HawksBrewer
Well-Known Member
+1... but I hate the Flyers anyways so maybe I'm biased. Hartnell looks like a caveman and complains when his hair gets touched? What is he the next Head and Shoulders sponsor?
Equally Obnoxious Hockey Trash Talk Thread, eh?
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+1... but I hate the Flyers anyways so maybe I'm biased. Hartnell looks like a caveman and complains when his hair gets touched? What is he the next Head and Shoulders sponsor?
Northjerzyg said:
Should...odds are that the 1 seed losses the least in the first round.
Northjerzyg said:
We'll see if the Rags even make it out of the first round.
arturo7
Well-Known Member
Didn't look like a complaint to me, just an attempt to get a call. I'm certainly no Phi fan, but I like the way Hartnell plays the game. The NHL would be a better place with more Hartnells, and fewer Crosbys.
I'd prefer fewer of both
ColbyJack
Well-Known Member
Bryz and Luongo are proof positive that once NHL stars get a long term contract their play goes to the sh*tter. Philly had to solve their tender ****uation from last two seasons, but no way was Bryz worth that kind of dough.
Bryz wasn't worth anything close to that. Luongo is still a great goaltender, he just seems to be filled with holes when the games really count. There are several players with long term contracts that continue to play at a high level. Several in Detroit and one in Chicago that just got carried off on a stretcher the other night are good examples.
ColbyJack
Well-Known Member
True. IMNSHO if you don't enjoy watching Marion Hossa play the game, then I hate you. I've always enjoyed watching power forwards play the game. The ability to carry the pick wide, one handed, holding a man back without holding him, and making a pass or shot effortlessly is a thing of beauty. We saw a glimmer of that in pitt/philly game 2 with Jagr carrying Duproix on his back. Just awesome play!!! Who on Detroit are you referring to?
wildwest450
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I especially like the way he went cup chasing in Detroit and Pittsburgh to no avail, he's a cherry picking dick.
ColbyJack
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Guilty as charged, but I hate both those teams, so I was stoked he didn't win there. Better to see him be a leader in Chicago than just another foreigner in Detroit and the lone corner grinder in Pittsburgh. BTW stretching the blueline isn't cheating. If teams turned their fukn heads instead of staring at the puck it wouldn't be a problem for them.
You all must have missed the month of March when he was player of the month with something like 10 wins and 4 shutouts. He then proceeded to have a bone chip/fracture in his foot, which I think he's still dealing with. No excuse on earlier in the season, but I'm sure he's adjusting to going from two small market teams to the Flyers. Give him another year or two and see where he's at.
On top of that, Pronger, their captain, and a playoff warrior has been out since earlier in the year. Meszaros is out as well. They've had several rookies on the blue line this year. No excuses, the defense needs to play better (yes, you Matt Carle), as does Bryzgalov, but considering the merry go round of defenseman back there, new team, huge pressure place to play considering Philly's goalie history, and his own injury, he's done fairly well. I wouldn't say his numbers are up there where they need to be, but had the Flyers split with the Rangers this year rather than going 0-6, they would have won the conference.
His 33 wins was tied for 10th in the league, and he did it in fewer games than Craig Anderson. Niemi had 34 wins, but played 9 games more than Bryz.
That's classic. I remember busting on him about this during those seasons.
arturo7
Well-Known Member
Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen and Kronwall all have long term deals in place. I don't think that their level of play has fallen off at all since signing.
I agree the jury is still out but there needs to be an improvement in his production if he's going to justify that contract. You need to stand on your head consistently for that kind of money.
I don't know. He's undisciplined and ends up in the box too much because of it. Even when he isn't called he's walking a fine line. He's middle of the road production-wise (I believe this has been his best offensive season) but I will say he is a monster in the playoffs. In my mind he's an overrated player who has exceeded his talent. He's really just a grinder who plays above that level. In that sense I can agree with your comment but I still don't like him. I will admit that I would most likely have a different opinion if I was a Flyers fan.
arturo7
Well-Known Member
ColbyJack
Well-Known Member
Predictions for todays games? I say Boston by two goals. Phoenix by one goal. St. Louis by one goal. Devils in overtime.
paulster2626
Well-Known Member
Luongo has played very well this year - seems nobody really watches Canucks games.
The fact that the Canucks are down 3 games to 1 is not the fault of their goaltender.
ytsejam
Well-Known Member
Cherry picking?
I always saw that more as a specialty of Steve Sullivan.
I like Sully, BTW, here a classic video:
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ColbyJack
Well-Known Member
paulster2626 said:
Nice comeback... I watch a lot of Canucks games. They are the closest thing to a local team we have here in Alaska. Tampa and Vancouver are my next favorite teams to follow. But the regular season is over. He does not respond to the pressure thr way a starting goalie must.
Undeniable that everyone, including their coach, sees he is lacking, either in skill, confidence, preparation, or leadership.
He plays well every year until the playoffs. Specifically in 2010 he got lit up and that has damaged his reputation. Last year's finals didn't really help either. I would disagree with the fact that he played really well this year. For Luongo it was average, last year he played really well. Note that I said for Luongo, he is a great goalie.
STLExpat
Well-Known Member
ColbyJack said:
Sharks are going to be desperate tonight, Elliott better be ready to stand on his head
Just needs to win. 40-45 wins and I'm content. I don't need top 5 in stats, just need those wins.
You must not watch him play. He's a 0.65 point per game player over his career with the Flyers and has only missed 3 games since 2007-2008.
He led the ENTIRE league in PP goals this year, and yes, his 67 points is a career year, but only by 7 points.
He has taken some stupid penalties at times and gone through some funks, but he's a great heart and soul player who has the talent to piss people off and score goals. He's a hard working player and I think any fan of the game would love him if he played on their team, but would hate him otherwise...just like Simmonds.
ColbyJack said:
He got 2nd star in the first game, despite a 4-1 loss. He just had no help... Dustin Brown gets way too many breakaways, including two short-handed goals. And Quick was just not allowing his team to be outscored... kid is crazy good, his rebound control is scary.
Luongo's not going anywhere, and Schneider is going to be too damn expensive to keep. A lot of teams are looking for a star goalie this year. I'm hoping he ends up in Toronto, but I'm not holding my breath.
It seems to me that this is why Daniel Sedin was brought in despite MANY comments that he wouldn't be playing in this series. The Canucks know this is their last serious shot at the Cup.
Devils and Caps each tie their series up at 2 games each. The yotes are getting close to taking a 3-1 lead over Chicago.
Check that...Chicago ties it up with 1:26 left with an empty net behind them.
jtkratzer said:
I never saw much of Mike Smith before but I love watching him play (second to Rinne). Phoenix is definitely using him to his strengths, and the trust they have in the way he plays the puck is awesome.
I had him on my fantasy team for quite some time this year until I traded him. Fantasy hockey is a great way of seeing players/teams you don't normally pay attention to. It also makes you scream at the TV at times for games you otherwise wouldn't care about.
arturo7 said:
Couldn't agree more. I hate the flyers but love Hartnell. He's almost old school. Helluva player. Wish the blues had him.
Sharks have nothing. Down 3-1 after tonight, out in 5. Go blues!!!
He's only scored 60 points twice during the regular season, normally he's a 45 point guy, and he's a first line guy. He takes more minors than he scores points. After researching his stats I found out that he's a career -5 in the playoffs with 0 game tying or game winning goals. If he was a Wing I would defend him but otherwise... Simmonds will end up being the better player. Hartnell's a grinder and that's all, not that there's anything wrong with that.
Keeping stats on GTG and GWG is meaningless to me. If you score the first goal of a game and it's the only goal, like Boyle's, it's a game winner. It's no more important than scoring the first goal for your team in a 2-1 or any other score where you win. Every goal counts, except for the last 15 the Pens scored last night.
But in general, each and every goal is siginificant. Boyle's goal wouldn't have lost significance if the Rangers won 2-1 and the Sens had tied that game at 1 before the Rangers took the lead again. That goal was still necessary to win.
I'm just not a fan of tracking who scores GWG or GTG. Stupid state. Worse than +/- for individuals.
Maybe Simmonds will be better...but his PPG for his career and with Philly are lower than Hartnell's. Simmonds has no GWG or GTG in the playoffs and he's a minus player in the postseason as well. Where he has Hartnell beat, in the mere 16 playoff games of his career, his points per game go up in the playoffs over the regular season and Hartnell's drop. Hartnell has cracked 60 points only twice, but Simmonds has yet to even crack 50.
Hartnell provides far more than a typical grinder like Asham, Rinaldo, Adams, etc (in the Pens/Flyers series). He also is a guy that goes to the front of the net like Mike Knuble did, but he also provides the agitation and willingness to get in scrums. He's more talented offensively than most 3rd-4th line players.
OP
OP
Yeah. Their defense has been crap: giveaways, sloppy breakout attempts, Oduya and Keith making the argument that d should stick to d...
STLExpat
Well-Known Member
freshz said:
+ 1
wildwest450
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Al least you won't be the first team eliminated...
kjung
Well-Known Member
SMALL guy??? He's 6'4"!!!
He led his team in goals this season so at some point he has to get a game winner in the playoffs. I agree it's not the most useful stat but impact players need to show up when goals are needed the most.
Hartnell's only broke 50 twice. The 60 point season and this season. The reason I'll give Simmonds credit is he's young and has time to show he can be better. Will he be? Who knows, but I think he will. When Hartnell was his age his highest point total was 48, Simmonds had 49. I'd say they are very similar players at this point and it's really just splitting hairs. Honestly both players take way too many penalties for my liking. But then again I think that whole team does. To me it's just a lack of discipline.
Barnzy02
Well-Known Member
Hartnell has emerged this year back to his 30-30 point. He's a 50-60 point guy, no doubt. He was going through a difficult divorce last season, and it showed in his play.
One thing people don't realize about hartnell is he has been on the Flyers most productive lines since he's come to Philly.
Carter-Lupul-Hartnell
Briere-Carter-Hartnell
Briere-Leino-Hartnell - everyone remembers how ridiculous this line was for our run to the finals.
and now this year with Jags-G-Hartnell
You can make whatever claims you want about Scott, but the fact is, he creates space for guys, battles along the boards, and is great in front of the net. He hits, will fight if he needs to, and is a GREAT locker room guy.
Hartnell biggest problem can be his minor penalties, which were way worse in years passed. He hasn't taken many bad penalties this year and he led the league in PP goals.
Think whatever you want about him, but the Flyers are way better with him than without.
Having Simmonds is just a plus, another big, gritty, Physical winger to post up in front of the net. :rockin:
SPLASTiK
Well-Known Member
Agreed.
Lou had a good season, not as good as last year where he was top 3 goalie, but among starting goalies (which I'll define as 40+ games) he's still top 10 in SV% and 12th in GAA this year.
I think he played well in the first two playoff games. Game 1 had about 40 SOG... That says a little about the defense and he got the First Star for good reason. He was probably the only player who played well that night.
Game 2 could be semi-arguable, but if you watch the replays they're mostly all defensive failures and Lou had initially stopped all the shots except the breakaway turnover goal from Brown. Canucks just played sloppy defense, probably in frustration as they couldn't capitalize on the Kings' poor defense that night despite nearly 50 shots on Quick who has been incredible.
Even during the playoffs right now apparently' he's third in SV% (excluding Schneider) with .951 during even strength and not far behind... .004 lower than Quick and .006 lower than Schneider. Rinne has .962...
We're just playing horrible D. Game 3 we tightened up and LA was able to capitalize on a lucky rebound off Schneider. But then on Wednesday 43 shots on Schneider... though the Kings were out to seal the deal.
Lou is a great goalie and many teams would be lucky to have him. I don't know what the future holds... Maybe we'll try dump him somewhere though his contract would need him to agree, and try to sign Schneider before his contract expires in July. Everyone is speculating a Luongo trade with Tampa Bay since they need a goalie and his family are apparently there. Last year after the Cup everyone thought that was going to happen as well though, even calling for a straight trade for Vincent Lecavalier...
Hartnell is a monster player that definitely opens things up for other guys, different than how Giroux opens space for the other two. Scottie works the boards and usually draws guys in there. He works in front of the net, drawing and creating traffic that allows Jagr and Giroux to take those shots.
Most teams would love to have a guy like Hartnell. They Flyers have Simmonds, too. Two guys that will fight, score goals, work the front of the net, have moves to score breakaway goals, and can hold their on along the boards. Both guys are solid "team" guys who aren't about the individual recognition. Most teams would kill to have these two...I think Eric Wellwood is another guy like them. Much faster, and more skilled, but he's another guy that will work any area of the ice and is a heart and soul guy.
Again, the concept that goal scored anywhere in the list on the score sheet being less important than the last goal is just silly. If the final score is 4-3, the forth goal for the win is just as important as the other three as they're all part of the sum that creates a total greater than the opponent's total.
Danny Briere's goal in Game 1 was a huge goal. It wasn't Voracek's winner, but it was the goal that started the turnaround. Briere doesn't get a special sticker on his report card for that goal, but without it, the game would have been tied 3-3 if all other goals fell into place the same way. Maybe the outcome of the game would have been different.
All goals are important that add up to the opponent's total plus 1. Even after that, it certainly changes how the game is played. Goal number 5, 6, 7...10 for the Penguins took away the Flyers desire and ability to comeback. No way they were going to score 7 goals in a period to tie/win Game 4. So, every Pens goal mattered in some way, but obviously the first 4 they scored were the money makers to win the game.
The team does take a lot of penalties, but so does their opposition. The Flyers had more power plays than times short handed. They led the league in both categories. No one in the league had more power plays or more times shorthanded. So, their "lack of discipline" lends itself to drawing penalties as well, at the highest rate in the league. So, their style of play, and their players tend to cause the rest of the league to lack discipline when the play the Flyers. Take the Penguins for example.
