Troeg's Mad Elf

theck said:

2+ weeks in and only at 1.022... give it another week and check.

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That is about where the calculator said it would go to not having the cherries in the equation. I only told you where my finishing FG was after the cherries were added. you might need to add the cherries in order for it to drop the rest of the way...Damn i wish i had taken a reading before i put cherries in. I would have been able to help you a lot more.

seckert said:

That is about where the calculator said it would go to not having the cherries in the equation. I only told you where my finishing FG was after the cherries were added. you might need to add the cherries in order for it to drop the rest of the way...Damn i wish i had taken a reading before i put cherries in. I would have been able to help you a lot more.

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No worries. I popped in the cherries in a secondary, it's bubbling but not super active. Either way it's beer ha, just might not be high in abv which is kinda ok the orig elf really can do a number on you after 2 or 3.

1.016 after cherries and a week in the secondary, getting there, super hot but the color is pretty good. Barely taste the cherries. Going to snag some Mad Elf this week to compare once I get it into the keg and carb'd.

There was an article in men's journal on the best holiday beers. Mad Elf was one of them and they did a little writeup on it. They said "a sugar" is used to make it surprisingly dry in addition to honey and sweet and sour cherries.

Makes me think that they probably use Belgian candy sugar.

What do you all think?

Its possible but I have no real idea. Why would they even need candi if they put honey in? they are both extremely fermentable... I had the good fortune of trying Seckert's ME clone (delicious! :rockin and I did notice that the real thing was drier. Candi could be a start.

WissaBrewGuy said:

Its possible but I have no real idea. Why would they even need candi if they put honey in? they are both extremely fermentable... I had the good fortune of trying Seckert's ME clone (delicious! :rockin and I did notice that the real thing was drier. Candi could be a start.

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Is it possible they add the honey after fermentation for flavor only(and pasteurize before bottling) and use candi sugar to dry it out earlier (like end of boil/whirlpool)? I'm just brainstorming here, sorry if I'm muddying up the cloning process.

Thanks WissaBrewGuy!
Maybe next year I will add some candi to see what happens. of course it was good the way it is so I am hesitant to change something major as I would be sad to mess it up...especially when it is so expensive to make and takes so long to mellow...maybe some 1 gal batches over the summer to see what happens...

Finished at 1.016 myself (8.14%+ is enough for me anyhow). Couldn't hold off anymore, 2 weeks in secondary is a long wait ha... In the Keg now and waiting, going to be another long couple weeks. Have a bottle of Elf saved to compare.

theck said:

Finished at 1.016 myself (8.14%+ is enough for me anyhow). Couldn't hold off anymore, 2 weeks in secondary is a long wait ha... In the Keg now and waiting, going to be another long couple weeks. Have a bottle of Elf saved to compare.

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it finished at 1.016 which would be 8.14% but how are you accounting for the sugar added and then fermented off by with the cherries? I am not sure how you would do that...that's why I think the estimates might be off when adding any fruit...if I was to guess I would think it is probably higher than 8.14%...anyone else have an opinion?

seckert said:

it finished at 1.016 which would be 8.14% but how are you accounting for the sugar added and then fermented off by with the cherries? I am not sure how you would do that...that's why I think the estimates might be off when adding any fruit...if I was to guess I would think it is probably higher than 8.14%...anyone else have an opinion?

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Ha that's why I have the +. The proper way I think is to take a reading before you add then after, the difference you need to add into the calculation. I didn't bother because I know my start and finish and the cherries just add a little more to it, so it will be about 8.14ish. Honestly I don't get too caught up on % I am mostly interested in when the yeast are done. I think when I moved it it was about the end of it, plus I was getting anxious to drink it maybe on new years. Ha.

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Had my first Carbed taste yesterday, still needs to age but was darn tasty! Finished at 1.008 for 11.25% before the cherries.
Going to let it sit in the keg for a while then bottle most of it just too dangerous having it on tap!

.

theck said:

Ha that's why I have the +. The proper way I think is to take a reading before you add then after, the difference you need to add into the calculation. I didn't bother because I know my start and finish and the cherries just add a little more to it, so it will be about 8.14ish. Honestly I don't get too caught up on % I am mostly interested in when the yeast are done. I think when I moved it it was about the end of it, plus I was getting anxious to drink it maybe on new years. Ha.

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I don't normally care so much about ABV either, but I am curious as to how you would figure it out...I wonder if they cherries would add .5 % or would it be more? I am already wanting to brew another batch of this, but it wouldn't be ready until the spring so I think I am going to hold off, unless I do some 1 gallon batches to play around with the recipe.

Looks great ChefRex! yes it is dangerous! with great ABV comes great responsibility! haha!

seckert said:

I don't normally care so much about ABV either, but I am curious as to how you would figure it out...I wonder if they cherries would add .5 % or would it be more? I am already wanting to brew another batch of this, but it wouldn't be ready until the spring so I think I am going to hold off, unless I do some 1 gallon batches to play around with the recipe.

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I would bet it would add a %, maybe two. Think when you get that difference from before and after you add the cherries you then add that to your OG?

I might try and brew another soon and let it sit longer in the primary. We are having a Friday the 13th party in June that I'll serve it at. This is one of the reasons I'd like to step up to 10 gallons so I can have the other 5 gallins sit longer and mellow out while I keg the first.

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Been carbing for a week and grabbed a sample, wow... Love it. Think mine is more mellow, maybe because less %, but it's very good. I can't wait to compare it but think I might like it more. Does anyone else think this year's mad elf is a bit hot on the alcoholic? I don't remember last year's batch but think I could drink it much easier than this year's. I have another week before it's good and carbed though.

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I cant really say. Since i dont live in PA and only get some here and there if i come home for the holidays. I know i had some from this years batch and mine side by side and mine seemed hotter than theirs did. I know theirs had way more time to mellow than mine did though...

Mine was pretty hot after I carbonated. It's been about a month and now it's really smooth. So let it sit and it will get better.

Well just like the orig mad elf, easy to drink too many... Throbbing headache this morn like the real stuff. Mine must be pretty well on ha...

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Wife and I did blind taste tests and both considered mine better ha... color and smell is pretty well on too.

my wife and I liked mine better...maybe it is because I brew my beer with love! and a high BAC as well! haha!

theck said:

Well just like the orig mad elf, easy to drink too many... Throbbing headache this morn like the real stuff. Mine must be pretty well on ha...

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How much cherries did you use? Canned or fresh? I can't wait to brew this one.

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2 cans of tart Oregon and 2 bags of frozen sweet... Might step up the frozen slightly to another bag.... Taste is great but looking for a slight bit more.

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I used two cans of sweet and two cans of tart. It turned out perfect.

I am getting ready to rack mine to secondary. I have fresh cherries to add. I plan to freeze then thaw the cherries. Do I need to take to pits out? Read other posts here and some said leave them in and others say take them out. Which way should I go for a good clone?

Had another taste to end the night, need to open a bottle of the original soon to compare soon.

tbred said:

I am getting ready to rack mine to secondary. I have fresh cherries to add. I plan to freeze then thaw the cherries. Do I need to take to pits out? Read other posts here and some said leave them in and others say take them out. Which way should I go for a good clone?

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I'd leave them... Doubt they would mess with the taste. Do you have tart fresh or using only sweet?

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To those of you that attempted the clone this year:

Which recipe did you wind up using?
How did it compare and what would you alter with the recipe you used?

I'm planning on making this sometime in the next month and letting it age until the fall. Any input in advance would be great.

Here is mine and it turned out great IMO... I would maybe add one more bag of sweet cherries though. I used 2 cans of tart and 2 bags of sweet. Left in the primary for 3 weeks, added cherries/Orange Peel to secondary and sat for 12 days.

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Mad Elf Clone
Brewer:
Asst Brewer:
Style: Fruit Beer
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7.74 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.24 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.089 SG
Estimated Color: 11.1 SRM
Estimated IBU: 13.7 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 76.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 82.9 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
13 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 75.6 %
2 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 2 11.6 %
3.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 3 1.1 %
1.00 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00 %] - Boil Hop 4 11.6 IBUs
0.50 oz Saaz [4.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 5 2.1 IBUs
1.0 pkg SafBrew Specialty Ale (DCL/Fermentis #T- Yeast 6 -
2 lbs Honey (1.0 SRM) Sugar 7 11.6 %
2.50 lb Sweet and Sour Cherries (Secondary 5.0 d Flavor 8 -
1.50 oz Orange Peel, Sweet (Secondary 5.0 days) Spice 9 -


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 17 lbs 3.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 5.18 gal of water at 162.7 F 152.0 F 60 min

Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (Drain mash tun , 4.82gal) of 168.0 F water
Notes:
------
Lid blew off bucket after a day... put into carboy!
SG 1.078 -> 1.75 weeks 1.028 -> 2 weeks 1.022

Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gone for me... good stuff, probably be a while before I make it again, mostly due to cost but also the wife and I got the mad elf headaches often on it.

making another batch of this today...a buddy of mine really liked it when he had it over the holidays. he said he would buy the stuff to make it...so I figured why not. plus can change a couple things.
I used Belgian pale choc this time. still 3 oz. hoping that since the pale is lighter it will help it be more red. Fermenting at 19* C this time, which is a bit cooler than last time. Also I made a 1L starter...then decanted and added another 1.1-1.3L worth of wort to make a 1.5L stepped up starter. Since this is a bigger beer I think last time with just a regular starter I underpitched. Guess will find out if any of this changes final product!

Seckert I plan on trying the second bottle you sent me this week! I'll let you know when I try it.

Going to be brewing this up really soon, just picked up the cherries

WissaBrewGuy said:

Seckert I plan on trying the second bottle you sent me this week! I'll let you know when I try it.

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That would be great! I am curious to see how well it aged out since mine was gone before i could age any.

poptarts said:

Going to be brewing this up really soon, just picked up the cherries

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If you havent brewed this before...just remember 2 words "blowoff tube"!

I have a 13 gallon vittle vault and I plan on making a 7 gallon batch so that's 6 gallons of head space, but yes I will do a blow off as well. Never can be to sure. I learned my lesson with my abyss clone This image is after the lid blew off for the 3rd time with the blowoff tube and fermcap.

seckert said:

If you havent brewed this before...just remember 2 words "blowoff tube"!

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Ha... Now to remember that next time.

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theck said:

Ha... Now to remember that next time.

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I brewed this again on Sunday. Pitched yeast Monday early before heading to work. I knew i needed a blow off tube so i started with one. Came home Monday and it was chugging along. woke up tuesday to the same. I thought maybe it would be ok since i am fermenting at a lower temp this time. Well I got home last night from work to find my blow off tube clogged and the top of the bucket buldging. It also had overfilled the big mason jar i had tube going in. Im just glad i caught it before it exploded. I pulled off hose and got a face full of crap!

poptarts...I think you will be good with 6 gallons of head space...of course this is the most violent beer i have ever had ferment!

seckert said:

I brewed this again on Sunday. Pitched yeast Monday early before heading to work. I knew i needed a blow off tube so i started with one. Came home Monday and it was chugging along. woke up tuesday to the same. I thought maybe it would be ok since i am fermenting at a lower temp this time. Well I got home last night from work to find my blow off tube clogged and the top of the bucket buldging. It also had overfilled the big mason jar i had tube going in. Im just glad i caught it before it exploded. I pulled off hose and got a face full of crap!

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Seckert,

Which recipe did you use? Also I'm interested in how much mash water you used? I am new to all grain and I'm having issues reaching my efficiency. I think it's my mash volume.

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