Breaker went bad

Hey guys, so was about to brew sunday and of course something had to go bad... all of the sudden my system lost power.. tested all the wiring and then came to the breaker and breaker in my spa pannel went out... it was a 50 amp double pole gfci breaker... my question is do I have to replace it with the exact one? Know its probably idea to but shelling out $90 for one, not really an option right now for me. Wondering if I could get by with something cheaper or is my rig dead for awhile.

reese9885 said:

Hey guys, so was about to brew sunday and of course something had to go bad... all of the sudden my system lost power.. tested all the wiring and then came to the breaker and breaker in my spa pannel went out... it was a 50 amp double pole gfci breaker... my question is do I have to replace it with the exact one? Know its probably idea to but shelling out $90 for one, not really an option right now for me. Wondering if I could get by with something cheaper or is my rig dead for awhile.

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the GFCI isn't some thing that i would want to "get by" with by going cheap. How old is the breaker? Any chance it is under warranty?

Its only probably little over a year and I doubt its under warranty still.

TechyDork said:

the GFCI isn't some thing that i would want to "get by" with by going cheap. How old is the breaker? Any chance it is under warranty?

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Flabber glabber, money won't buy you love.

I run a houseful of 20 EUR residual current devices (EU version of GFCI). I mean, I've got like 12 of the dual pole and even one triple pole for my upcoming electric brew rig. That's cheap, like 25 bucks each.

I've got a device that I can plug into a wall socket and push a button, it sends a 30mA jolt down the line and flips the RCD. Every time. They are supposed to be tested monthly, anyway.

It is a spa panel. Buy a new one for $60 and hook it up.

reese9885 said:

Hey guys, so was about to brew sunday and of course something had to go bad... all of the sudden my system lost power.. tested all the wiring and then came to the breaker and breaker in my spa pannel went out... it was a 50 amp double pole gfci breaker... my question is do I have to replace it with the exact one? Know its probably idea to but shelling out $90 for one, not really an option right now for me. Wondering if I could get by with something cheaper or is my rig dead for awhile.

Click to expand...

Just make sure the replacement is rated for the panel. Also are you sure it's bad or a valid trip? Can you disconnect everything down steam of the breaker? Try that if you already didn't.

its bad already tested it with a multimeter to make sure, and ended up just buying another spa pannel and removing the breaker and putting it into the old box so i didnt have to install the whole thing just 3 wire connects. The system is alive once more.

Alright guess i'm not out of the woods yet with this issue... Went to brew with the new breaker in today and lost power again... so i took it back got a new one (just to make sure) didn't connect it to the brewery just wired it into the plug with no outputs plugged in. Still the breaker kept tripping.. I'm so lost right now cant figure out whats going on.. all the terminals in the Spa panel are powered but the beaker wont stay on to power its outputs.

Remove the wire that is landed on the breaker, including the neutral at the bus, turn on the breaker... Does it hold? If it does then you have a problem in your cord from the panel to your brew system.

Also. Have you made any changes recently? Even more so is there more than one GFCI involved in this system?

Its hard to find a good answer without being there.

[Edit]
Just realized this is a spa panel. Sorry. Remove all load from the panel, including the cords. Everything but the main breaker. Also don't remove the neutral from the main breaker... Please. When you turn it on does it hold?

It sounds like you have already removed the load, but the cords and such were still connected. Also it sounds like you replaced the breaker but are still using the old enclosure. Doing what I recommend after the edit will tell you if the problem resides in the actual panel, or in your cord feeding your brew system.

Sadly already tried removing all the loads from the panel, still doesnt hold

Oh cool. So it sounds like we have isolated the problem to your old panel. So one more question. What kind of breaker are you using in your main panel to feed your spa panel? Is it also a GFCI?

The next step I would take is to turn off the breaker that is feeding your spa panel. With a meter ensure it is indeed off at the spa panel. Then measure resistance/continuity from the main lugs of the breaker in the spa panel to both the neutral and the ground. That may help give you an indication. You expect an open line, anything other than that is a problem.

Also do this on both sides of the spa panels gfci breaker, or do it with the breaker closed.

I dont think is isolated both panels wont stay on both trip as soon I plug them in. not sure if this will help but this is what I currently have thats not working.

http://i1148.photobucket.com/albums/o574/eric_smith24/gfci_zpsi4djniqt.jpg

I see. So both breakers are tripping then? So one more time, is the breaker in your main panel also a GFCI breaker?

The reason I am asking is occasionally (and this is often enough where its worth me asking) feeding a GFCI with another GFCI will cause them to trip for no reason. Actually there is a reason but explaining that is beyond what is necessary for this problem solving exercise.

I'm sorry but I didn't realize that both breakers were tripping. My next step would be to remove all the wire from your spa panel except for the ground. Safe the ends of the wire off with electrical tape or some other means. (Big wire nuts)

Once again. I'm not sure if you ohmed out the lugs of the breaker to both the neutral and ground but at this point I do recommend trying that. Last with all the leads except the ground lifted at the spa panel turn on the breaker in your main panel. Does that one hold?

This will tell you if the problem, once again, is in your spa panel, your cable running to your spa panel, or the breaker in your main panel. (Personal note I doubt it is your breaker in your main panel, but I won't rule it out)

main panel breaker isnt a gfci only the spa panel is a gfci. and just tried a bunch of combinations and it seems like the breaker trips when the red+ and/or black+ are connected. I unplugged everything but the ground and that doesn't trip, connected the neutral still didn't trip. but once I connect any or both positive connections the breaker trips. Also tried connected it together without the neutral and still trips

So with the red black lifted your main breaker hold... Thats good.

This leads me to believe its the actual panel and not the breaker that is causing you a problem.

If you have all the wires, green, white, black, red lifted in the spa panel and check continuity between the following points you should observe.

Green to white = Open
Green to black = Open
Green to red = Open
White to black = Open
White to red = Open
Black to red = Open

If any of those gives you a different reading with all your wires lifted. Then the problem is the actual panel and not the GFCI breaker. Along those lines you can try to identify where the problem is, or put in your new unused panel and see what happens.

[edit] All of those readings should be done with the GFCI breaker closed to you read the everything that becomes energized in the panel.

You could also remove the GFCI breaker from the panel and see if it still trips. That would be a good give a way.

I don't really like checking things knowing there is a hard fault present by turning it on. Which is why I am recommending checking continuity with a meter.

Well after checking continuity on everything my outlets on my breaker where some how connecting making the breaker bad... So I took it back to home depot for a 3rd time and got a replacement and wired this one to my dryer outlet and it working fine... Now I'm scared something in my system is causing these breakers to go bad once I connect to it. I actually in the process of building a whole new rig so thinking about waiting to wire that fresh, instead of going over every connection in the other one.

reese9885 said:

Hey guys, so was about to brew sunday and of course something had to go bad... all of the sudden my system lost power.. tested all the wiring and then came to the breaker and breaker in my spa pannel went out... it was a 50 amp double pole gfci breaker... my question is do I have to replace it with the exact one? Know its probably idea to but shelling out $90 for one, not really an option right now for me. Wondering if I could get by with something cheaper or is my rig dead for awhile.

Click to expand...

$90? the whole spa panel with the 50A gfci breaker is less than $70 at home depot last time I checked....
Are you sure its the breaker that failed and you dont have a short somewhere?

EDIT*** read the rest of thread and see you already answered my questions.