I need your taste buds...(RE Pale Ales)

My main issue with creating recipes is my lack of microbrew experience (don't worry, I'm working on that ). I'm brewing a Pale Ale tomorrow with Simcoe and Amarillo hops. I am not sure how the figures Beersmith tells me, particularly in terms of IBU's, will actually taste. Obviously you can't know exactly, but I don't have much of an idea. I just drank my first SNPA. I really like Pale Ales, and I figured this would be a good baseline to describe what I'm looking for since most people have had it.

So I'm looking to make something with about the same bitterness (No more, a little less is ok). I would also like more hop flavor. I think the use of Amarillo and Simcoe and dry hopping will aid in this. SNPA uses Cascades? I think the color is great, and looks very similar to what I see on Beersmith for my Pale Ale (for what that's worth). The SNPA malt level seems fine, but I wouldn't mind a little more. Lastly, Carapils addition for head? Now, according to my recipe below, does this look like I will accomplish my goals? *Got a similar hops schedule from Brew Haus

Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Estimated OG: 1.052 SG
Estimated Color: 7.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 28.7 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 78.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

8.50 lb Pale Malt, 2 Row 84.2 %
1.00 lb Munich 10L 9.9 %
.59 lb (on hand) Caramel Malt - 60L (Briess) 5.8 %

0.25 oz Simcoe [10.10 %] (60 min) 7.6 IBU
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.90 %] (15 min) 6.6 IBU
0.50 oz Simcoe [10.10 %] (15 min) 7.5 IBU
0.75 oz Amarillo Gold [8.90 %] (5 min) 4.0 IBU *if .25 moved to 60m IBU:34.1
0.50 oz Simcoe [10.10 %] (5 min) 3.0 IBU
0.25 oz Amarillo Gold [8.90 %] (Dry Hop 7 days)
0.25 oz Simcoe [10.10 %] (Dry Hop 7 days)

Nottie or 05, not sure

What do you think? The grains listed are already ground and mixed (-.5lb of 2row), so I can really just add as far as they go. Thanks in advanced.

First I would absolutely use the US-05.

Second your hop utilization on the 15 and 5 min. additions will be virtually zero. (Now someone else may have a diff. opinion since they're such high AAU) Basiclly all your actual bittering is going to come from the 60 min. boil and you're using a quarter ounce of hops for your bittering addition. I'd look into it, seems odd even at 10 AAU's.

Otherwise it looks good to me.

I'll ask those more experienced, what mash temp should be used for an APA? I've not read much on it and would think you'd have some good benefits by mashing at 156-157.

Schlante,
Phillip

Ps Whoo it's late, gotta hit the hay!

Yea, you will get some good hop flavouring and aroma from that but not much bittering at all.
I would go with 1 once of Simcoe at 60 minutes, 1 once Amarillo at 20 minutes, the rest in dry hopping trying to max out the bittering IBU's, flavour and for aroma you it's hard to beat dry hopping. I'm simple and basic in this respect I think.
I break it down to:
60 minutes - max bittering.
20 minutes - max flavour.
5< minutes - aroma.
Dry hopping - In your face aroma.

Now I will enjoy sitting back and being schooled by different opinions.

I would stick with Cascades (edit: if you can get them) for you hops and you need to bump it up quite a bit, they have 37 IBU listed on their website. Next time drop the caramel malt and replace with crystal and lower your munich to 6%. As far as the yeast goes I have no problem with either, I've used both with good results. Mash at around 152 with 1 quart per pound of grist.

This seems like a graet recipe to me. Only thing I would do is take that .25 Amarillo (5 min) and move it to FWH. Now you're talking!
PS use S-05...

If you are looking for something very similar to SNPA:
-Drop the crystal malt, I don't think they use any crystal malt
-Add some Victory or biscuit malt for more malt complexity
-Use Cascade, that is what they use

If you are looking for a very good APA
-Don't change anything

(Use the US05 in either case.)

Heads up on the simcoe-

I made an amber ale a month ago thinking that it would be a good bitterting hop. Well simcoe adds alot of flavor no matter when you add it apparently. I tried my beer after 4 weeks since brew date and the very piney simcoe taste had calmed down to a decent "IPA level" but I still would like it a little less harsh for an amber ale. But if you plan on a beer tasting like an IPA then you'll be fine with simcoe.

My IBU's roughly calculated because of late extract addition was just under 40, give or take 3. Which when my beer mellows out will be just perfect for having a few without having a burnt mouth afterwards.

adamjab,

How much Simcoe did you use? Not looking for IPA like hopiness...

Thanks everyone!

Updated Hops Schedule:

IBU:38.0
0.50 oz Simcoe [10.10%] (60 min) 15.2 IBU
1.25 oz Amarillo Gold [8.90%] (20 min) 20.2 IBU
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.90%] (5 min) 2.7 IBU
0.25 oz Amarillo Gold [8.90%] (Dry Hop 7 days)
0.25 oz Simcoe [10.10%] (Dry Hop 7 days)

OR

IBU:41.6
0.75 oz Simcoe [10.10%] (60 min) 22.7 IBU
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.90%] (15 min) 13.3 IBU
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.90%] (5 min) 2.7 IBU
0.25 oz Amarillo Gold [8.90%] (Dry Hop 7 days)
0.25 oz Simcoe [10.10%] (Dry Hop 7 days)

Depending on how I feel about Simcoe's in about 3 hrs.

Take a look at this:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=32939

Might be a little too hoppy for a pale ale, but a very good beer.

Try my Fat Owl and adjust to fit your hops.
It is based on Sharks Tooth Pale Ale( commercial beer from94-98)
The hop flavor is wonderful

Just a thought, but have you tried first wort hopping? It adds a real nice and smooth bitterness to your brews. With that said I would try this:

.60 Simcoe FWH 60min
1.25 AG 15min
.5 AG 5min

39.5 IBU Should have some nice hop flavor and aroma, with a good smooth bitterness to balance it all out.

mkultra69,

I'm going to go with your idea. I will still dry hop with .25 oz of AG and .25 oz of Simcoe. FWH means tossing them into the first runnings correct?

0.60 oz Simcoe [10.10%] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) 20.0 IBU
1.25 oz Amarillo Gold [8.90%] (15 min) 16.6 IBU
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.90%] (5 min) 2.7 IBU
0.25 oz Amarillo Gold [8.90%] (Dry Hop 7 days)
0.25 oz Simcoe [10.10%] (Dry Hop 7 days)

IBU: 39.2

hammacks said:

adamjab,

How much Simcoe did you use? Not looking for IPA like hopiness...

Click to expand...

I used .5oz for 45 minutes in a 2.5 gallon boil for a 5 gallon batch. I think it was like 20 something IBU's. I should have paid attention to the hop description more because it's not so much that is actual bitterness, I mean it is, but it's more like a perceived bitterness because simcoe taste like a pine tree.

On a side note- this was just another learning curve for me; IBU to actual bitterness on the tongue ratio. Plus actually believing the hop descriptions.

hammacks said:

mkultra69,

I'm going to go with your idea. I will still dry hop with .25 oz of AG and .25 oz of Simcoe. FWH means tossing them into the first runnings correct?

0.60 oz Simcoe [10.10%] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) 20.0 IBU
1.25 oz Amarillo Gold [8.90%] (15 min) 16.6 IBU
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.90%] (5 min) 2.7 IBU
0.25 oz Amarillo Gold [8.90%] (Dry Hop 7 days)
0.25 oz Simcoe [10.10%] (Dry Hop 7 days)

IBU: 39.2

Click to expand...

Yup. Just through them in to your brew pot with your first runnings and then brew as normal.