Sweet Mead Yeast Question

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Texron

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I started a standard mead a month ago using White Labs Sweet Mead Yeast. I used an 15 pounds of an Indonesian Floral Honey and water to five gallons. My starting gravity was 1.110. I don't have any way to check the Ph but I added 2 1/2 teaspon Ferment K at the start and another same amount when the fermentation was very active. I was expecting the mead to finish sweet, but having never used this yeast before have no idea what the finishing gravity should be. Its now at 1.043 and doesn't seem as if it is going to go any further.It actually tastes pretty good as it is but I would like it just a bit dryer.

Does this finishing gravity sound right? If not, any suggestions?
 
It sounds stuck. You are at about 9% ABV and if this is the Wyeast Sweet Mead yeast it should be able to go to 11-12%. It is notoriously finicky. What temp are you keeping it?

I'd find a way to check the pH (borrow from someone) as that may be your problem, and if corrected, the yeast may be able to go a bit further.

If not, your choices are to enjoy it sweet, or make a dry batch to blend with it, or to try to pitch another yeast.

Medsen

Edit - I see it is the White lab strain. The alcohol tolerance is even higher (but it is also finicky). This means you are indeed stuck.
 
Yes - as I've mentioned before, I've seen more "what happened to my fermentation?" threads in this forum involving liquid Sweet Mead Yeast than I could care to count. I'd repitch with a proven and reliable dry yeast. IMO 1.043 is far, far too sweet to even think about drinking.
 
Thanks for the quick replies. What yeast would you recommend? Also, I want it to be about a medium sweetness and was hoping for something about 1.020. Does that sound right?
 
The yeast that are good for restarts (that can start functioning in 9% ABV - a very hostile place) tend to be high alcohol tolerance strains like EC-1118, UvaFerm 43, and the like. If you get one of them going, they will probably take it dry.

You might be better off to blend with a dry batch so you can adjust the level of sweetness to get it where you like.
 
Blending sounds like the best alternative to get it where I want it. Might have a better chance at exercising some control that way. Do you think a gallon batch would be enough to tone it down?
 
I did a few math calculations and it seems a little of the 1.043 goes a long, long way. I am thinking I could make a three gallon batch-and I think I have enough honey left to do so. If I could ferment it down to a 0.990 final gravity and blend two gallons of the 1.043 I should have something like a 1.016 for the blend.

Then I would have a whole lot left over for "back-sweetening" future batches.
 
I would get a new yeast like D47 going in a starter, then pitch that. And when the SG gets to where you want it to be, stop the yeast by racking onto sulfite and sorbate. As long as you don't use a super strong yeast like Lalvin 1118, you can be control the ending sweetness consistently.
 
mrgoodcheese said:
I would get a new yeast like D47 going in a starter, then pitch that. And when the SG gets to where you want it to be, stop the yeast by racking onto sulfite and sorbate.
Click to expand...

This is not a reliable way to stop a fermenting wine yeast. Sorbate and sulfite are very good a keep a fermentation that has stopped from restarting, but they are just not able to consistently stop an active fermentation unless you use them in high doses that will leave you with off flavors.

Texron, you can use a yeast to restart (preferably one good for restarts) and then stop it at the desired gravity by cold-crashing it - putting it in a fridge with the temp below 40F (with or without a dose of sulfite). That will put the yeast to sleep and you can let the mead clear. Then rack it onto sorbate and sulfite and you'll be able to keep it from starting to ferment again. If you have a fridge or cold place that you can do this with, it is an effective alternative.

Medsen
 
mrgoodcheese said:
I would get a new yeast like D47 going in a starter, then pitch that. And when the SG gets to where you want it to be, stop the yeast by racking onto sulfite and sorbate.
Click to expand...

MedsenFey said:
This is not a reliable way to stop a fermenting wine yeast. Sorbate and sulfite are very good a keep a fermentation that has stopped from restarting, but they are just not able to consistently stop an active fermentation unless you use them in high doses that will leave you with off flavors.

Texron, you can use a yeast to restart (preferably one good for restarts) and then stop it at the desired gravity by cold-crashing it - putting it in a fridge with the temp below 40F (with or without a dose of sulfite). That will put the yeast to sleep and you can let the mead clear. Then rack it onto sorbate and sulfite and you'll be able to keep it from starting to ferment again. If you have a fridge or cold place that you can do this with, it is an effective alternative.

Medsen
Click to expand...

Medsen, obviously you have not tried what my suggestion was, or you would actually have the knowledge that tiny amounts of sulfite and sorbate will stop certain yeasts without off flavors. I wouldn't have posted my actual positive yeast stopping experience if the end results were negative. Think about it, man.

And you are "borrowing" from my original post in a different thread, concerning the use of cold crashing with sulfite and sorbate. It just wouldn't be needed with a weaker yeast like D47 and his current alcohol level. Just thought I'd point that out.

And dropping the last sentence of my quote doesn't help you either.
mrgoodcheese said:
...As long as you don't use a super strong yeast like Lalvin 1118, you can be control the ending sweetness consistently.
Click to expand...
 
I am not attempting to take anything you've stated out of context. I've never said that sorbate and sulfite will absolutely fail to stop a fermentation if used, only that you cannot count on it to do so reliably with any wine yeast. D47 is not a weak yeast - quite the contrary. And while EC-1118 does have a higher alcohol tolerance and can tolerate harsh fermentation conditions, it is not a super-yeast.

I believe you when you say you have racked onto sorbate and sulfite and had a fermentation stop. I have sometimes had a fermentation stop after simply racking (which can leave a lot of active yeast behind) without adding any sorbate and sulfite (a stuck fermentation). I hope you will also believe me when I tell you I have racked batches onto sorbate and sulfite (with D47 mind you) and watched them ferment on to dryness more than once.

The lack of success may in part depend on the fermentation conditions and how much of the sulfite gets bound (by sugars, gluconolactone and phenolic elements which vary between honey varieties). The pH may also be a factor - the lower it is, the more effective the sulfite will be. All I'm saying is that if you make a habit of trying to stop an active fermentation with any of the common wine yeast by racking onto sorbate and sulfite, you're probably going to have it fail often enough that you'll start looking for a better alternative.

If it works for you every time, then you just have the magic touch.

Medsen
 
MedsenFey said:
I am not attempting to take anything you've stated out of context. I've never said that sorbate and sulfite will absolutely fail to stop a fermentation if used, only that you cannot count on it to do so reliably with any wine yeast. D47 is not a weak yeast - quite the contrary. And while EC-1118 does have a higher alcohol tolerance and can tolerate harsh fermentation conditions, it is not a super-yeast.

I believe you when you say you have racked onto sorbate and sulfite and had a fermentation stop. I have sometimes had a fermentation stop after simply racking (which can leave a lot of active yeast behind) without adding any sorbate and sulfite (a stuck fermentation). I hope you will also believe me when I tell you I have racked batches onto sorbate and sulfite (with D47 mind you) and watched them ferment on to dryness more than once.

The lack of success may in part depend on the fermentation conditions and how much of the sulfite gets bound (by sugars, gluconolactone and phenolic elements which vary between honey varieties). The pH may also be a factor - the lower it is, the more effective the sulfite will be. All I'm saying is that if you make a habit of trying to stop an active fermentation with any of the common wine yeast by racking onto sorbate and sulfite, you're probably going to have it fail often enough that you'll start looking for a better alternative.

If it works for you every time, then you just have the magic touch.

Medsen
Click to expand...

1118 is the only yeast that on multiple attempts was not stopped by racking onto sulfite and sorbate for the first time. I've been 100% successful stopping the following yeast types: D47, 1122, 1116, R2, Cotes de Blanc, D254, BA11, and T306. If I can get it to work every time, anyone else can also. And obviously racking off settled yeast helps, but I assume everyone knows that.
 
OK-I have been doing some thinking about this. Might be dangerous but here goes.

I am considering racking three gallons of this batch over to a three gallon carboy and then re-pitch yeast on the remaining two gallons. Hopefully I can ferment the two-gallon portion "dry" and then when re-combined lower the overall sweetnes of the batch-but not end up bone dry.

I checked my SG last night and it was still 1.043. Being it has been a week at this so I am convinced my fermentation is stuck. I am going to buy a PH Meter this weekend but I think I will need to re-pitch with another yeast. I have another batch-a Pyment-that is stuck at 1.030 so I am considering the same strategy for it if this works. Any thoughts?
 
You have enough sugar still present in each batch, so to each I would add a bit more nutrient and energizer, repitch another yeast, then either let it go dry or stop the fermentation with sulfite and sorbate at your desired SG level.

Also, adjusting your temperature up slightly can help the fermentation be more active. If you're in the low or mid 60's, try bumping the temp up 5 degrees.
 
Separating it and fermenting a portion dry is certainly a workable approach. It will also be educational - you may find the dry batch very much to your liking and you'll be able to compare the sweet and dry. Then you'll be able to test different blends with different gravities find the one that works best to leave you the sweetness you prefer.
 
OK-I tried splitting the batch into two parts, I took three gallons and replaced one quart of juice with a quart of boiled and cooled spring water. That brought the SG down to 1.035. Then I re-pitched some rehydrated Lalvin 72b-1122 yeast. Virtually nothing happened.

I then bought a Ph Meter and checked it-the results was 3.6. So I added enough acid blend to bring it down to 2.8. I hoped for a re-start on the 1122 but still nothing happened.

I then pitched a pack of Montrachet and thought I had hit the mother lode. It started bubbling profusely after a few days and there was a brown scum that formed in the neck of the bottle for a couple days after that over the weekend. When I came home from work today it was still. I checked the SG and was dissapointed to find it had only dropped tw points to 1.033. I checked the Ph and it is still at 2.8. And through all this it has produced a bit of sediment.

Should I try another type of yeast? With all this yeast I have thrown in there will it end up tasting strange? Am I going to have to try brewing a bone-dry batch and blend it out? Or am I stuck with something that would only be good on ice cream?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I am a bit frustrated at the moment.
 
I'm sorry for your frustration, but I believe I can explain your problem.

1. 71-B is not a yeast to choose to restart a batch (nor is Montrachet). You need a yeast capable of starting in an alcoholic environment. If you look at hightest's instruction for a stuck fermentation, you'll see how to approach it. Using a yeast like Uvaferm 43, EC-1118 (Premier cuvee), or QA23 will be much better for restarting, and it works best if you acclimate the yeast to the must.

2. The pH of 3.6 is just about perfect for yeast. Yeast don't have to be in an acid environment, but they tolerate it better than most things that would spoil the mead. However, the yeast do not like to function at a pH below 3.0. When you added the extra acid, you virtually guaranteed that you will not be getting this batch to restart unless you adjust the pH back up.

I would use the other portion of the batch that you have not treated and get that to ferment dry. Read hightest's instructions (in the sticky at the top of the forum), acclimate a good yeast and don't reduce the pH from 3.6. Once you get that batch dry, you can try blending with the portion that you have acidified.

Endeavor to persevere!

Medsen
 
Thanks Medsen. I guess I am in a big ole learning curve.

I added the acid blend on the recommendations of my LHBS. Oh well, onwards and onwards. I really need the three gallons dry to pull down the two gallons I haven't touched. Would it be to risky to try and take the three gallon batch back to 3.6 or would it be like a dog chasing its tail?
 

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