Big breweries using small names to conceal themselves?

fifelee said:

If there we two equal (price & flavor) beers one local and one BMC. Which would you buy?

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The one that tasted the best to me, regardless of who made it and where . I'm not gonna drink piss, just because it's made by a local micro brewery (Heck there's a few local microbrewries that I don't spend my money with, because I don't like their products.)

Crap is still crap regardless of whether the chamber pot it is in was made by "acme chamber pots-a worldwide subsidiary of bigcorp ltd", or hand tossed by an artisan potter in some hippie commune.

Revvy said:

The one that tasted the best to me, regardless of who made it. I'm not gonna drink piss, just because it's made by a micro brewery. Crap is still crap regardless of whether the chamber pot it is in, was made by acme chamber pots a worldwide subsidiary of bigcorp, or hand tossed by an artisan potter in a commune.

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What about if it was piss-tasting beer made by nubile young princesses?

Gotta remember the list posted by steak starting part of this is flawed. Alot of the beers listed there are not brewed by bmc. stella for 1. remember anheiser was bought out. so just because a beer is imported under that label does not mean they made it. But vouch what revvy said my$ goes with the best flavor made local or in timbuckto

AZ_IPA said:

What about if it was piss-tasting beer made by nubile young princesses?

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It depend on how hot she is....But more than likely the marxist proletariat chamber maid is hotter, but then again she probably doesn't eat meat or shave her pits either...so I might have to settle on the product from "big monarchy,"

This is just another persons .02, but a fact that should be considered in this argument is the fact that the vast majority of beer distributors regardless of what they are selling are locally owned companies. There is no vast BMC conspiracy to gain as much shelf space in your local wal-mart, granted the local companies are pressured by the big suits to maintain market share, but at the end of the day it comes down to a person that might live in your neighborhood trying to support themselves and their family which is just as important as supporting the brewpub down the street. Do whats right for you, drink what you like, spend your money how you like, and let everyone else do the same

Revvy said:

They even have a brewpub now;

Bell's Brewery

(Brewpub)

655 W Irving Park Rd (Northalsted)
Chicago, IL 60613
(773) 472-3371[

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Sweet! I'm so going there now. I had no idea this place existed.

madipop said:

This is just another persons .02, but a fact that should be considered in this argument is the fact that the vast majority of beer distributors regardless of what they are selling are locally owned companies. There is no vast BMC conspiracy to gain as much shelf space in your local wal-mart, granted the local companies are pressured by the big suits to maintain market share, but at the end of the day it comes down to a person that might live in your neighborhood trying to support themselves and their family which is just as important as supporting the brewpub down the street. Do whats right for you, drink what you like, spend your money how you like, and let everyone else do the same

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It never even occured to me...But yeah, those distributors are local companies, employing our neighbors....So even those folks buying budlight lime (shudder) are helping to support the local economy.

Wow Great info here guys. I've learned a lot of new info, without the whole thing degrading into a bunch of arguments.
It's a relief to know there isn't some great conspiracy driving the largest makers. Their sure size does give them distributor, and shelf space muscle of course - but thats just business. If Coke doesn't grab half an isle, Pepsi will be more than happy to do it for them.
And the smaller guys aren't that altruistic - very true esp. at 14$ a sixer.
and we have all seen the hops "shortage" nonsense lately.
Good stuff. Thanks! I have a movie to watch and a book or two to read.

A coworker of mine has relatives that own a local distributer. She worked there web she was younger. She remembers the ahb sales rep coming in every so often and wanting to hang up promo posters in the front window, problem is, that space was occupied by a giant yuengling poster. Well, one day she was stocking shelves and noticed the salesman arrive. He came over, made some small talk Wandered around a bit, checked on his product, and left. Soon after he left, she noticed that the yuengling banner was gone, replaced by a giant bud poster.

Additionally, she said ahb routinely offered tickets to sports events and stuff in order to get better product placement.



I agree, corporations are not inherently evil. But they will do whatever necessary to ensure their dominance and profits. It's up to the head honchos to play by the rules. Unfortunately, a lot don't.

krazydave said:

So now I'm curious... Is there a list of these "fake" breweries someplace? Or have any of you run into other breweries like this that don't really exist?

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Don't exist or you would have no idea what you were buying?

DISCLAIMER: Please do not quote the following info in this thread it is just to much to contend with. Also Please do not correct me, my spelling, grammar or lack there of. This was copy pastaed from the wiki because 1 million monkeys with keyboards can not be wrong...remember YOU asked for this...

INBEV:

Budweiser/Bud Light/Bud/Budweiser Select/Budweiser Select 55/Bud Ice/Bud Ice Light/Budweiser Brew Masters' Private Reserve/Bud Dry/Bud Silver/Bud Extra/Budweiser+Bud Light Chelada/Budweiser American Ale/Budweiser NA/Bud Light Lime/Bud Light Golden Wheat/Budweiser 66/

Michelob and variations as:/Michelob Honey Lager/Michelob Pale Ale/Michelob Marzen/Michelob Pumpkin Spice Ale/Michelob Winter's Bourbon Cask Ale/AmberBock/Michelob Ultra/Seasonals:Michelob Bavarian Wheat (summer)/Michelob Marzen (fall)/Michelob Porter (winter)/Michelob Pale Ale (spring)/Michelob Golden Draft/ Michelob Golden Draft Light/Michelob Ultra/Michelob Ultra Amber/Michelob ULTRA Lime Cactus Michelob ULTRA Pomegranate Raspberry/Michelob ULTRA Tuscan Orange Grapefruit

Busch/Busch Light/Busch Ice/Busch NA

Rolling Rock/Rock Green Light/Rock Light/Rolling Rock Red

Natural Light/Natural Ice

Shock Top/ Land Shark Lager/King Cobra/Hurricane/Green Valley Brewing Company/Tilt/Ziegenbock "Brewed exclusively for Texas"/Tequiza

Minority ownership brands: Red Hook Brewing/Widmer Brothers Brewery/Grupo Modelo

Craft beer alliances: Goose Island Brewery/Kona Brewing Company/Fordham Brewing Company/Old Dominion Brewing Company

All taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anheuser-Busch_brands#Brand_variation


Not to say the other side SABMiller-Molson-Coors are any better:

Molsen coors brands:
Coors/Coors Light/Heineken/Killian's Irish Red/Extra Gold/Keystone/Keystone Light/Keystone Ice/Zima/Blue Moon/Pale Moon/Rising Moon/Honey Moon/Harvest Moon/Full Moon/Winterfest/Wildwood Westlake lager/Coors NA

UK:
Allbright/Arc/Breaker/Caffrey's Irish Ale/Carling

Stones orange can:
Coors/Grolsch/Hancock's/Lamot/Mitchells & Butler/Stones Bitter/Toby/Worthington/Worthington Bitter/Worthington White Shield/Worthington Red Shield/Reef

Molson/Molson Canadian/Molson Canadian Sub-Zero/Molson Canadian Light/Molson Canadian 67/Molson Canadian Ice/Molson Canadian Cold Shots 6.0/Molson Canadian Cold Shots 8.0/Molson Dry/Molson Exel/Molson Export/Molson Golden/Molson Ice/Molson Kick/Molson M/Molson Stock Ale/Molson XXX/Black Ice/Calgary Beer (Only available in Saskatchewan)/Carling Black Label/Old Style Pilsner/Rickard's Dark/Rickard's Red/Rickard's Honey Brown/Rickard's White/Laurentide/Molson Extra (only available in Newfoundland)/Dominion Ale (only available in Newfoundland)/Black Horse (only available in Newfoundland)/India Beer (only available in Newfoundland)/Carling Black Label Extra Old Stock Malt Liquor (formerly known as O'Keefe's Extra Old Stock before 2003)/Caffrey's/Old Vienna/Standard Lager (only available in Manitoba)

Molson partnered brands in Canada:Corona/Negra Modelo/Heineken/Fosters/Miller Genuine Draft/Tiger


Discontinued:
Aspen Edge/ Blair's Barvarian Beer/Coors Malted Milk (non-alcoholic, formula later acquired by Mars Candy)/Coors Red Light/Coors Dry (western US only)/Coors Artic Ice [sic]/Coors Cutter (non-alcoholic) now Coors NA/Eisbock (seasonal - spring)/Golden Lager/Herman Joseph's 1868 (now relaunched by AC Golden Brewing Company as Herman Joseph's Private Reserve)/ Oktoberfest (seasonal - fall)/ Turbo 1000/Weizenbier (seasonal - summer)/Zima Gold/All Zima Products 2008/Java/Screamers

As seen from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molson_Coors_brands:

As we all know Molson-Coors is now joined with SABMILLER.

SABMILLER BRANDS:
SABMILLER ownes all the following breweries:

Botswana brewery:
Chibuku Shake Shake/Hansa Marzen Gold

Canarias Brewery:
Dorada/Tropical and brews under licence various global brands, such as Carlsberg, Pilsner Urquell, and Guinness.

Castle brewery:
Castle Lager

Delta Corporation Zimbabwe
Eagle Lager/Castle Lager/Golden Pilsner/Bolingers Lager/Zambezi Lager/Lion Lager/Chibuku Opaque Beer

Dreher brewery:
Arany szok/Dreher Classic

Cerveceria Hondurea (Hondurean Brewery):
Barena/Port-Royal/Imperial/Salva-Vida

Kompania Piwowarska breweries:
Tyskie logo

Lech Premium/Lech Pils/Lech Mocny/Tyskie Gronie/Tyskie Ksice/ubr/Dbowe Mocne

La Constancia brewery:
Pilsener/Golden Light/Regia/Suprema

Mozambique brewery:
2M/Lauretina Clara/Lauretina Preta/Manica

Nile brewery:
Chairman's Extra Strong Beer (ESB)/Nile Special Lager

Peroni brewery:
Nastro Azzurro

Plzesk Prazdroj brewery:
Pilsner Urquell/Gambrinus/Gambrinus Dia with lower sugar content/Gambrinus Premium

Radegast brewery:
Radegast Birell/Radegast Original/Radegast Premium

Tanzanian breweries:
Kilimanjaro 2/Balimi

Colombian breweries (Bavaria):
Aguila/Aguila Light/Aguila Imperial (Yearly special production)/Brava (No longer produced)/Costea/Club Colombia/Pilsen/Poker

Peruvian breweries (Backus):
Arequipea/Cristal/Cusquea/Cusquea Light

Ecuadorian breweries (Cerveceria Nacional):
Pilsener/Pilsener Light/Club Premium/Conquer/Dorada/Pony Malta/Agua Manantial con gas y sin gas


Other breweries:
Atlas/Balboa/Blue Sword/Brutal Fruits/Carling Black Label/Ciuca/Club Shandy/Del Altiplano/Dog In The Fog/Gran Riserva/Green Leaves/Golden Light/Golden Pilsener/Haywards [20]/Hansa Pilsener/Huadan Dry Beer/Huadan Yale/Knock Out/Kobnyai Sr/Largo/Legenda/Lion Lager/Lowen/Malta Arequipea/Malta Cusquea/Malta Polar/Maluti Premium Lager/Mosi Lager/Moya Kaluga/Nastro Azzurro/N'gola/New Three Star/Pilsner Urquell/Port Royal/Raffo/Raiz/Redd's Apple/Redds Dry/Redds Premium Cold/Redd's Sun/Regia Extra/Rhino Lager/Royal Challenge Premium Lager/Safari/Salva Vida/San Juan/Saris Light/Saris Dark/Saris Premium/Sarita/Shengquan/Shenyang/Singo/Sip/Smadny mnich Light/Snow beer 11P/Stejar/Sterling Light Lager/Stone Strong Lager/Suprema/Tianjin/Timioreana/Topvar/Tusker/Tri Bogatyrya Bochkovoye/Tri Bogatyrya Svetloye/Tropical Pils/Tropical Premium/Ursus Premium/Velkopopovick Kozel/Velkopopovick Kozel Cerny/Velkopopovick Kozel Premium/Velkopopovick Kozel Svetly/Vitamalt/Whisky Black/Whrer/X-Cape/Yingshi/Zero/Zolotaya Bochka Klassicheskoye (Golden Barrel Classic)/Zolotaya Bochka Svetloye (Golden Barrel Light)/Zolotaya Bochka Vyderzhannoye (Golden Barrel Aged)/Zubr (Bison)

Miller Brewing co brands:
Miller Chill/Miller Genuine Draft/Miller Genuine Draft Light/Miller High Life/Miller Lite

Miller subsidiaries' brands:
Icehouse/St. Louis/Olde English 800 Malt Liquor/Mickey's Malt Liquor/Milwaukee's Best/Milwaukee's Best Ice/Milwaukee's Best Light

Henry Weinhard:
Amber Light/Blue Boar Pale Ale/Hefeweizen/Northwest Trail/Private Reserve

Leinenkugel:
Classic Amber/Berry Weiss/Creamy Dark/Fireside Nut Brown (Winter Seasonal)/Honey Weiss/Light/1888 Bock (Spring Seasonal)/Oktoberfest (Autumn Seasonal)/Original/Red Lager/Big Eddy Russian Imperial Stout (limited time beginning November, 2010)/Summer Shandy (Summer Seasonal)/Sunset Wheat

Non-beer brands

SABMiller is one of the worlds largest Coca-Cola bottlers and has carbonated soft drinks bottling operations in 14 markets.

Brands produced include

* Appletiser
* Bibo
* Bon Aqua
* Coca-Cola
* Cristal water
* Fanta
* Grapetiser
* Guaran Backus
* Just Juice
* Malta Leona
* Malta Leona Cool
* Milo
* Minute Maid
* Nestea
* Nevada
* Play
* Pony Malta
* Valpr
* Sabor
* Sparkling Grenadilla
* Sparletta
* Sprite
* TAB
* Tropical
* Tutti Frutti
* Viva

As seen here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SABMiller_brands

I like BEER.

Period.

Sometimes I want a nice ice cold Corona. SOmetimes nothing but a Bigfoot will do. And then there are days all I want is the latest slightly funky unrefined experiment from my fermentors.

I don't care where it comes from - so long as I have the beer I want , when I want it. I have a fridge that is 40% Sierra products, 10 % BM(C) , and 50 % homebrew / trials of brews I have not had before.

I kinda like it that way.

Thanks for that list! Exactly what I was looking for.

By saying "don't exist", I meant that in terms of the Green Valley Brewing Company that's been mentioned was not a brewery that was bought out, it is in fact a AB plant, there's no sign of it existing other than an address which will take you to that AB plant.

One thing that drives me nucking futz here in Portland are people who hate on Widmer for their affiliation with Anheuser Busch.

Yes. They are using AB to put their Hefe out to millions. But guess what? Instead of taking that Bud money and sitting on millions of $$$ while offering mediocre products, guess what they did?

They used it to GET BETTER.

Deadlift, Drifter, KGB, Pitch Black IPA to name a few.

Thanks to that deal with AB, I can now buy a kickass 9.5% ABV RIS at the grocery store for $6.99 / 6 pack.

That is doing it RIGHT as far as I am concerned.

joetothemo said:

One thing that drives me nucking futz here in Portland are people who hate on Widmer for their affiliation with Anheuser Busch.

Yes. They are using AB to put their Hefe out to millions. But guess what? Instead of taking that Bud money and sitting on millions of $$$ while offering mediocre products, guess what they did?

They used it to GET BETTER.

Deadlift, Drifter, KGB, Pitch Black IPA to name a few.

Thanks to that deal with AB, I can now buy a kickass 9.5% ABV RIS at the grocery store for $6.99 / 6 pack.

That is doing it RIGHT as far as I am concerned.

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Yeah, it's funny, but when you see stuff like this, and even read Ambitious Brew, you start to realize it's a lot less black and white as Beer Wars would have us all believe.

I agree Revvy - Ambitious Brew should be required reading for anyone wanting to debate the American beer scene...

Side note. Miller and Coors are still separate companies, they only merged their American operations. Their international operations are still independent of one another.

AZ_IPA said:

I agree Revvy - Ambitious Brew should be required reading for anyone wanting to debate the American beer scene...

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Not available for kindle download :-(

Side note: no arguments were made (by me anyway) against the product of bmc. My gripe is in their business proceedings.

I'm perfectly aware that American light lager is the result of mass marketing, the result of trying to find the beer that was the most appealing to the most people, occurring mostly after prohibition (according to the history channel).

AZ_IPA said:

I agree Revvy - Ambitious Brew should be required reading for anyone wanting to debate the American beer scene...

Click to expand...

Library "hold request" submitted. Thanks for the rec.

o4_srt said:

I'm perfectly aware that American light lager is the result of mass marketing, the result of trying to find the beer that was the most appealing to the most people, occurring mostly after prohibition (according to the history channel).

Click to expand...

No it wasn't, that's the historical innacuracy that Ogle's book disproved. If you can't find the book listen to the podcasts I linked and read what I wrote.....It was a product of the 1860's, and was created as an alternative to heavy beers which orignally provided much needed diatary calories. But as America became prosperous and meat was consumed with every meal americans desired a lighter drink, so the brewers had to come up with something or die. This was compounded by the use of american 6-row barley which made of heavier hazy beers, that warranted the more expensive use of adjucnts such as rice and corn, to make it less hazy and heavy....That style of beer was around for 60 years before prohibition even happened.

Revvy said:

No it wasn't, that's the historical innacuracy that Ogle's book disproved. If you can't find the book listen to the podcasts I linked and read what I wrote.....It was a product of the 1860's, and was created as an alternative to heavy beers which orignally provided much needed diatary calories. But as America became prosperous and meat was consumed with every meal americans desired a lighter drink, so the brewers had to some up with something or die. This was compounded by the use of american 6-row barley which made of heavier hazy beers, that warranted the more expensive use of adjucnts such as rice and corn, to make it less hazy and heavy....

Click to expand...

Interesting, makes sense. Lots of well known historical references say otherwise.

o4_srt said:

Not available for kindle download :-(

Side note: no arguments were made (by me anyway) against the product of bmc. My gripe is in their business proceedings.

I'm perfectly aware that American light lager is the result of mass marketing, the result of trying to find the beer that was the most appealing to the most people, occurring mostly after prohibition (according to the history channel).

Click to expand...

I'd send you my copy if you promised to send it back; but it would be cheaper for both of us for you to just buy it or get it at the library (if they even have those anymore? )

joetothemo said:

Library "hold request" submitted. Thanks for the rec.

Click to expand...

Thank Revvy - he's the one who recommeded it to me...

Revvy said:

No it wasn't, that's the historical innacuracy that Ogle's book disproved. If you can't find the book listen to the podcasts I linked and read what I wrote.....It was a product of the 1860's, and was created as an alternative to heavy beers which orignally provided much needed diatary calories. But as America became prosperous and meat was consumed with every meal americans desired a lighter drink, so the brewers had to come up with something or die. This was compounded by the use of american 6-row barley which made of heavier hazy beers, that warranted the more expensive use of adjucnts such as rice and corn, to make it less hazy and heavy....That style of beer was around for 60 years before prohibition even happened.

Click to expand...

Yes, you had a bunch of European immigrants used to drinking thick, dark, heavy beers for caloric intake......fast forward to prosperous America, and they didn't need beer anymore - but golly, they wanted it!!!

I also love the chapter about how using rice/corn as an adjunct actually made the beer cost back then. That's another one of those myths that the anit-BMC crowd uses - "they use rice/corn to make their product cheaper!" That ain't true...

o4_srt said:

Interesting, makes sense. Lots of well known historical references say otherwise.

Click to expand...

Yeah, they were wrong, and Maureen came along and cleared it up. She even was on one of the recent Discovery channel docs as she facebooked "rolling her eyes alot and saying they were full of crap."

She talks about those "well known historical references" or the common wisdom we all believed, in the first 30 seconds of the first interview on basic brewing.

Historical references, like any other kind of researched information, are only as accurate as the most recent research shows. Lots of medical textbooks back in the day advocated leaching....that doesn't mean that medical science today has progressed some...why wouldn't historical research be any different?

Come on now Revv, next thing you'll tell me is that Ben Franklin didn't say you know what.

AZ_IPA said:

I also love the chapter about how using rice/corn as an adjunct actually made the beer cost back then. That's another one of those myths that the anit-BMC crowd uses - "they use rice/corn to make their product cheaper!" That ain't true...

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My favorites are all the other myths she disproved as well...

In recent years, beer drinkers have worn t-shirts decorated with a quote attributed to Ben Franklin: "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." Just one problem: Franklin didn't say that. It's a mangled version of another Franklin quote about the pleasures of wine. In a 1779 letter, he wrote that the rain that fell on vineyards and transformed vines into grapes for wine provided "a constant proof that God loves us, and loves to see us happy."

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And the one about Pabst Blue Ribbon


Here's the version in the PBR marketing stuff...

The famous "Blue Ribbon" label did not get started until 1882. Prior to 1882, Phillip Best Brewing Company had received awards for their beer. In 1876, Pabst won both the highest awards for bottled beer and a gold medal. In 1878 at a Paris World’s Fair, Pabst again won more medals.

In 1882, bottling became significantly important to the brewing business. When bottles were first used, these were generally plain and were not appealing to the public. Pabst decided to add pieces of blue ribbons tied around the necks of Best "Select" beer bottles. It didn’t take long before the public continued to ask for "The beer with the blue ribbon." By 1892, this special packaging idea became so popular that the company was purchasing 300,000 yards of silk ribbons, which workers tied by hand around each bottle. In 1895, words "Blue Ribbon" were eventually added to the label of Select Beer, and in January 1898, the Blue Ribbon label was first used.

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But, To the contrary, there is evidence to suggest that no such award was given, as contemporaneous accounts indicate that many vendors were frustrated by the Paris World fair's refusal to award such prizes.

One account says that the only prizes awarded by the executive committee were bronze medals in recognition of "some independent and essential excellence in the article displayed," rather "than merely to indicate the relative merits of competing exhibits.

The whole dirty tale is in chapter 3 of Maureen Ogle's fantastic and eye openning history of American Brewing, Ambitious Brew - The Story of American Beer by Maureen Ogle

From Ambitious Brew:
Myth: Pabst Blue Ribbon beer was named “America’s Best” at the 1893 Columbian World Exposition in Chicago, a fact still commemorated on the Pabst label.

Reality: Frederick Pabst pronounced himself winner of the Exposition’s grand prize, but there was no grand prize to win. The judges of the brewing exhibits were forbidden from awarding ranked prizes for first, second, and third place. Everyone exhibitor left the Exposition with the same bronze commemorative medallion, regardless of the quality of his beer.

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Sorry to break anyone's hearts, especially about the Franklin Quote.

"beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy" o4_srt


There, now everyone can use their favorite beer quote, and cite me instead because I (unlike Franklin) actually said it.

Revvy,

A friend of mine just stopped working for a major distributor in Detroit. His experience in playing a daily operational role would contradict your theory of that BMC aren't evil. And while "evil" may truly be the wrong word (because at its heart, it really is protecting one's business interests), BMC is manipulative, controlling, and exclusionary.

The timeliness in delivery from MC and the speed with which you receive new or short-lived promotional products is directly related to how much of non-MC you handle. If, as a distributor, you start shipping too much non-MC, brewery shipments begin to become "lost" or delayed. Requirements of displays to take up "x" percentage of usable space dictate whether you have access to promotional material. BONUS payoffs for dropping other beer lines from your distributorship.

These are all designed to kill competition. And not just hold it off, but rather to put small breweries out of business. From MC, the placement of ads in the media are truly not aimed at the other big boy. They are designed to create so much noise that nobody without billion-dollar pockets can get into the market.

I'm not crying that big breweries do this. I'm not looking at this through naive eyes, either. What BMC does, borders on racketeering. They create as many barriers to entry into a market as possible and make it impossible for a distributor who has come to rely on that product to stay in business unless they play exclusively by their rules. What's worse is they donate millions to Washington to cover the clearly antitrust laws they break. Again, I don't "blame" them. In their shoes I would do no different.

But to sit back and say "they have earned the right to skirt the legal system and continue to shut down a truly competitive environment because your grandparents had crappy taste in beer" is, to me, a far more naive stance to take.

The fact that craft brew does continue to gain minuscule market share despite these monopolistic moves is a testament to how crappy the product really is and how the same type of taste revolution that clearly started BMC, looks to be brewing.

Their whole business model doesn't revolve around competition. It revolves around using size, deep pockets, and manipulation of the three tier system to make it near impossible for upstarts to get in the game. In Colorado, where the three-tier system isn't so strict, Coors (this is old and may no longer be true as it was pre-MC merger) has less of a market share than the average in the rest of the country. The difference isn't huge, but it's very present. That should illustrate that given a less manipulative distribution system, more "other brands" can get recognized, appreciated, and supported. Even when playing to a "hometown" crowd you might expect to side with the "state beer."

It's not their size or their product: it's their blatant disregard for ethical conduct and their flaunting of "friends in high places" which keeps their less-than legal practices shiny clean. OK, it's a little their product.

You made some great points, many with which I agree and many from which I have learned. I have enjoyed this thread so far and I welcome what are sure to be counter-jabs!

*****EDIT******

None of this is to say this type of behavior is unique to AHB or MC. I totally understand many large corporations play similar strategies. But nowhere is it more noticeable or more blatant than when you have government protections from true market forces (ie, the 3 tier system).

I predict that this thread is about to get much less enlightening as postings become increasingly polarized.

If a big brewery is a big brewery, more power to them. As for Bud flexing too much power through advertising, all breweries want to advertise. It all depends on the funding. Hell, the "Brew Master" show was one big commercial for Dogheadfish.

I do pride myself in drinking the smaller production craft brews, and enjoying obscure beers. However, I also have no beef with people dringing Coors, Bud, etc. as long as they like it. Just not my thing. Folks who feel the need to speak out against these beers though do tend to bug me, as it get elitist.

This is why we are home brewers; we know what we like, we appreciate beer, and we want to be able to hone it into our own tastes where perhaps big production and craft brews (which can be big production as well) don't quite make it.

Why read any books? I think I'm just going to start reading through everything Revvy's written. Although, it'd probably be less time consuming to read every book on beer every written.

Seriously, I think I've learned more in this thread about beer history than I have in most of my personal beer history. I need to get to reading!

P.S. PBR is my go-to beer for excessive consumption sessions.

Tall_Yotie said:

If a big brewery is a big brewery, more power to them. As for Bud flexing too much power through advertising, all breweries want to advertise. It all depends on the funding. Hell, the "Brew Master" show was one big commercial for Dogheadfish.

I do pride myself in drinking the smaller production craft brews, and enjoying obscure beers. However, I also have no beef with people dringing Coors, Bud, etc. as long as they like it. Just not my thing. Folks who feel the need to speak out against these beers though do tend to bug me, as it get elitist.

This is why we are home brewers; we know what we like, we appreciate beer, and we want to be able to hone it into our own tastes where perhaps big production and craft brews (which can be big production as well) don't quite make it.

Click to expand...

The problem isn't the advertising, all companies do that. It's their business practices that many have a problem with.

As stated before, this is apparent in almost every industry, but that doesn't mean it's ok. The world of business is cutthroat indeed. Only the strong survive. In some instances, it's better to fly under the radar than to make a splash.

Even their beer, while less than desirable to my palate, is at least drinkable. I'd take a bmc over a heine any day of the week.


Sorry for bugging you

I have zero problem with the fact that AB is a big company, or the fact that they advertise, or the fact that they own smaller brands and don't fess up to it on the label, or the fact that they make products that I don't like much (most of them, at least). I'm sure many people like their products, and it isn't up to me to tell them what they can and can't have. If AB spends $50 million on advertising, the "little guys" are already $50 million up on AB. And "Beer Wars" whining about this annoyed me to no end.

I was also annoyed about Beer Wars whining about that gimmicky "B^E" product which they put out to "spite" that gimmicky "Moonshot" product. I didn't really understand why someone making beer with caffeine in it precludes anyone else from making beer with caffeine in it.

My problem with AB stems from its manipulation of the wholesalers. If the government (the real villains here) make a law saying that all beer has to go through a wholesaler before it can go on product shelves, it isn't heartening to learn that said wholesaler is in the pocket of one of your competitors. Remove the regulatory-captured wholesalers from the picture and allow and suddenly there isn't a lot to hate about BMC.

One of my local breweries, Two Brothers, had to create their own distribution company so that they could get their products out there. They received way too much resistance from the BMC distributors and they had had enough.

For Revvy:

Gets the best at about 1:30

fifelee said:

For Revvy:

Gets the best at about 1:30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91DH4lNpniE

Click to expand...

That was great! I was worried he was going into cardiac arrest for a minute there...

This discussion can be said about anything and is more of a debate about capitalism.

For all those who have watched Beer Wars and posted on this thread because you seem informed (trust me that is me included) watch Food Inc. Its instant que on netflix as well, and has similar arguments but its about food.


I'm sorry if this has been mentioned already, but I feel it needs mentioning. Its not just the corporations who are trying to run microbreweries out of business by making new beers. I'm sure the Boston Brewing company or whatever its called (SA) wants to be the only craft brewed beer. Same with DFH, it would work better for them if they were the only IPA on the shelves.

Wakadaka said:

I'm sorry if this has been mentioned already, but I feel it needs mentioning. Its not just the corporations who are trying to run microbreweries out of business by making new beers. I'm sure the Boston Brewing company or whatever its called (SA) wants to be the only craft brewed beer. Same with DFH, it would work better for them if they were the only IPA on the shelves.

Click to expand...

I see the point you are trying to make here, but there are numerous collaborative efforts out there in the craft brew industry. I think there will always be some degree of this camaraderie as craft brewers, as a whole, are fighting for their chunk of the ~95% market share that currently belongs to BMC. Craft brewers probably know that the consumers they are marketing to (us) prefer variety and aren't necessarily loyal to one type, or one brand of beer.

I think the craft brewer backstabbing will begin when craft beer has a much higher portion of the market. Now we have people who are in it for the art who are trying to make a buck. When will it be much more competitive? 15%? 25%? Maybe...

fifelee said:

For Revvy:

Gets the best at about 1:30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91DH4lNpniE

Click to expand...

WOW, great speech!!!!

I choose to drink locally brewed beers, because I can, because it supports brewers in my community, because it supports the beer culture I benefit from, because it's fresh and doesn't have to be shipped, and because they make great beers. Cheers!

Revvy, all I have to say is.... your awesomeness knows no bounds. I thought you were the cool cat here before. Now, I want to buy you a beer, but what the hell do you get a homebrewer?

I'd love to hear you talk about politics, monopolies, and energy policy. You probably have you head screwed on straighter than most.

Yeah, saw another "craft" beer I didn't recognize a while ago, looked at the fine print on the six-pack, and, sure enough, said "Michelob." Like many people, I'm willing to try something new, no matter who brews it, but I've gotten tired of that, for several reasons, when it comes to the "bigs." 1) the beer is invariably drinkable, but what I would call craft beer "lite," and 2) I think the bigs are using this as a shotgun approach to try to saturate the distribution channels and counteract the inelastic demand (look it up) in the market they face. So- I won't buy that stuff any more. Too many genuine good craft beers out there.