I didn't mean ground, I meant "grounded" which IS the neutral conductor. Thanks NEC for making it all so simple:rockin:
The "grounded" conductor is what is commonly referred to usually as the neutral conductor. A "grounding" conductor is green and is run to carry a ground between metal parts of a system.
Much better. I.B.E.W. member since 1977 now retired.
They have electricity now in WI.? I thought they still ran off 32 volts of battery banks with a Chicago AeroMotor Windmill Generators for lighting. I recall some states even in the late 40's early 50's still had battery / generator lighting in the mid west. Way past the time of Hit & Miss powered generators. I had to pick on ya bro.
Though it has been touched on a few times in this thread, no one has really pointed out that if you get accost the 2 hots or the hot and a neutral in a GFCI protected system and you your self are not grounded you will still get shocked or electrocuted and they GFCI will not trip. Just some thing to keep in mind.
Across the hot and neutral on a GFCI you will be protected. Across two hots of a 2-pole GFCI (240V) and yourself ungrounded, I am not sure. Anyone know?
Just hope you're not completely insulated from ground. Stand in a puddle barefoot to be safe.... jk
Across the hot and neutral on a GFCI you will be protected. Across two hots of a 2-pole GFCI (240V) and yourself ungrounded, I am not sure. Anyone know?
nah, if you grab 110 and you get the bejebus zapped out of you yet you aren't holding the neutral or ground. Current has found an alternate path to ground some how, hence the name ground fault. In the same scenario and you are holding onto both legs, some current is still going to leak to ground because you are not perfectly insulated. That small amount of leakage is enough to trip it.
nah, if you grab 110 and you get the bejebus zapped out of you yet you aren't holding the neutral or ground. Current has found an alternate path to ground some how, hence the name ground fault. In the same scenario and you are holding onto both legs, some current is still going to leak to ground because you are not perfectly insulated. That small amount of leakage is enough to trip it.
If you are not grounded and you get between the hot and neutral or the 2 hots in a GFCI protected system you have become the load and all the GFCI device knows is that there is a load connected to it and that there is no leakage to ground there for it will not trip. It Dose not know if it is a toaster or a person on the end of those wires and will not trip until it senses leakage to ground.
Um, when are you ungrounded? Are you able to levitate yourself? You are ALWAYS grounded, with the only possible exception being if you are standing on a really good insulating mat, one so expensive that no regular Joe will have it.
OK so I see that we agree to disagree to agree..... wait a minute, Im confused
My work boots are good to 18kV when new. It's the standard to achieve the Omega rating for electrical resistance.
I think you are correct. With a 1-pole device a difference in current between hot and neutral will trip the device and I like your explanation. But, theoretically if one were completely ungrounded you would have no fear of touching one leg, and if you touched 2 legs of a gfi device you would become the circuit and there should be no way for the device to sense a fault.
And this:
If you are not grounded and you get between the hot and neutral or the 2 hots in a GFCI protected system you have become the load and all the GFCI device knows is that there is a load connected to it and that there is no leakage to ground there for it will not trip. It Dose not know if it is a toaster or a person on the end of those wires and will not trip until it senses leakage to ground.
Yeah, but is a regular Joe Homebrewer on this site going to own a pair of those? I doubt it. That was kinda my point. and even when you wear those, you need to be suited up on the rest of your body and still be sooooo careful not to touch anything with any other part of your body while you are working....
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