First/Basic Mead

Before making the meads in my other thread, I think I should make a smaller one to help get the process down. I'm thinking a half gallon batch using a pound of honey. Per Hightest's spreadsheet, it should have an OG of 1.071 and I want to ferment it down to 1.010, similar to the other meads I have planned. With a batch this small, will I need the staggered nutrient additions or just one addition with the yeast? Thanks.

I wouldn't bother with a 1/2 gallon batch. Do atleast a gallon. By the time you take into account all of your transfer losses and samples you might only get a couple bottles, which means you probably won't get the chance to sample them after they have aged. Even with my 2gal batches I feel I am only sampling them to see how they change with time. There isn't enough to just break out a bottle to enjoy.

That said with an OG of 1.070 any yeast will finish this dry fairly quickly. you will have to back sweeten to get to your 1.010. A SNA might be a good idea for the experience but with a low starting gravity it shouldn't be too much stress on the yeast so a single addition is probably sufficient, especially if you pitch 1/2 a pack or more of yeast.

Craig

I would agree that a ½ gallon is much too small a batch. The smallest size I've ever made was 2½-3 gallons. The only time I've used my 1 gallon jug was to make wine from the extra grape juice from my pyments.

Brewin_Bob said:

... With a batch this small, will I need the staggered nutrient additions or just one addition with the yeast? Thanks.

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The reasons for using supplemental nutrients in a mead must do not change just because the batch size changes.

The amount of nutrients used should be adjusted to the batch size, and in case no one has noticed, my mead calculator spreadsheet performs that adjustment automatically (rev 8) ...

hightest said:

The amount of nutrients used should be adjusted to the batch size, and in case no one has noticed, my mead calculator spreadsheet performs that adjustment automatically (rev 8) ...

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I noticed that! Your spreadsheet is great!

How about this then. 2 gallon batch with 5 lbs. of honey. Is that, in your opinion, too small for a beginner/sampling batch?

Brewin_Bob said:

I noticed that! Your spreadsheet is great!

How about this then. 2 gallon batch with 5 lbs. of honey. Is that, in your opinion, too small for a beginner/sampling batch?

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I think that is a good sample size and a good original gravity to learn about mead fermentations. Follow the nutrient additions specified by hightest's spreadsheet and you should have good results.

Craig

Cool. Thanks Craig and Hightest.

Brewin_Bob said:

...How about this then. 2 gallon batch with 5 lbs. of honey. Is that, in your opinion, too small for a beginner/sampling batch?

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That should be fine. For a beginner, that lower OG should help to minimize the possible issues you might experience with high garvity musts. Yet it is not too low...

However, you haven't mentioned what type of yeast you intend to use...

hightest said:

However, you haven't mentioned what type of yeast you intend to use...

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I'm thinking WYeast 4184 for this one and WYeast 4632 for the other 2 meads I have planned (Birthday meads thread). Any suggestions/comments on the yeast?

You might have noticed from other topics in this forum that I am not a fan of liquid mead yeast. I used a sweet mead yeast one time (years ago) and did not like its fermentation characteristic - slow, finicky, and $$.

Since that time I've only used dry yeast - the "old" standards (D47, EC-1118, 71B, K1V-1116, Champagne, etc.). However, I also use types that are not often used (Zymaflore VL3, 58W3, RC212, BA11, R2, Uvaferm 43, etc.)

I hope your liquid mead yeast experience turns out better than mine did...

hightest said:

You might have noticed from other topics in this forum that I am not a fan of liquid mead yeast.

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While I stick with the main stream versions from Red Star and Lalvin for 96.248% of my mead, I'd have to say too that I don't' see any reason to use liquid mead yeast. Dry is just too damn EZ!

After looking around some more, I think I'll go with Lalvin D-47. It seems to be the preferred yeast for meads around here.

Brewin_Bob said:

After looking around some more, I think I'll go with Lalvin D-47. It seems to be the preferred yeast for meads around here.

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Better choice (IMO). This would be a good time to read the rehydration FAQ, and order some Go-Ferm to go along with the D-47.

Ok, new issue.

Got the supplies for this first "test" mead. However, Defalco's doesn't carry Go-Ferm nor diammonium phosphate. They carry and sell a product labeled 'Super Ferment', a product of Country Wines in Pittsburgh, PA. Per their website:

A complete yeast nutrient and energizer in one! Our proprietary blend is more than just diammonium phosphate---it includes ammonium ion and phosphate ion, plus yeast hulls (for lipids), sulfate ion, B-complex vitamins, and growth factors (biotin and pantothenic acid), as well as trace amounts of calcium, magnesium, manganese, and zinc. It contains all of the elements necessary to achieve optimal yeast reproduction and metabolism. Super Ferment will:

promote rapid starts
prevent slow or stuck fermentations
help fermentations to proceed to dryness
This product is so effective that it is used by several commercial wineries, and sold in a number of home beer- and winemaking stores across the country!

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The instructions on the package say to use 1/2 - 1 teaspoon of Super Ferment per gallon of wine. In you're opinions, should I adopt a staggered nutrient addition or follow the packages instructions? I'm thinking of following Hightest's staggered addition schedule with 1 tsp for the first addition, 1/2 tsp for the second addition, and 1/4 tsp for the final addition. How does that look? With the ingredients in the Super Ferment above, is this going to be too much for the yeast? The website didn't mention the amounts of each ingredient in Super Ferment.

The statements made by Super Ferment are not unlike other generic nutrient mixtures. Yes, they contain many of the minerals and vitamins needed, but the essential information is missing - how much assimiable nitrogen is added per unit weight of the product. In addition, what's not stated is that their product is urea-free.

The goal of adding nutrients in stages is to do so in a controlled manner so as not to over do it and stress the yeast. To do that, one must know the ppm YAN added per unit weight of the product.

Will Super Ferment work? Most likely. However without knowing how much of what is being added, the weights specified in my SNA protocol will have no relationship to Super Ferment additions.

Personally, I am always skeptical of products that use the veil of "proprietary". Although Fermaid-K is a proprietary blend, Lallemand fully discloses it product's DAP contribution, and clearly states it contains no urea.

BigKahuna said:

...96.248% of my mead...

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good god, just how many batches have you made? You must be 500 years old to have lived through fermenting that many batches!

AZ_IPA said:

good god, just how many batches have you made? You must be 500 years old to have lived through fermenting that many batches!

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Meh....I'm only 30, but I've been playing for a good long while.

Unfortunately, quality has only been of primary concern for a few years.

hightest said:

The statements made by Super Ferment are not unlike other generic nutrient mixtures. Yes, they contain many of the minerals and vitamins needed, but the essential information is missing - how much assimiable nitrogen is added per unit weight of the product. In addition, what's not stated is that their product is urea-free.

The goal of adding nutrients in stages is to do so in a controlled manner so as not to over do it and stress the yeast. To do that, one must know the ppm YAN added per unit weight of the product.
...
Personally, I am always skeptical of products that use the veil of "proprietary". Although Fermaid-K is a proprietary blend, Lallemand fully discloses it product's DAP contribution, and clearly states it contains no urea.

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So, I should be asking the company:

• Is this product urea free
• What is the diammonium phosphate contribution of this product
• How much assimiable nitrogen is added per unit weight
• What are the proportions of the individual ingredients in this product

What do you mean by assimiable? Do you mean how much nitrogen is in the product to be assimilated by the yeast, like in the quote below?

Hightest's FAQ sticky said:

Depending upon which nutrient is used, this protocol adds 167 - 176 ppm of timed yeast available nitrogen (YAN) to whatever may be available from the must. YAN is also known as Free Amino Nitrogen (FAN).

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Thanks.

Brewin_Bob said:

So, I should be asking the company:

• 1) Is this product urea free
• 2) What is the diammonium phosphate contribution of this product
• 3) How much assimiable nitrogen is added per unit weight
• 4) What are the proportions of the individual ingredients in this product

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Yes, to items 1-3. Item 4 is not needed, when Item 3 is answered as the ppm of YAN (Yeast Assimiable Nitrogen) per unit weight of product added. However, in order to properly answer #3 the manufacturer needs to consider both the organic and inorganic nitrogen contributions. These values are determined by certain specific types of analytical tests - not a SWAG by the LHBS. Instead, it should be provided in the manufacturer's product technical literature - it should be in writing...

What do you mean by assimiable? Do you mean how much nitrogen is in the product to be assimilated by the yeast, like in the quote below?

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Yes, but it should be stated in a form such as, "x% of our product (by weight) is DAP". The ppm number you see in my FAQ is the combined result of all 3 nutrient addition stages.

Thanks Hightest. I just sent Country Wines an email requesting the info.

hightest said:

You might have noticed from other topics in this forum that I am not a fan of liquid mead yeast. I used a sweet mead yeast one time (years ago) and did not like its fermentation characteristic - slow, finicky, and $$.
I hope your liquid mead yeast experience turns out better than mine did...

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I just used the Sweet mead yeast I'm the one with the:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f30/my1st-batch-already-screwed-up-92289/

What exactly happened when u used the liquid yeast? How long did it take to ferment in carboy and then how long did u let it sit after bottling?

It's been quite some time since I used WLP720. I had forgotten that I used it twice - both traditional meads.

The first time: OG 1.099 (WF honey), FG 0.997 (after 12 days) and 0.995 after 111 days, bottled on day 158, first tasted on day 503. I was not impressed with the flavor profile of the resulting mead.

The second (and last) time: OG 1.118 (OB honey), no active fermetation was observered after 48 hours (pH was fine). This was totally unexpected as all my meads are active between 8-24 hours after pitching.

I did not wait any longer. I pitched a D47 starter and fermentation began 11 hours later. FG 0.996 (after 21 days), bottled on day 136, first tasted on day 425.

Considering two yeast types were present, it was difficult to know which may have contributed what to the final product, which was considerably better than its predecessor.

In the end, I found the extra cost (and effort involved) to use a liquid mead yeast to be not worth the uncertainty of its results.

hightest said:

It's been quite some time since I used WLP720. I had forgotten that I used it twice - both traditional meads.

The second (and last) time: OG 1.118 (OB honey), no active fermentation was observered after 48 hours (pH was fine). This was totally unexpected as all my meads are active between 8-24 hours after pitching.

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my experience with WLP720 so far: It started fermenting after 48 hrs (on the 3rd day) which really worried. But yes my mead is officially fermenting!!! So I'm excited. :rockin:
We'll see how things progress. I'll be doing my 1st racking in 1 month and then bottling in another 5. I'll keep everyone posted

Brewin_Bob said:

Thanks Hightest. I just sent Country Wines an email requesting the info.

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Ok, that was a bust.

Jon Benedict said:

Hello Robert,

Thank you for your inquiry. SuperFerment™ is our proprietary blend. The only information we can give out it that which is contained on our website.

A complete yeast nutrient and energizer in one! Our proprietary blend is more than just diammonium phosphate---it includes ammonium ion and phosphate ion, plus yeast hulls (for lipids), sulfate ion, B-complex vitamins, and growth factors (biotin and pantothenic acid), as well as trace amounts of calcium, magnesium, manganese, and zinc. It contains all of the elements necessary to achieve optimal yeast reproduction and metabolism. Super Ferment will:

* promote rapid starts
* prevent slow or stuck fermentations
* help fermentations to proceed to dryness

This product is so effective that it is used by several commercial wineries, and sold in a number of home beer- and winemaking stores across the country!



Thank you for your interest,

Sincerely,
Jon Benedict, Owner
South Hills Brewing Supply
Country Wines

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This was Mr. Benedict's reply to my question posted on Country Wines' website. Don't know what I want to do now. I'm leaning towards using the Super Ferment in small batches and ordering Go Ferm and DAP from AHS or another online store for the Birth Day Meads.

Brewin_Bob said:

Ok, that was a bust.

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I was not surprised by that reply. It was similar to the one I got when I tried to get that same information for Fermax a few years ago, which is why I only use Fermaid-K (or RedStar's Superfood).

Ask yourself, what is so special about that nutrient blend that they won't share how much YAN it provides per unit weight of product? They do not need to disclose the actual product composition to answer that question...

hightest said:

I was not surprised by that reply. It was similar to the one I got when I tried to get that same information for Fermax a few years ago, which is why I only use Fermaid-K (or RedStar's Superfood).

Ask yourself, what is so special about that nutrient blend that they won't share how much YAN it provides per unit weight of product? They do not need to disclose the actual product composition to answer that question...

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Lol. It's like in Kung Fu Panda. The secret ingredient in the noodle soup is ... nothing. Big plus though. Looks like MoreWine has Go Ferm on sale right now.

First mead is brewed and bubblin' away!



I used the SuperFerment (cuz that's what I had on hand), pitched 10grams of D-47 around 10:00, and not an hour later the yeasties were hard at work.

3 lbs. of "local" honey from Defalco's, likely wildflower honey
1 tsp of SuperFerment
top off water to 1 gallon
10g of Lalvin D-47, rehydrated in a 1/3 cup of room temp water
O.G. was 1.098

Per Hightest's spreadsheet, the estimated O.G. should have been around 1.104. My O.G. being off by 0.006 could be due to my not mixing the honey and water enough or temperature adjustment. Either case, I'm happy that nothing went terribly wrong and I feel comfortable making more batches. For the Birth Day Meads, however, I will follow Hightest's FAQ and use his staggered nutrient addition using the nutrients and energizer listed there.

Ok, Im a noob I freely admit...but here's the deal...I want to brew up my mead with the highest alcohol content I can resonably get without compromising the honey taste...Im thinking Id ask in here for some tips and some wrote in stone recipes! So what you old hands got in here? ;-)

ruger12pk said:

Ok, Im a noob I freely admit...but here's the deal...I want to brew up my mead with the highest alcohol content I can resonably get without compromising the honey taste...Im thinking Id ask in here for some tips and some wrote in stone recipes! So what you old hands got in here? ;-)

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It would probably be more appropriate if you started your own thread on this!

Will do Poobah!

Ok, the mead has been in primary for just over a month. I haven't taken a gravity reading yet because I want to leave it alone for as long as I can. It's been fermenting 56ºF - 65ºF. I tried to keep it between 60ºF and 66ºF but with the past few cold fronts, ambient temp inside of my fermentation chamber (old upright freezer) can drop below my preferred range. I know it hasn't stopped fermentation because I can still see tiny bubbles rising to the top, similar to the later fermentation stages of the wine I'm going to be bottling soon.

I plan to rack the mead to a secondary within the next couple of weeks. If I were to rack the mead onto some fresh cut peaches, do I still need the pectic enzyme? I know that the enzyme is needed when using peaches in wines and meads, but didn't know if it applied to primary fermentation. If the enzyme is needed for secondary fermentation/bulk aging/clearing, how much should I use? And how long is too long for the mead to age on the fruit? I assume with the alcohol content of the mead, and with proper sanitation of the fruit, the peaches won't introduce/grow any mold while aging/clearing.

Thanks.