gods, I swear it. Anyway, that's always my story, until I start on their barley wine, which is quite possible the best beer ever.

Interestingly, I think I can look at a glass and get a pretty good feel if that character will be present or not. There's a certain look to the head that gives it away. Again, it's tough to put to words, but I'll think about it a bit and see if I can make it happen.

Clifton said:

Should I keep the temp where is or step it up to 68 tomorrow. I wan't it drier but not more estery?

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Definitely step it up, IMO!

First, ester production is generally confined to the first stages (reproduction) of fermentation, so you don't need to worry about that one too much five days later... especially since you're more than 80% to FG.

Second, it's become pretty much my standard practice to ferment under tight temp control for 3-4 days, then take the beer out of the fridge and let it free rise to ambient (approx. 68-69). I've found this is very useful for getting that last activity out of the yeast before they go to sleep!

I'd go up to 70 tomorrow or the next day and let it sit there for a week or so to clean up after itself!

@GuldTuborg~

Thanks for the confirmation, sir! And I think I know what you mean about the head consistency. When I was working in a nice restaurant, they used to talk about very fine, active bubbles in champagne as "mousse"... and that's what I think of with this yeast. The head on all three beers is very thick-looking, but very sort of creamy and pillowy. I used it for an ESB (Fuller's clone attempt--NOT cloned but delicious) and it is the first brew I've made (20+ batches!) where the head spills over out of the bottle after I open it. Not a gusher by any stretch... it's very slow... but it builds this beautiful, pure white, mousse-y head.

Glad to find someone else who LOVES this yeast and its flavor contributions! I'd really like to try their Bitter and Barleywine. Sounds amazing. Guess I'll just have to make more myself

Cheers! :rockin: