How do you prefer to ferment with this strain (i.e., temps, pitching rate, etc.)?
British Yeasts, Fermentation Temps and Profiles, CYBI, Other Thoughts...
- Thread starter KingBrianI
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
How do you prefer to ferment with this strain (i.e., temps, pitching rate, etc.)?
SpanishCastleAle
Well-Known Member
Allegedly the Boddington's strain and was already going to be the next yeast I try. My ordinary bitter going now is using the Scottish strain (1728) which is prob too neutral but that's what I had on-hand.
Candidates I had in mind were Notty, 1469 (if I can get it without having to buy a ~7# grain bill for 20 bucks + 7.99 shipping on top of it), 1028, 1099, 1275, 1335, 1968, or any other yeast people have had good success with in this style. I am open to trying any yeast that has worked well in this style range for others.
I have not had any real luck with 1728 in porter or bitter style range, but I have only tried it twice. In a side-by-side with Notty the 1728 in a porter was just bland and non-descript. Love it in Scottish Ales though with cold fermentation.
elkdog
Well-Known Member
My ESB got down to 1.016 from 1.057 with no diacetyl that I can pick up (probably due to the sugar I used), so I'm crash cooling it now, to be bottled Sunday/Monday. The malt flavor is the best I've gotten from a beer- a London flashback in a glass. Hopefully the crash cooling helps keep the yeast from doing anything else to it.
bierhaus15
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2008
- Messages
- 1,950
- Reaction score
- 448
I usually pitch a quart starter, decanted and aerate with oxygen to around 8-12ppm. Though sometimes I'll get lazy and just shake the carboy for a minutes; I honestly can't say I've noticed a difference between the two. I do a pretty typical ferment with this one, pitch around 64 and ferment around 68F for two weeks with a D-rest. By day 14 I'll crash cool the beer and bottle/keg by day 17 or so. I really haven't played around with ferment temps on this one, I've been very happy with the results so far.
The only thing about this yeast that can be problematic is that it is a top cropper and the krausen sticks around for as long as you let it. I usually top crop this yeast for re-pitching. Also, even if this yeast finishes low, it will leave a bit of residual sweetness.
What sort of fermentation schedule did you use?
1. Cold pitch and warm up?
2. Open or closed ferment?
3. D Rest?
4. When do you cold crash? Once FG is achieved? How long would you recommend cold crashing to stop yeast activity?
5. Are you going to bottle with a secondary yeast?
6. Carbing with corn sugar or something else?
Sorry for all the questions. I have a fresh vial of WLP002 sitting in my fridge and have decided that it is time to start the journey of dialing in a house British ale to keep on hand. My dad and one of my co-workers are huge fans of malty British beers and I would like to play in this end of the spectrum for awhile.
First thing I will probably do (after brewing with the 002 I have on hand) is try some of the other yeasts mentioned in this thread
elkdog
Well-Known Member
Questions are what we do here, right?
1. I followed what Fuller' says they do. Pitched at 63, let it rise to 68 for a couple of days, cooled back to 63/64 (they say they do it halfway to FG, I forgot and did it at 1.023), then crash cooled after FG. I think Fuller's crash cools right before FG, but I wanted to make sure my bottle conditioning didn't get messed up by incomplete attenuation.
2. Closed ferment.
3. No D-rest. Didn't need it.
4. Cold-crashed at FG (see above). I'm gonna leave it for 3-4 days at a good cold temp, 35 in this case.
5. Yep, I'm gonna add just a little S-05, per Bierhaus' recommendations.
6. Just corn sugar, carbing to 2.0 volumes for this ESB, would go less for an ordinary/special bitter.
I have never really tasted my beers this early, due to being wary of introducing the wild yeast, so this one has been very eye-opening. With almost no external indication, my current English Pale Ale dropped 3 points (from 1.018 to 1.015) over the past 24 hours. And the taste totally changed as well. All of the oillly-ness (diacetyl??) and most of the tartness (acetaldehyde??) left literally overnight. Really there is less "green" in this beer on day 5 than I have had in most after 10 days or more. And for the first time I can actually taste some real English yeast character in a beer I made--and big round malt to boot.
There might be something to this cold-warm-cold thing.
There might be something to this cold-warm-cold thing.
What yeast are you using on this one?
OP
OP
KingBrianI
Well-Known Member
So I thought I'd try the London III on my brown porter, mainly because of this thread. I brewed it up Sunday, so it hasn't even been a week yet. But I'm wondering if this is a slower fermenter than 1968, 1275, and other more common English strains. Fermentation has really come to a crawl and is now at 1.020 (63% attenuation). Is that common with this yeast? I'm obviously hoping it continues to dry out to around 1.012. It's slowly been raised from 64-70 since Sunday. I'll continue to rouse and hope for the best.
bierhaus15
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2008
- Messages
- 1,950
- Reaction score
- 448
I wouldn't say it's an explosive fermenter but definitely not a sluggish one either, I usually reach a final target gravity within a week. 63% attenuation does seem low for this yeast, Wyeast lists 71-75% and I usually get around 75-78%.
Any thing in the grist that would provide a lot of non-fermentables?
Any thing in the grist that would provide a lot of non-fermentables?
For the record, as far as the Fuller's yeast goes (WLP002), fermenting cool (at the end, at least) does not seem to encourage the yeast to drop out early. At least it didn't for my current batch. I dropped the temp from 68 to 64 over the course of just a few hours on day 3, when the beer was chugging away like a freight train--and it kept right on chugging for a day, then slowed gradually over a day and a half to almost nothing.
Then I took a reading. From 1.054 to 1.018. One day later at 64 (with no noticeable activity) and it was down to 1.015 (72% attenuation) and tasting fantastic, with no more oily or fatty notes, but still a bit "green". One more day (Day 6, today) and still at 1.015, but a bit cleaner. Honestly I think maybe a lot cleaner (my palette is still kind of new at this) and I might have crashed this morning. But you would really have to be on top of your process to cold crash at a certain targeted gravity +/- less than a day's time.
72% is what I have gotten in the past fermenting at 67-68 for 2 weeks with WLP002 for a beer mashed around 150--so I say the yeast did their best regardless of temperature. I don't really aerate except for a minute or two of shaking the fermenter while siphoning the cooled wort, but I did pitch a good-sized starter per Mr. Malty, AND I dropped the temp while things were still going strong.
Crashing now. The jury's still out on what this routine does for the taste of the finished product, but I think this batch will be the closest I've come to the English taste I've been chasing. We'll see in three weeks or so. In the mean time I think I might brew the same thing again, but with less hops and a pound of caramelized raw sugar.
Good thread, King Brian!
Then I took a reading. From 1.054 to 1.018. One day later at 64 (with no noticeable activity) and it was down to 1.015 (72% attenuation) and tasting fantastic, with no more oily or fatty notes, but still a bit "green". One more day (Day 6, today) and still at 1.015, but a bit cleaner. Honestly I think maybe a lot cleaner (my palette is still kind of new at this) and I might have crashed this morning. But you would really have to be on top of your process to cold crash at a certain targeted gravity +/- less than a day's time.
72% is what I have gotten in the past fermenting at 67-68 for 2 weeks with WLP002 for a beer mashed around 150--so I say the yeast did their best regardless of temperature. I don't really aerate except for a minute or two of shaking the fermenter while siphoning the cooled wort, but I did pitch a good-sized starter per Mr. Malty, AND I dropped the temp while things were still going strong.
Crashing now. The jury's still out on what this routine does for the taste of the finished product, but I think this batch will be the closest I've come to the English taste I've been chasing. We'll see in three weeks or so. In the mean time I think I might brew the same thing again, but with less hops and a pound of caramelized raw sugar.
Good thread, King Brian!
I experienced the same thing a lot of you guys are experiencing: beer is awesome out of the primary, even more awesome after a week of bottle conditionning, but it has now lost its magnificient aroma and palate after only 20 days in the bottle. The malt, toffee, honey notes are gone leaving the beer feeling lifeless. It's still good, but it's lacking.
I fermented the beer with 1275 at 64F for three weeks (life got in the way of bottling). I used gelatin to clear as always. Since I don't have a dedicated fridge to put my fermenters into, I cannot realistically crash cool for 3-4 days when final attenuation is reached... I'm thinking I could probably put all my bombers in the fridge once the beer has carbed though and try to bottle at 14-16 days.
I fermented the beer with 1275 at 64F for three weeks (life got in the way of bottling). I used gelatin to clear as always. Since I don't have a dedicated fridge to put my fermenters into, I cannot realistically crash cool for 3-4 days when final attenuation is reached... I'm thinking I could probably put all my bombers in the fridge once the beer has carbed though and try to bottle at 14-16 days.
OP
OP
KingBrianI
Well-Known Member
I kegged my batch yesterday and last night I decided to give it a taste even though it was uncarbed. Wow! The malt expression in this beer is unbelievable! It's not that sweet-malty you get when a beer underattenuates but a true complex malty flavor. Amber malt has never tasted so good. Even though this beer only had a 1.044 OG, it has the malt intensity and complexity of a beer of 1.060 or higher. Now I know why british brewers tend to use little crystal malt and frequently include adjuncts. This beer has MORE of that beautiful malt flavor I was looking for than the commercial british beers! It tastes more along the lines of a british strong ale or winter warmer without the alcohol. It's nutty, toasty, caramelly and delicious. I can't wait to start pumping out british ales with this technique.
I brewed up a chocolate stout yesterday and pitched some slurry of the 1968 into it. I'm following the same fermentation profile so we'll see if I can consistently get such good results. I pitched yesterday at 3:30 at 63*F and fermentation started very quickly. It just hit 68*F this morning at 10:30 so I'm expecting a little bit more fruity esters this time around. In two weeks or so I'll brew up another bitter and start perfecting my house recipes. Now that I know the secret, there will be no stopping me!
I brewed up a chocolate stout yesterday and pitched some slurry of the 1968 into it. I'm following the same fermentation profile so we'll see if I can consistently get such good results. I pitched yesterday at 3:30 at 63*F and fermentation started very quickly. It just hit 68*F this morning at 10:30 so I'm expecting a little bit more fruity esters this time around. In two weeks or so I'll brew up another bitter and start perfecting my house recipes. Now that I know the secret, there will be no stopping me!
bierhaus15
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2008
- Messages
- 1,950
- Reaction score
- 448
Hey that's awesome KB - amazing what a shorter fermentation and cold crashing can do!
I feel I have the malt profile down pretty good for my English ales, now I just need to perfect my late hopping technique and I'll be all set.
I feel I have the malt profile down pretty good for my English ales, now I just need to perfect my late hopping technique and I'll be all set.
OP
OP
KingBrianI
Well-Known Member
Haha, that is one other thing I'm trying to nail down. It's very difficult to get that sweet, floral, fragrant hop note british beers have. I've tried 15 minute only, 10 minute only, flameout only and 80C after flameout steep only additions, and still haven't perfected it. Too much hops and it gets grassy and astringent, too little and they're nearly undetectable. What have you found to work for you? Maybe we should start a hopping british ales thread!
bierhaus15
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2008
- Messages
- 1,950
- Reaction score
- 448
Haha, that is one other thing I'm trying to nail down. It's very difficult to get that sweet, floral, fragrant hop note british beers have. I've tried 15 minute only, 10 minute only, flameout only and 80C after flameout steep only additions, and still haven't perfected it. Too much hops and it gets grassy and astringent, too little and they're nearly undetectable. What have you found to work for you? Maybe we should start a hopping british ales thread!
This is going to sound crazy - heretical almost, but I've started using a really clean, high AA% hop (magnum, galena) at 60min for most of my bittering charge. I then add my flavor/aroma hops starting at 15-10 min with a big flameout addition and maybe a dry hop. For me, I like my English ales to have a firm, clean bitterness followed by a huge malt profile in the middle and to end with a burst of that flowery-fragrant hop aroma. I originally used EKG for bittering, 30 min, 10, and flameout but I kept finding I was getting grassy notes in the finished beer and a muddled malt profile. I'll have to do more experimenting.
HSB
Well-Known Member
This is going to sound crazy - heretical almost, but I've started using a really clean, high AA% hop (magnum, galena) at 60min for most of my bittering charge. I then add my flavor/aroma hops starting at 15-10 min with a big flameout addition and maybe a dry hop. For me, I like my English ales to have a firm, clean bitterness followed by a huge malt profile in the middle and to end with a burst of that flowery-fragrant hop aroma. I originally used EKG for bittering, 30 min, 10, and flameout but I kept finding I was getting grassy notes in the finished beer and a muddled malt profile. I'll have to do more experimenting.
It may sound crazy, but this is exactly what I do for my ESB. I bitter with magnum and then do a flavor and aroma addition of EKG.
elkdog
Well-Known Member
I kegged my batch yesterday and last night I decided to give it a taste even though it was uncarbed. Wow! The malt expression in this beer is unbelievable! It's not that sweet-malty you get when a beer underattenuates but a true complex malty flavor. Amber malt has never tasted so good. Even though this beer only had a 1.044 OG, it has the malt intensity and complexity of a beer of 1.060 or higher. Now I know why british brewers tend to use little crystal malt and frequently include adjuncts. This beer has MORE of that beautiful malt flavor I was looking for than the commercial british beers! It tastes more along the lines of a british strong ale or winter warmer without the alcohol. It's nutty, toasty, caramelly and delicious. I can't wait to start pumping out british ales with this technique.
I brewed up a chocolate stout yesterday and pitched some slurry of the 1968 into it. I'm following the same fermentation profile so we'll see if I can consistently get such good results. I pitched yesterday at 3:30 at 63*F and fermentation started very quickly. It just hit 68*F this morning at 10:30 so I'm expecting a little bit more fruity esters this time around. In two weeks or so I'll brew up another bitter and start perfecting my house recipes. Now that I know the secret, there will be no stopping me!
That's great! I made a ******* mistake and crashed my beer in primary. Never having crash cooled a beer, I didn't think much about it. If I had thought about it a bit, I might have figured out the obvious. It sucked about a pint of water through the blowoff tube as it cooled. I'm bottling tomorrow, and assuming my beer isn't f***ed by the suckback, I'll report back in a couple of weeks. Next time I crash cool, it will be in a sealed secondary.
elkdog
Well-Known Member
I splurged on some tap water for this batch.
** Not entirely intelligent question(s) alert **
So when you say "sealed secondary", are you going to use an airlock of any sort? Or just a bucket with a solid lid?
Won't the pressure change when you open it to rack and package increase the chance of oxygenation? Not that it's a huge risk because some minor amount of oxygen on a fresh British beer designed to be drunk relatively quickly would probably only add to the depth of its character.
bierhaus15
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2008
- Messages
- 1,950
- Reaction score
- 448
When I crash cool I remove the carboy bung and place a sanitized balloon over the mouth of the carboy. The balloon prevents air from getting in and contracts and expands as the pressure changes. If I'm fermenting in buckets, I remove the plastic thingy from inside the airlock and put a balloon over the end. No worries about suckback.
Hope your beer wont be affected elkdog.
Hope your beer wont be affected elkdog.
elkdog
Well-Known Member
I like this idea. I don't have space above the fermentor for an airlock, but I can do a balloon. Easier than messing with a secondary, for sure.
OP
OP
KingBrianI
Well-Known Member
I tasted my beer again last night and now that it is carbed slightly, the malt flavors aren't as overwhelming as before. It actually does taste like a bitter and not something bigger. I'm very happy with it and can't wait to taste the casked portion in the 5 L mini keg. I didn't prime it or anything so hopefully it's able to attenuate a little more and get a bit of carbonation. I think I'll plan on drinking it in 2 weeks or so.
The chocolate stout I've got going with 1968 was at 1.022-1.024 this morning so I reduced the temp to 66. I'll go ahead and move it down to 64 this afternoon. The taste was very sharp, I guess due to all the suspended cocoa. That beer definitely still has some coming-together to do.
The chocolate stout I've got going with 1968 was at 1.022-1.024 this morning so I reduced the temp to 66. I'll go ahead and move it down to 64 this afternoon. The taste was very sharp, I guess due to all the suspended cocoa. That beer definitely still has some coming-together to do.
elkdog
Well-Known Member
So is there any logic to thinking the same temperature regime might work with Burton Ale yeast (WLP023, Thames in the Wyeast world)? I'm thinking a Special Bitter with no sugar addition and the WLP023 will be my next English attempt. It seems that the Fuller's schedule gets it to pump out tasty esters early, and then cools things off enough to prevent the yeast from doing too much housecleaning before its nap, so it seems worth a shot.
Bottled my suckback ESB this morning. It still tastes fantastic; I'm calling the experiment a success, and will see how it tastes after bottle conditioning. At bottling, it was better than any English ale I've made. Hopefully that suckback didn't contaminate it, but even so, I know how to make a better bitter now, and how to avoid the suckback as well.
OP
OP
KingBrianI
Well-Known Member
I'm hoping so. My plan is to move on to another british yeast after the 1968 and test it the same way. I don't see why it wouldn't work for just about any yeast.
I wanted to try dropping the temp at the end of fermentation on my brown porter but chickened out. The 1318 I used has been really sluggish at the end, going from 1.020 to 1.016 in four days. I'm concerned if I dropped the temp, it would stop it completely. I'm just not familiar enough with this yeast yet and need to try it with something I've used before.
^^^ Some gentle rousing as things begin to slow down really helps with this yeast. It doesn't need a lot, as it seems to attenuate pretty fully despite being a high flocculator. When roused like that, I generally get 75-80%AA from it. I can't say I've ever tracked it day to day, though, so I couldn't say how much more I got when rousing, only that is does help over the times I haven't bothered.
I haven't played with the fermentation schedule that much with this yeast, but I have used in by necessity at a small variety of temperature ranges. It seems very forgiving in that it tastes and attenuates similarly regardless of what I do to it. It might be worth pulling out a gallon or so from the fermentor and cooling it per the Fuller's schedule to compare to the other. I might do the same sometime soon. I have my next brew all lined up, but I'm running low on the bitter, so that may have to be next in line. I'll post my results if I decide to go this route.
What was the recipe you used again?
I haven't played with the fermentation schedule that much with this yeast, but I have used in by necessity at a small variety of temperature ranges. It seems very forgiving in that it tastes and attenuates similarly regardless of what I do to it. It might be worth pulling out a gallon or so from the fermentor and cooling it per the Fuller's schedule to compare to the other. I might do the same sometime soon. I have my next brew all lined up, but I'm running low on the bitter, so that may have to be next in line. I'll post my results if I decide to go this route.
What was the recipe you used again?
I've been rousing it. I've never had to baby an English yeast like this before. I've made the recipe with WLP037, wy1187, and wy1968 before and have always gotten into the 75%-80% range pretty quickly and always use a starter and a stir plate. The recipe is basically a rip off of JZ's Taddy porter but slightly bigger. Roughly 80% MO, 8% Hugh-Baird Brown, 7% 200L Pale Chocolate, 5% Carastan (light crystal).
Are you talking about going from warm to cool (68 to 64 per the Fullers example), or cool to cold (64 to 44 or whatever)? I assumed Fullers dropped the temp so far before fermentation was done because that beer went into casks for secondary and dropped the final few points there. I thought everyone else in the thread here was crash cooling just after terminal gravity had been reached. I thought the purpose of the final temp drop was to drop all the yeast. Is that not the case?
Also, has anyone ever heard of hop flavor being lost due to crash cooling? This is the first batch I've ever been able to chill suddenly, so I can't say for sure what's going on--but I swear the sample I had the day I turned the dial to 35 was much more hoppy and floral than the sample (pint, really-it was delicious) I drank three days later while running the beer into the keg.
Well, part of the idea of dropping the temp in this case is to not let the yeast clean up too much. So, with a yeast that is not reaching terminal gravity quickly and is being sluggish at the end of fermentation, a temperature drop at terminal gravity kind of negates the purpose since the yeast probably have begun cleaning up a lot during the slow fermentation at the end. Basically, because it is being sluggish, I will have a beer that is similar to one that has remained at fermentation temp for a three week period. Much of what is being challenged here is that a long primary at fermentation temps (3 weeks +) seems to be causing English ales to be too clean and lacking much of the character like that found in commercial examples.
Hmm. Since it is attenuating well already, maybe we could concoct a plan to get a large amount of fermentation done quickly, and then cool at the right time. That way, even if things get sluggish, proper attenuation is achieved. Mashing lower, or maybe some nutrient 24hrs after pitching might work. Hell, I don't know. I'm just brainstorming. Does anyone know how Boddington's fermented?
bierhaus15
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2008
- Messages
- 1,950
- Reaction score
- 448
Well I figured I would post the early results of my little experiment. For those who don't know, I originally pitched some 1187 into a split batch of a simple English bitter. One batch fermented at 68F for 14 days before a D-rest at 70F for another two. This beer was not cold crashed, it stayed at room temp until I 'kegged' it on day 17. However, the other batch was fermented for 10 days until the gravity had begun to stablilize and then I crash cooled it immediately. It remained in the fridge at 43-45F for a few days and was kegged by day 14. Both beers were 'kegged' in a "coors home draft" and carbonated with co2 cartridges to about 2 volumes.
Now for the results: Right off the bat, you can tell the two apart. The one that stayed at room temperature is much cleaner, with just a bit of pleasant diacetyl and some good malt flavor. It still is a bit young, but the malt and hops come through cleanly and well balanced. I don't think I would let this type of a beer sit on the yeast cake past day 21, as you really do lose a lot of malt/yeast character. In contrast, the batch that got cold crashed right as fermentation ended pretty much screams "British yeast." There is much more diacetyl present than the one that got the d-rest, though it's not so much that it reeks of butter. The malt/yeast profile on this one is also much more robust, you get a lot more of that biscuit/toasted malt character and the beer tastes much fresher overall.
In conclusion, I definitely think cold crashing after the bulk of fermentation has completed does make a big difference on the final beer. The cold crashed version has much more malt/yeast flavor, though at the same time isn't as clean tasting as the one that sat at room temperature. I'd say the overall balance of flavors favors the one that sat at room temp, though I still prefer the cold crashed one for its full flavored malt profile. Also, I find the cold crashed version to have more hop flavor/aroma too. My only complaint about the cold crashed version is the diacetyl. I think the way to get around this would be to pitch fresh yeast at bottling/kegging and allow the beer to clean up some of the diacetyl in the keg while at room temp for a few days. I am pretty happy with my results so far, though I think my normal English yeast fermentation schedule is right on target for getting both a clean tasting beer and one that won't lose those English malt and yeast flavors.
Coming up I plan on doing some more experimenting with fermenter geometry and open fermenting. I'll keep everyone posted.
OP
OP
KingBrianI
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the update! It's good to see conclusive results like that. Please report back with how each keg tastes as it continues to age. I've found the yeast and malt character of my beer slowly reducing in the keg. I actually bottled and pasteurized 6 bottles from the keg tonight although two exploded during pasteurization! I'm interested to see what that does to the beer.
I'm interested to see what that does to the beer.
elkdog
Well-Known Member
Well I figured I would post the early results of my little experiment. For those who don't know, I originally pitched some 1187 into a split batch of a simple English bitter. One batch fermented at 68F for 14 days before a D-rest at 70F for another two. This beer was not cold crashed, it stayed at room temp until I 'kegged' it on day 17. However, the other batch was fermented for 10 days until the gravity had begun to stablilize and then I crash cooled it immediately. It remained in the fridge at 43-45F for a few days and was kegged by day 14. Both beers were 'kegged' in a "coors home draft" and carbonated with co2 cartridges to about 2 volumes.
Now for the results: Right off the bat, you can tell the two apart. The one that stayed at room temperature is much cleaner, with just a bit of pleasant diacetyl and some good malt flavor. It still is a bit young, but the malt and hops come through cleanly and well balanced. I don't think I would let this type of a beer sit on the yeast cake past day 21, as you really do lose a lot of malt/yeast character. In contrast, the batch that got cold crashed right as fermentation ended pretty much screams "British yeast." There is much more diacetyl present than the one that got the d-rest, though it's not so much that it reeks of butter. The malt/yeast profile on this one is also much more robust, you get a lot more of that biscuit/toasted malt character and the beer tastes much fresher overall.
In conclusion, I definitely think cold crashing after the bulk of fermentation has completed does make a big difference on the final beer. The cold crashed version has much more malt/yeast flavor, though at the same time isn't as clean tasting as the one that sat at room temperature. I'd say the overall balance of flavors favors the one that sat at room temp, though I still prefer the cold crashed one for its full flavored malt profile. Also, I find the cold crashed version to have more hop flavor/aroma too. My only complaint about the cold crashed version is the diacetyl. I think the way to get around this would be to pitch fresh yeast at bottling/kegging and allow the beer to clean up some of the diacetyl in the keg while at room temp for a few days. I am pretty happy with my results so far, though I think my normal English yeast fermentation schedule is right on target for getting both a clean tasting beer and one that won't lose those English malt and yeast flavors.
Coming up I plan on doing some more experimenting with fermenter geometry and open fermenting. I'll keep everyone posted.
Thanks for this update! It's interesting to see roughly the same results produced with the British/Ringwood strain, which I favor for slightly bigger English ales, and especially to read you comparison of the "standard" homebrew fermentation against this more manipulated one. I'm plotting a winter warmer (not spiced, but rather a darker, malty English ale) to be brewed in the fall, and this strain was what I planned to use- I'll strongly consider the cold crash technique.
