Smuttynose "Finestkind" IPA Recipe Feedback

I really like Smuttynose "Finestkind" IPA and want to try to make a clone.


From the info here :
http://www.smuttynose.com/beers/full_time_beers/finestkind_ipa.html

I've come up with this using Brewbuilder from our friend at Brewmasters Warehouse:
5.5 gallon batch
65 IBU
6.94% ABV

Ingredients
13.25 lbs Crisp Maris Otter
Amarillo Pellets 1 oz @ 60 minutes
Simcoe Pellets 1 oz @ 30 minutes
Santiam Plugs 1 oz @ 30 minutes
Simcoe Pellets 1 oz @ 10 minutes
Simcoe Pellets 1 oz @ Dry Hop
White Labs WLP001 Yeast

Not sure of what temperature to mash.

Any opinions/help ?

Looks pretty good to me, but is just MO going to be the right SRM? I thought that normally an IPA had a slightly darker hue to it? My recipe uses a little belgian caramel munich 60L to get a bit of reddish hue to it... but I may be wrong, the specifications may be wider than I'm thinking... The hops sound good, Myself, I like the simcoe a LOT I don't know what the finestkind tastes like, never had it, and I'm not as familiar w/ amarillo or santiam, but I think it looks like a tasty brew!

~Phil

It's very light colored for an IPA.

Just punched the numbers into Beersmith and the IBU's came up at a little over 85 compared to 65 on Brewbuilder.

I'll support your decisions to use Simcoe hops and little or no crystal. I don't know about yeast or mashing though. My recollection is it isn't too dry a beer, so you don't want to mash too low.

Also, if it is 85 IBUs, that's too high. 65 seemed right.

(Just to clarify, I have had this beer before.)

Lost your recipe and had santiam problems. My documentation stinks, as I haven't brewed in a year. All this is guesses, as I didn't record anything like AAs. ...
Beersmith suggests IBUs are 120! double what they should be.

Amount Item Type % or IBU
13 lbs 4.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 96.36 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 3.64 %
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (60 min) Hops 39.0 IBU
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (45 min) Hops 35.8 IBU
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (30 min) Hops 30.0 IBU
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (15 min) Hops 12.6 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (1 min) Hops 0.7 IBU
0.25 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
5.00 gal Portsmouth, New Hampshire Water
1 Pkgs SafAle American Ale (DCL Yeast #S-05) Yeast-Ale

Mashed at ~150F for 60 min.

Just sneaked a glass for comparison....
Way too light. It definitely needs some more red. Too Thin. Nowhere near Smutty FinestKind. Good beer, but just don't put it next to Smutty...

I'm finally brewing this today.

Just too many beers I want to make.

It seems here (http://smuttynose.blogspot.com/ ) that they may use Magnum as the bittering hop. Also you have the Amarillos on the wrong end ("dry hopping has remained the same with Amarillos adding their distinctive aroma."

It will still be fine, but this group was right, my batch was too light SRM-wise. I mashed too low and it is too thin also.

Will post recipe later

This is quoted direct from there website:

You could say, then, that Smuttynose IPA is a physical salute to the glory of the American hop grower. The citrusy hop flavor coming from a mixture of Simcoe and Santiams is pleasantly balanced by a smooth bitterness from the Amarillo hops.

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No mention of Magnum and it looks as though Amarillo for bitterness.

Solution....
I live here in Portsmouth. I am going to take a few recipes down to the Portsmouth Brewery and talk to Tod Mott, brewer extraordinaire. I actually plan on brewing Monday night, so I hope he is there Monday (hmm I only have hops for your recipe. rats).

Either way, we will have a great recipe.

Raymond in Portsmouth

Luckily we got our creative hop juices flowing as we’re starting to make some changes to our Finest Kind as certain varieties become scarce. After dropping an obscene amount of money we were able to secure an extra amount of Magnum so our bittering addition hasn’t changed too much. We’ve decided to use some Super Styrians as a substitute for the Simcoes we were adding with the Magnums in the bittering addition. This was mostly done to save the Simcoes for the flavoring additions where that hop can really shine. As Simcoes are incredibly tight right now we’ve starting blending some Centennials into the flavor additions. We’ll run out of those and start to look at Summits, Glaciers, and Nuggets depending on what kind of horse trading (or straight up theft) we can do. Our whirlpool addition changed a bit as well as we’re now blending Cascades, EKG’s with the Santiams we’ve always used. The dry hopping has remained the same with Amarillos adding their distinctive aroma. The first batch is tasting great and should be out in the stores in the next few weeks. As we get closer to harvest and supplies run low we may have to make some other changes. It’s certainly been a challenging year but thankfully early indications are pointing to a great hop harvest this year. Maybe even a bumper crop. Hopefully that happens but we’ll just have to keep our fingers crossed.

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I would do:
Magnum/Simcoe @ 60 Mins
Simcoe @ 30 Mins
Simcoe @ 15 Mins
Santiam @ Whirlpool
Amarillo @ Dry Hop

Since Santiam seems to be currently unavailable, I would do a blend of a noble (Libery/Hallertau) and EKG.

Mac's IPA #2 (Finest Kind Clone)
American IPA

Type: All Grain
Date: 03/09/10
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 6.27 gal
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: McGill Brewery
Brewhouse Efficiency: 61.00

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
13 lbs 4.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 92.98 %
1 lbs Amber Malt (42.0 SRM) Grain 7.02 %
1.00 oz Simcoe [12.20 %] (60 min) Hops 40.1 IBU
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [7.50 %] (Dry Hop 6 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Simcoe [12.20 %] (35 min) Hops 33.2 IBU
1.00 oz Simcoe [12.20 %] (Dry Hop 6 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Santiam [5.20 %] (0 min) Hops -
0.25 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
5.00 gal Portsmouth, New Hampshire Water
2 Pkgs SafAle American Ale (DCL Yeast #S-05) Yeast-Ale


Beer Profile

Measured Original Gravity: 1.062 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.018 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.86 %
Bitterness: 73.3 IBU Calories: 282 cal/pint
Est Color: 9.0 SRM Color: Color


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge Total Grain Weight: 14.25 lb
Sparge Water: 3.63 gal Grain Temperature: 50.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F TunTemperature: 50.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.4 PH

Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge Step Time Name Description Step Temp 60 min Mash In Add 17.81 qt of water at 172.1 F 154.0 F

Notes

Low efficiency in Mash Tun (conversion from grain starch to sugar.).
Hard keeping temperature in mash tun. Wanted 158F, got 150F.
Noted afterwards that the amber malt we were using was twice the color (42 SRM vs 22 SRM), so this will be a bit darker than I hoped.
Excited about this batch. Color in style, ABV in Style, Bitterness slightly over style. Due to less malt, it may be balanced a bit too bitter.

How did this turn out? I am sipping on my 1st one right now and have some extra Simcoe and Amarillo hops from last year and am thinking about brewing this.

I had this brew a few weeks ago and decided to e-mail the brewmaster to see if he could give a little guidance and this is what he replied (super nice to respond to a lowly homebrewer BTW)

Rob,

Happy to help out. Here's an outline of the recipe. You'll have to tailor it to your brew length and efficiency. Hopefully this gets you close.

S.G. 1.060
IBU's 70

Grain Bill:

2-Row 84%
Pale Ale Malt 13%
Crystal 60L 3%

Hopping:

Bittering - Warrior
Flavoring - Simcoe (added every 5 minutes for the last 30 minutes of boil)
Whirlpool - Santiam
Dry Hop - Amarillo

We use Chico and ferment at 68F.

Let me know if you have any questions.

dave

Dave and his crew truly are "Finest Kind"!

I toured the brewery the other week and they are great people.
The brewer that day showed me the recipe and read it out to me. It was same but you have better detail. I will submit my BeerSmith hopefully soon.

Note: Here is what pale malt is, I am confident. This was identified as "Crisp malt" when I was there.
3lov UK pale malt, traditionally made.
http://www.rebelbrewer.com/shoppingcart/products/Crisp-Pale-Ale-Malt-(by-the-pound).html

So, 2 Row IS pale ale malt, right? These are just two varieties?

I just spent $150 on ingredients. Didn't get 60L caramel or Chico yeast. Argh.

************************
BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Smuttynose IPA - from Smuttynose
Brewer: Raymond McGill
Asst Brewer: Scott McPherson
Style: American IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 5.72 gal
Estimated OG: 1.072 SG
Estimated Color: 7.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 76.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
11 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 83.02 %
1 lbs 12.0 oz Pale Malt, Crisp (3.0 SRM) Grain 13.21 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 3.77 %
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [7.50 %] (Dry Hop 6 days) Hops -
0.50 oz Santiam [6.00 %] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Warrior [15.00 %] (60 min) Hops 46.1 IBU
0.25 oz Simcoe [12.60 %] (30 min) Hops 7.4 IBU
0.25 oz Simcoe [12.60 %] (25 min) Hops 6.7 IBU
0.25 oz Simcoe [12.60 %] (20 min) Hops 5.9 IBU
0.25 oz Simcoe [12.20 %] (15 min) Hops 4.7 IBU
0.25 oz Simcoe [12.60 %] (10 min) Hops 3.5 IBU
0.25 oz Simcoe [12.60 %] (5 min) Hops 1.9 IBU
0.25 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
5.00 gal Portsmouth, New Hampshire Water
1 Pkgs California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Full Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 13.25 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Full Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
45 min Mash In Add 16.56 qt of water at 172.9 F 158.0 F

Ray, fwiw I'm going to be doing a 60 minute mash at 154F and only have 10.75 lbs total in my grain bill. I took the 'pale ale' to be maris otter which is what I'll be using in addition to US 2-row.

I think the 'whirpool' addition of the Santiam is just a flameout addition and not the dry hopping.

Just my 0.02. Let me know how it turns out. I'll be brewing my version up in a few weeks hopefully.

I question the flame out addition of hops. What am I missing?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/whirlpool-hop-additions-please-explain-47039/#post2038477

The recommendations from Dave (a professional brewer) are to add the Santiam hops as a whirlpool addition on the hop schedule. I see from the linked post you are familiar with the process. The wort is still hot at flameout (for us) and at whirlpool (for the pros). Therefore you get a different extraction than you would for say, dry hopping.

The term whirlpool for professional brewers I interpret as a flameout addition for me, the homebrewer. I make this addition right before I turn the burner off and will stir this addition around as I am cooling the wort. This is my interpretation of the term and actual mileage may vary.

Let me know how your brew turns out, I'm excited to get this one going.

Wow too awesome!!! This is my favorite IPA found about 5 yrs ago from vacationing in Maine...too bad I'm about 6 hrs away. I have and do get cases and kegs locally.

Thanks for sharing, I'll definately take a shot with all this good info, especially cool that the brewer provided some info. I'm going to guess that this is one of the first commericial beers using simcoe way back.

Please compare and let me know how the clone fares, this has just jumped to next on my list

ps- I've never seen Santiam hops before

Anyone up for a clone swap?

Note that recipe has a 60% efficiency rate. Adjust for your equipment maintaining the right percentages of grain.

Also, the whirlpool discussion... if you throw in hops at flame out I believe that it IS NOT the same as whirlpool. Whirlpool is 30 mins of decreasing temps but hot. Personally, I am through a chiller and in the carboy in 15 mins, so I feel we would waste the hops. I put them in as dryhops.

How did your beer turn out?

pjcampbell said:

How did your beer turn out?

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I made this brew a few weeks after my initial post and I'm telling you it was one of the best IPA's I've had/made. I hope to make this one again some day soon.

I did not have a "Finest Kind" to do a direct comparison so I prefer to refrain from commenting on the 'clonliness'.

Has anyone done this recently or experimented some more to nail down the recipe? Also, looks like most people might be tuned-into this already, but I spoke with a representative from Smuttynose at a beer festival yesterday and she told me they use Simcoe and Amarillo hops (she offered this info - i didn't ask her specifically about the hop varieties), and she said it is about 65 IBU.

scruffymmh said:

Has anyone done this recently or experimented some more to nail down the recipe? Also, looks like most people might be tuned-into this already, but I spoke with a representative from Smuttynose at a beer festival yesterday and she told me they use Simcoe and Amarillo hops (she offered this info - i didn't ask her specifically about the hop varieties), and she said it is about 65 IBU.

Click to expand...

Did you ever try this? This is my favorite IPA and I'm thinking about giving it a shot.

j1rubin said:

Did you ever try this? This is my favorite IPA and I'm thinking about giving it a shot.

Click to expand...

Yagain, yes, I've made this several times and my side by side comparison I believe mine is better but this may be more a function or freshness. Who know? This is a totally solid IPA.

j1rubin said:

Did you ever try this? This is my favorite IPA and I'm thinking about giving it a shot.

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I didn't yet but I plan to

scruffymmh said:

Has anyone done this recently or experimented some more to nail down the recipe? Also, looks like most people might be tuned-into this already, but I spoke with a representative from Smuttynose at a beer festival yesterday and she told me they use Simcoe and Amarillo hops (she offered this info - i didn't ask her specifically about the hop varieties), and she said it is about 65 IBU.

Click to expand...

This was my first attempt at a clone that I developed 6 years ago when I first started brewing and was doing all extract. I developed it based on what I was able to pull from their website, filled in the blanks, and the taste was exact, the color a bit lighter and a bit lower ABV. Damn good. At the time Williams was selling Maris Otter extract. I don't think they do any longer. Easy enough to convert to all grain. Once the hop shortage hit I started using Liberty and Tettnang for the Santiam. Amarillo is easy enough to find and you can find Simcoe with a little effort.

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
1.00 lb Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 13.79 %
6.00 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter (6.3 SRM) Extract 82.76 %
0.25 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 3.45 %
1.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (60 min) Hops 36.6 IBU
0.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (30 min) Hops 14.3 IBU
0.50 oz Santiam [6.00 %] (30 min) Hops 6.6 IBU
0.50 oz Santiam [6.00 %] (3 min) Hops 1.1 IBU
0.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (3 min) Hops 2.3 IBU
Wyeast Labs #1096 Yeast-Ale