Why buy a grain mill?

Or, to be more specific, why do you suppose most folks here report that their efficiency goes up when they start crushing their own grain?

Obviously buying a grain mail can save money over the long run-- you can buy grain in bulk and even smaller amounts are cheaper if you gring it yourself.

But why can't/won't homebrew suppliers do as good a job as people can do with their own grain mills?

I have read posts here by folks who live near me who report that the LBHS I use does a crappy job of crushing grain. I don't know very much beyond the basics about crushing grain. Is it possible that people get good results at home because their grain mills aren't used very much and hence are not likely to be worn out?

It's not a matter of being "worn out" in most cases. I think when a LHBS gives a poor crush it's more likely a matter of them not taking the time to set the mill to give the proper crush. They may set it to a certain gap and never change it, and often that gap may be too wide. They don't want to run the risk over-crushing the grain, otherwise customers will get stuck sparges and come back complaining, so chances are they are conservative. Besides, what motivation do they have to push the limits on a finer crush? If your efficiency is better, you buy less grain, and they make less money. I'm not saying that most of them would INTENTIONALLY give you a poor crush, but giving you a mediocre crush is 'safer' in general - enough to keep people from complaining about under-crushing, but also enough to keep people from complaining about stuck sparges.

My LHBS may not be a great example, because they're really pathetic in general, but their mill is this narrow single-roller piece of crap and the adjustment knob is busted. I really doubt it ever did a much better job, even when new, except for the adjustability part. It really does a terrible job of crushing, but nobody adjusts it and they don't seem to care enough to fix or replace it. In cases like that, yeah, using a less beat-up mill helps. But I would imagine most LHBS's are using a more decent mill and just not adjusting the crush sufficiently.

If you have your own grain mill you can easily adjust the crush on-the-fly to exactly the way you want it, and you can tweak it and experiment to figure out where the "sweet spot" is for your system, for maximizing efficiency without suffering stuck sparges. If you screw up and crush too fine, you've only got yourself to blame. If your LHBS over-crushed and you got a stuck sparge and spent several frustrated hours dealing with it, you'd probably complain, and then they'd probably have to do some combination of apologizing, replacing the grain, and/or losing you as a customer - none of which is great business for them.

Funkenjaeger said:

It's not a matter of being "worn out" in most cases. I think when a LHBS gives a poor crush it's more likely a matter of them not taking the time to set the mill to give the proper crush. They may set it to a certain gap and never change it, and often that gap may be too wide. They don't want to run the risk over-crushing the grain, otherwise customers will get stuck sparges and come back complaining, so chances are they are conservative.

If you have your own grain mill you can easily adjust the crush on-the-fly to exactly the way you want it, and you can tweak it and experiment to figure out where the "sweet spot" is for your system, for maximizing efficiency without suffering stuck sparges.

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Also you can buy your grains in bulk. 2 row costs $2 a pound at my LHBS. and that is Briess. I bought a bag of Muntons pale 2 for $49.99 this week when my mill came in. And that was without even shopping around. In 3 bags of grain my barley crusher is paid for and after that I save $1 a pound on base malts. But I used mine for the first time today. And I can tell the crush is much much better than the crushes I've got from NB or my LHBS.

I think funken hit the nail on the head at least as far as my LHBS owner is concerned. He has a awesome mill but he is paranoid that someone might get a stuck sparge.

I'm sure that the shop mill at the FLHBS I use is at least 30 years old and mills hundreds of pounds a day. My dad probably used it when he brewed in the late '70s. No matter how solid the thing is, or was, the wear can not have been kind to it. I've seen it down, and repaired, several times. There is no way the gap is still at .040 and no way the rollers still run true.

I honestly don't remember why I originally bought my mill - I used to use a different shop (which is no longer there), and they may have had a crush charge, or they may not have had a mill on premises.

My LHBS actually has their mill set quite well. I get (or got) 75% efficiency each time I crushed my grains there. However, I still purchased my own mill. Why? So I can brew when I want to.

When I feel like baking bread I can open my pantry and choose from four or five different flours. I have a pound of good bread yeast in my freezer, and I have just about any other ingredient I might ever need or want to bake breads, pizza dough, whatever. When I wanted to brew beer, however, I had to plan out what I was going to make, when I was going to have an open slot in the schedule, when I had time to make the 25 minute drive to the store and basically run my brewing day like the invasion of Normandy. I now have a 55lb sack of Marris Otter in an airtight container, a small but workable selection of crystal malts and specialty grains and a couple of yeasts that will be good for another 4-6 months plus one or two that I've harvested.

I still plan my brewing days but I suspect it's going to be a lot more relaxed. And if I run into scheduling problems I can just put it off for another day or two. I don't have to worry about pre-crushed grains going stale or finding time to go pick up ingredients. Very cool.

Chad

Personally i don't like spending 15 min in the LHBS crushing grain on a loud squeaky mill that you can tell is annoying everyone there. Also i like the idea of keeping grain at home and preparing what i need when I want.

I have 110 pounds of Marris Otter and 55 pounds of Weyermann Pilsner…all for just under $100.

In the end I think it’s about gaining an extra measure of control over your brewery.

We move from straight extract to steeped grains to control color and flavor.
From Steeped grains to PM to increase that control and widen our recipe base.
From PM to all grain to gain maximum control over flavor, gravity, IBU’s and color.

Owning a mill simply takes one of the major factors about our brewing (the crush), out of the hands of others.

Plus, I love sticking my arm all the way to the bottom of a 55 pound sack of freshly opened grains.

BM, I might have to start piggybacking on your bulk purchases - STL is only a 6 hour drive from me, and my LHBS just went up to $54.00 for 50# 2-row and "should be climbing more soon". Good thing I just bought a bag at $50.

Chad said:

. And if I run into scheduling problems I can just put it off for another day or two. I don't have to worry about pre-crushed grains going stale or finding time to go pick up ingredients. Very cool.

Chad

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That was a major factor for me also. Plus I hope to break even and start saving money sometime around 2045.

Another thought is, and this is one of the reasons I do it, is that there is no 'LHBS' really. The closest one is 45 minutes, one way. So if I really just get in the mood to brew, with my own mill and sacks of grain I can go at it on the fly. That and the control is nice. Plus you can buy in bulk reducing cost.

zoebisch01 said:

Another thought is, and this is one of the reasons I do it, is that there is no 'LHBS' really. The closest one is 45 minutes, one way. So if I really just get in the mood to brew, with my own mill and sacks of grain I can go at it on the fly. That and the control is nice. Plus you can buy in bulk reducing cost.

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Similarly, I like to use odd malts like Crystal 120 or Pale Chocolate or even Chocolate Rye Malt..... the LHBS only carries a few specialty grains, pretty much Special B, Crystal 60, 80, Vienna, Munich, and Victory. So for the "odd" malts, I buy 3 or 4 lbs at a time, uncrushed, and use what I need to, save the rest.

Somehow, I mis-calculated and wound up with 6 lbs of peated malt. That's gonna take a while to use up.

One of my primary reasons was so I can have fresh crushed grains ready to brew when I am without having to make a trip to the HBS or placing an order ahead of time for each brew.
Ofcourse saving money by buying bulk or larger quanties and getting better efficiencies were also important to me.
I think HBSes are more concerned about customers getting stuck sparges than low efficiencies. Stuck sparges are a royal pain. Low efficiencies can be made up for ahead of time by more grain or afterwards by a little DME. In other words a stuck sparge is more likely to lose a customer while low efficiency is more likely to sell more goods. Which way would you lean as a business owner? Ofcourse I am sure there are plenty of owners who don't care or don't know also.

Craig

I'm sold. I see a "Barley Crusher" in one of the posts Is that the way to go?

KD

I really like my Barley Crusher, but I have no experience with other crushers outside the HBS's I've been to.

I have my Barley Crusher coming this week- UPS says Wednesday.

Austin Homebrew Supply has 2row for 1.30$ a pound bulk or not. And they will mill it for free. So I guess I am not really going to be saving much $.

I have looked at northern malt and while it is cheaper per pound once you add the shipping cost it becomes a wash.
T

I am so fortunate as to have a local place that sells sacks of two-row for $38, compared to $58 a sack at the LHBS, or $6/5 lbs. I figure over 5 sacks, or 20 average brews, my Barley Crusher will have paid for itself. So in a year or three, eh? Plus the convenience factor .

With my Military Discount (yay they give it to retirees with ID) I get my base malts at about $0.89per pound buying 55# bags.. Compare that to $1.60 per pound.. it adds up fast.. Just like hops at freshops.com, if you buy bulk they calculate a discount..

Bulk is always cheaper, and for AG you make your money back after 100# (average) of base malts used (if you buy bulk)

Example I bought a High end adjustable "Malt Mill" for $165.00, With it I bought 55# bags of Pale malt, Wheat malt, and Pilsner malt , the savings on those three bags paid out $120 of the mill, between the saved $1 charge to crush each malt, and the bulk base malts, by next spring the mill will be saving me money after having paid for itself

tgrier said:

I have looked at northern malt and while it is cheaper per pound once you add the shipping cost it becomes a wash.T

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The trick with North Country Malt / Mid Country Malt is to get in on a group buy, and split the pallet shipping charge. Much, much cheaper - Biermuncher can attest to that.

Otherwise, common tactics are to either buy from a local brewery, who might give you a better price or let you piggyback your order on theirs, or also you can plan a vacation that "conveniently" stops through a town with a major malt supplier, and pick up 4 or 5 bags on your way with no shipping charge.

chriso said:

or also you can plan a vacation that "conveniently" stops through a town with a major malt supplier, and pick up 4 or 5 bags on your way with no shipping charge.

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Ditto. Northern Brewer is only 1/2 hour from my parent's house, and only 1 mile off the beaten path while traveling between the two. Any time they visit or we visit, there is a stop at the fun store. They have great prices on sacks of grain, and my shipping is free!