Heating Element Leak

I installed a 5,500 watt element in each of two keggles, to be used for HLT and BK last night. I'm using the 1" locknut and silicone washer from bargainfittings.com and I also used a 1" to 1.5" washer as Brewmoor has to ground the elements. The configuration goes like this (looking from outside of the keggle, following the power wire in): 1" to 1.5" washer up against element base, element stock rubber washer, keggle wall, silicone washer, and 1" locknut. I did a leak test last night and both keggles leak slightly. I get a drip every 5 seconds or so from the outside of the 1" to 1.5" washer.

I tightened the elements down with a wrench slightly, not completely tight as I heard you can overtighten and roll the rubber/silicone washer. Anyone have any ideas? Are you supposed to use plumbers tape on the element threads? I had intended to but hadn't seen or heard of anyone else doing it...it appears the water is coming down the threads as it doesn't appear to be leaking from around the rubber gasket.

Also, I had one hell of a time trying to thread the damn washer on one of the keggles, there ain't much room for the threads to catch with the washers/gaskets in place. Friggin thing was driving me nuts.

I have not gotten to the point of putting my element in my keggle yet, but I have read in more than one thread that you don't want to use a wrench at all on the locknut. Hand tighten only. No experience here... just restating what I read.

As for the teflon tape, I always wrap that around everything.

I know Walker, I read that several times too, but the damn thing just seemed soooo lose that I couldn't leave it 'hand tight', especially after the ***** of a time I had getting it threaded on.

I am not aware of what you are talking about when you mention Brewmoor's use of a washer for grounding, but if you had a hard time getting the threads to catch on the element because of the thickness of the o-ring + kettle wall + rubber washer + grounding washer, then you probably have very few turns of the threads interlocking and water is getting through. I'd wrap the hell out of the threads with teflon tape and put the nut back on.

Where can I see a reference to what you are talking about with the grounding washer?

I have a slightly different setup with a welded coupling, but I used LOTS of teflon tape.
Water will chase around the threads which is likely your problem.

Good luck...

Ed

Thats what I figured, made sense since it is leaking from the 'post' of the element not around the gaskets.

Walker here's Brewmoors photo of the reducing washer, I did basically the same thing.


Element Grounding Thread

I have never gotten a heating element not to leak... My solution was caking it with Aquarium Sealant, but then you can't remove it every time you brew

I think I found Brewmoor's reference (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/element-grounding-164233/#post1901573)

reading his posts in that thread, it sounds to me like he did NOT use the rubber washer that came with the element at all.

Brewmoor said:

Put the washer between the element and your kettle. This will then touch your kettle and your element effectively grounding both.

Click to expand...

No rubber washer in there on the outside of the kettle from the way I interpret that.

I would nix the rubber washer that came with the element, and use teflon. You really only need one rubber seal anyway right?

I didn't use any teflon tape on my welded 1" half coupling, just the rubber washer it came with. Didn't tighten it down too tight and it has never leaked a drop... even with 15 gallons in the keg.

Hmmm...I was thinking about not using the rubber gasket but after reading this thread (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/grounding-heating-element-166701/#post1928623) I decided to use it. Granted that was for a cooler install, but the same principle applies in trying to ground the liquid inside and the keggle holding it.

Diatonic, I so wish I had 1" couplings welded in with the others when I had them done...would've made it so much easier to deal with.

The cooler had to be grounded with a washer because it's not metal... attaching a ground to the side of the cooler wouldn't accomplish anything.

Brewmoor had to ground his with a washer because he had no place to drill in a grounding screw in without perforating the part of the kettle (a corny keg) that held the liquid.

but.... the rubber washer is a separate issue. It has nothing to do with the grounding of the thing. Sounds like the rubber washer can be eliminated.

I used the same nut & o-ring from bargainfittings, but did not use the original gasket on the outside. Teflon tape threads and tighten down nut nice and tight, no leaks.

I did the 1" coupler for my keggle and had trouble getting the element in deep enough to not leak, but after tapping the coupler I was able to get a non leaking junction in the keggle after cranking it down. The element lives on the keggle as i do not want to hassle with it now that it works.

The reducing element is needed for a cooler only. With a keggle you could just drill and tap a hole in the keg to mount a grounding screw. This will at least get one more thing out of the way when trying to get a seal.

I am currently trying to add an element into my cooler HLT, and am having leaking issues. This weekend i will try to moving my hand cut rubber gasket inside then outside and put a lot of teflon tape on the threads.

This photo attached is my element after installed and sealed. I used JB stik to mount the PVC coupler to the element then potted the connection with JB weld inside. The ground wire exited the side. This photo was during a test drive. I broke 2 bits trying to drill for a ground so I just clipped the ground to the keg and it worked. I tested the end of the power cord and the keg and the water in it and got continuity. I bought a new drill bit and made a permanent mounted screw for grounding.

It sounds to me like the problem is the grounding washer. The liquid is following the threads. The sealing washer is making a great seal between the kettle and ground washer. What's sealing between the element and the ground washer? Nothing.

Well, the 'grounding washer' is extremely thin and is maybe 1/8th (if that) the width of the factory element rubber washer so I doubt that the width of it has anything to do with it. I will agree though that without plumbers tape the water is following the threads out. The metal washer up against the metal element base must be the issue...

So do I:
1) Use plumbers tape on the threads and reinstall. Might be a challenge since getting the 1" locknuts threaded was a ***** the first time w/out tape.

or

2) Pull the grounding washer off and ground directly to the bottom skirt of the keggle, reinstall element w/ little to no tape and hope that the stock element rubber gasket seals between the keggle and the base of the element well enough to not leak.

For anyone about to have couplings welded into their keggle and is going/might be going electric in the future, have a 1" coupling welded along with your other ones. I have a feeling a welded coupling is superior, granted it doesn't have to be (as many others have succeeded) but it should certainly make things a lot easier.

I'd try #2 first.

The only reason the gasket wouldn't seat well is due to the curve of the keg right? If you install without the gasket first and crank down on the nut nice and tight, you should be able to flatten it just a bit. Take it back out and put the seal on.

Bobby_M said:

The only reason the gasket wouldn't seat well is due to the curve of the keg right?

Click to expand...

Not sure, must be...by the time I put the silicone ring/washer on the thread inside of the keg there wasn't a lot for the nut to grab onto.

If I tried to flatten the curve out, when I reinstall do I tape and/or relocate the ground?

I only want to do this ONE more time...LOL

Oh, wait... skip the oring on the inside. It's not helping at all. The only way it would do anything is if the threads were completely filled with teflon.

I think grounding to the keg skirt is a great idea. If anything were bad to energize, it's the keg.

Bobby_M said:

Oh, wait... skip the oring on the inside. It's not helping at all. The only way it would do anything is if the threads were completely filled with teflon.

Click to expand...

?

The o-ring is necessary to make a seal against the wall of the kettle, isn't it?

Even if you wrap the hell out of the threads, that won't seal the part where the element passes through the kettle wall. It'll only seal the part where the nut touches the element.

edit: re-thinking.... you need a seal (o-ring on the inside or rubber washer on the outside) to seal part of it, and teflon on the threads to seal that part. I see your point.

Well the thought was that was that the first thing to short would be the element which is why I wanted to ground the element directly. I checked both keggles for ground continuity and all metal on the keg was grounded properly using the washer on the element for ground.

The more I think about it, I can't seal the leak point where the washer meets the element base, thats the contact point for ground. The only way would be to crank the sheit out of the locknut/element and get it exceptionally tight...which isn't going to happen. I think I'm gonna have to relocate the ground to the skirt...I'll tape the threads a little just for the sake of it and try to reinstall with the gaskets/o-rings in place. If it gives me sh*t, I'll remove the o-ring on the inside and just rely on the outer stock gasket (which is fine, I'm sure).

Trying to get a clean way for the heating elements to seal in a keg is something that I struggled with for a while. I can't weld, and didn't like the instability of the lock nut on the inside method. Just this week I soldered my 1" lock nuts onto the outside of the keg. I don't have much testing on it, but it seems rock solid. Much more solid that the locknut on the inside. If you are interested read the thread on soldering stainless, I don't think there is much of a downside if you are using electric elements. Dry firing with propane could cause a problem, but with electric it shouldn't matter?