Wyeast Private Collection: Belgian Stout

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mhenry41h

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I just brewed a Dry Stout, but I used this strain to see what happens. I tasted a small sample of my starter after I cold crashed it and I'd describe what I tasted as moderately estery as well as moderately phenolic. It would make a scintillating Strong Blonde. I'm curious to see if any of these flavors can shine through the roasted malts.
 
Fabulous strain. My starter had a very nice but restrained Belgian character that I feared wouldn't cut through the roasted malts. Well, it does, but again, it's quite restrained. It tastes very much like a Dry Stout but a slight Belgian complexity melds in quite beautifully. Definitely give this strain a shot.
 
Im not sure what makes it a "Belgian Stout" strain other than the fact that Brasserie Ellezelleois uses it in their Hercules Stout. The starter really tasted "saisony." Im just fairly impressed that you can actually taste the character of the yeast through nearly 12% of roasted malts. Its just a delicious little note that adds seriously nice complexity. I really like it. Id like to try the strain on a light Belgian.
 
mhenry41h said:
Im not sure what makes it a "Belgian Stout" strain other than the fact that Brasserie Ellezelleois uses it in their Hercules Stout. The starter really tasted "saisony." Im just fairly impressed that you can actually taste the character of the yeast through nearly 12% of roasted malts. Its just a delicious little note that adds seriously nice complexity. I really like it. Id like to try the strain on a light Belgian.

I have 3522 Ardennes from wyeast and was thinking of using that in a stout. Is this strain similar to yours?
 
Based on the yeast character of this strain and the flavors it imparted into my starter, I think I would feel comfortable using most if not any of the Belgian strains in a stout. I think you would be just fine. In my honest opinion, I thought my starter had more of the phenolic Belgian character than Belgian esters. That said, I think Ardennes would be a spcifically good choice as it is estery but not wildly so.
 
mhenry41h said:
Based on the yeast character of this strain and the flavors it imparted into my starter, I think I would feel comfortable using most if not any of the Belgian strains in a stout. I think you would be just fine. In my honest opinion, I thought my starter had more of the phenolic Belgian character than Belgian esters. That said, I think Ardennes would be a spcifically good choice as it is estery but not wildly so.

Thanks. I'm definitely going to try this soon. Would a half pound if roasted and half pound of black malt be too overpowering for a 6 gallon batch? I've gone a little too soft with the black malts on my last couple stouts, so I want it somewhat more stoutly.
 
Thanks. I'm definitely going to try this soon. Would a half pound if roasted and half pound of black malt be too overpowering for a 6 gallon batch? I've gone a little too soft with the black malts on my last couple stouts, so I want it somewhat more stoutly.

I dont think it would be too much. Black malt, to me, lends an ashen/burned flavor that I try to avoid. I think alot of homebrewers make the mistake of blasting the snot out of their stouts with heavy roast and they just become acrid. I love Roasted Barley and I like to get a touch of Chocolate malt in there as well. I think a touch of it lends a little complexity to the roasted flavors and keeps stouts from becoming one dimensional. My rule of thumb is to keep my roasted malts at or under 10% of my grist bill and then I throw some token Carafa III to really blacken the color with minimal flavor impact. I think if you are making a Dry Stout that you might want to keep the heavy roast flavors down. I always think of Guiness and how it is pretty tame in the roast department.

This is my recipe:

07 lb 00 oz - Simpson's Golden Promise (59.9%)
02 lb 04 oz - Briess Flaked Barley (19.2%)
00 lb 14 oz - Crisp Roasted Barley (7.5%)
00 lb 08 oz - Briess Flaked Oats (4.3%)
00 lb 08 oz - Weyermann Acidulated (4.3%)
00 lb 05 oz - Crisp Chocolate (2.7%)
00 lb 04 oz - Weyermann Carafa III (2.1%)

In hindsight, I would have done a protein rest due to the flaked adjuncts. My fermentation stalled at 1.020 and I think its due to longer chain sugars of those ingredients. It wasnt yeast health, pitch size, or aeration. It also wasn't due to a strain that isnt highly attenuative. I added Brett to take it down to an FG of 1.009. I also mashed at 148 so it wasn't a result of mash temp. Maybe somebody else can tell me otherwise, but the high % of flaked adjuncts seems like the only reason left...
 
mhenry41h said:
I dont think it would be too much. Black malt, to me, lends an ashen/burned flavor that I try to avoid. I think alot of homebrewers make the mistake of blasting the snot out of their stouts with heavy roast and they just become acrid. I love Roasted Barley and I like to get a touch of Chocolate malt in there as well. I think a touch of it lends a little complexity to the roasted flavors and keeps stouts from becoming one dimensional. My rule of thumb is to keep my roasted malts at or under 10% of my grist bill and then I throw some token Carafa III to really blacken the color with minimal flavor impact. I think if you are making a Dry Stout that you might want to keep the heavy roast flavors down. I always think of Guiness and how it is pretty tame in the roast department.

This is my recipe:

07 lb 00 oz - Simpson's Golden Promise (59.9%)
02 lb 04 oz - Briess Flaked Barley (19.2%)
00 lb 14 oz - Crisp Roasted Barley (7.5%)
00 lb 08 oz - Briess Flaked Oats (4.3%)
00 lb 08 oz - Weyermann Acidulated (4.3%)
00 lb 05 oz - Crisp Chocolate (2.7%)
00 lb 04 oz - Weyermann Carafa III (2.1%)

In hindsight, I would have done a protein rest due to the flaked adjuncts. My fermentation stalled at 1.020 and I think its due to longer chain sugars of those ingredients. It wasnt yeast health, pitch size, or aeration. It also wasn't due to a strain that isnt highly attenuative. I added Brett to take it down to an FG of 1.009. I also mashed at 148 so it wasn't a result of mash temp. Maybe somebody else can tell me otherwise, but the high % of flaked adjuncts seems like the only reason left...

Why are you adding the acidulated malt? Aren't dark roasted grains pretty good at dropping the mash pH? Maybe you are getting poor attenuation because your mash pH is too low. I don't normally check mine, have you ever taken a reading?
 
Why are you adding the acidulated malt? Aren't dark roasted grains pretty good at dropping the mash pH? Maybe you are getting poor attenuation because your mash pH is too low. I don't normally check mine, have you ever taken a reading?

With the base being a Dry Stout, I was attempting to get a twinge of tartness in the beer and I thought that the acid malt in conjunction with the roasated malt would give it to me. I dont notice any tartness at this point but maybe once things settle down in the bottle it will be there. I had the same thought that perhaps the mash PH was too low, but I like to brew sours and Ive even added up to 10% acid malt in a beer and never got attenuation problems so I dont think that is the issue but then again...Im just sort of perplexed with this one.
 
It's definitely not too much acidulated on its own, but you also have dark roasted malts and only 60% base malt. I wonder if you are getting good conversion of the starches in the flaked adjuncts, but only to the point of more complex dextrine long chain sugars the yeast can't eat up - ie you've lost beta amylase but have sufficient alpha to do initial conversion.

Maybe try six row and check the pH.
 
Best way to add the twang would be to add some lactic acid to taste to the batch after it is done fermenting. As was mentioned I would not use acid malt with all those dark grains just because of the PH issue.
 
I brewed with this strain recently, be sure to watch your temperatures! My fermented explosively in fine Belgian style.
 
It's definitely not too much acidulated on its own, but you also have dark roasted malts and only 60% base malt. I wonder if you are getting good conversion of the starches in the flaked adjuncts, but only to the point of more complex dextrine long chain sugars the yeast can't eat up - ie you've lost beta amylase but have sufficient alpha to do initial conversion.

Maybe try six row and check the pH.

I agree that this is the most likely culprit. I had a strong and intense fermentation so I was truly surprised when I took the gravity. Im convinced that I had a dextrinous wort. I was concerned that I might miss my gravity but I actually hit a few points high. Generally, I find that my mashes with roasted malts tend to miss a few points low. At any rate, Im still glad that I got to add some Brett and make this unique. somehow, the Brett, Roast, and Belgian characters lend a somewhat "bourbony" like note.
 
This beer is a pretty remarkable stout. For having Belgian yeast, Saison yeast, Brett, and a dry hop on it...you cant really pick out one particular thing. Its noticably complex, but wonderfully complex in the aspect that you'd be challenged tell me what you are tasting. I think, in time, the Brett will become noticable which I invite with open arms. I just want it to be a nice note and not an overwhelming flavor. I have 8 750's of it corked and stashed in the basement...it will be fun to revisit this in a year or so...
 
mhenry41h said:
What are you making with it joety?

I made 10 gallons of Stout
Maris otter base
1 lb roasted barley
1 lb black barley
3/4 lb chocolate malt
3/4 lb Special b
1 lb D2 candi syrup
Hopped with goldings and fuggles
My OG was around 1.065, haven't take an FG reading yet
 

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