God I hate that "if you got nothing to hide" line! Just because I have nothing to hide, it doesn't give some smug cop a reason to nose around my property. All the more reason to abstain from blowing.
My brother got a DUI. I need advice from those with "experience"...
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Yeah, standing up for your fourth amendment rights and then being bullied makes you the loser in that situation.I had the exact same thing happen to me, except I said exactly what you suggested, and the cops called in three squad cars and a K-9 unit because "an honest citizen would have nothing to hide." All because I was 17 and had a skateboard in my car.
Authoritarian-minded people like you scare the **** out of me. Fortunately there are good men and women out there who care about protecting our rights.
What? All I am saying is being a dick about things by being completely anti-authoritarian because it is your right is sometimes not the best way to go about your day.
If you are going to be a dick to a cop because it is your right, he is more likely to be a dick to you.
can you explain your experience more, because I am struggling to understand how politely saying "sure thing but can you please not make a mess" would result in 3 additional cars and a K-9 unit?
It wouldn't have. Wanna know why he got them?
Yeah, standing up for your fourth amendment rights and then being bullied makes you the loser in that situation.
No, it was because they suspected you had drugs. They brought in the K-9 unit, thinking it would smell drugs and point on your car, giving them probable cause for a lawful search against your will.
If you really think the cops had nothing better to do than dick around with 17 year old bacause he "had a skaebaord in [his] car", then that's very arrogant. There's countless better targets to harass if that was their intent.
Back on-topic. OP, I hope this works out for your brother well, eventually. In the meantime, hang in there and let us know if there's anything we can do to help either of you.
On that note, you could very well have something to hide. There a plenty of embarising, but legal, things that you might not like a cop to find in your car
mattd2 said:On that note, you could very well have something to hide. There a plenty of embarising, but legal, things that you might not like a cop to find in your car
Besides those things, my wife and I also stashed our 201st gallon of homebrew in the trunk.
hoppyhoppyhippo
Well-Known Member
On that note, you could very well have something to hide. There a plenty of embarising, but legal, things that you might not like a cop to find in your car
Not to mention there's no reason to give cops the right for a search and seizure. Remember that cops can take your car apart in a legal search with your permission. They can do it and they don't have to put it back together, if you don't consent and they get a warrant in a non-honest manner, then you have legal recourse.
The funniest thing about that is does the regs even state what the basis of the year is, Jan-Dec/tax/12 month rolling/etc.
Wow I'm getting way OT now
The funniest thing about that is does the regs even state what the basis of the year is, Jan-Dec/tax/12 month rolling/etc.
Wow I'm getting way OT now
The the US, the states are left to regulate alcohol to a large extent. You're in NZ, so I have no idea how or even if home brew is regulated there.
My state certainly defines the period. The OP's brother lives here too, it seems.
lowtones84
Well-Known Member
Yup, one of the reasons I refused. And to mattd2: how is saying exactly what you're supposed to say to exercise your right being a "smart guy?" The officer was trying to use casual language to get my permission to search the vehicle, I was being more official than he was. Maybe he wouldn't have given me the ticket if I would have let him search my vehicle, but I'm guessing he would have considering it was a "speed trap" intended for that purpose. I will not tolerate officers who "suspect" I'm possessing drugs because I'm not quite a clean cut businessman.
Sorry for the off-topicness, police are a bit of a sore spot with me. (Though I know they're not all bad.)
Ha, arrogant? Come to where I live, an annual contender for richest county in the U.S. There is no real crime here, at least in my town. You are right, cops did suspect I had drugs in my car, only for the reasons I listed and nothing more. That's it. I was stone sober leaving my job where I worked and paid taxes through high school and college. They pulled me over for driving 50 feet without my lights on while it was still light out. I was perfectly respectful. They brought the dogs out, found nothing, and let me go with a "warning" for driving without my lights out of a parking lot at sunset. Meanwhile everyone from work saw me sitting on the curb with three squadcars and a dog surrounding my car.
Yup, one of the reasons I refused. And to mattd2: how is saying exactly what you're supposed to say to exercise your right being a "smart guy?" The officer was trying to use casual language to get my permission to search the vehicle, I was being more official than he was. Maybe he wouldn't have given me the ticket if I would have let him search my vehicle, but I'm guessing he would have considering it was a "speed trap" intended for that purpose. I will not tolerate officers who "suspect" I'm possessing drugs because I'm not quite a clean cut businessman.
Sorry for the off-topicness, police are a bit of a sore spot with me. (Though I know they're not all bad.)
Yup, casual language. It's a sad state of affairs when the people you trust to uphold the law have to resort to trickery and lies to make an arrest. Disclaimer: most of the cops I have met are really nice guys. The problem is that some of them try to casually get you to give up your rights, and if you refuse, you look like a criminal for turning down a simple request. "Mind if I look around the car?" "Sir, I'm running late right now, do you have to?" "Whoah, why not?"
Example: my friend got pulled over. The cop made her take a field sobriety test. She passed it, and then the cop told her he wanted her to take a breathalyzer "off the record." He said it was for his own personal records, and wouldn't get her in any trouble if she failed it.
I left a party my friend had and as soon as I pulled out of the driveway, a cop was waiting outside in his car. He proceeded to follow me several miles before finally pulling me over because one of my tag lights was hanging slightly, which is apparently a problem, even though it passed inspection the week before. They told me they smelled alcohol on my breath (a lie, they knew I had just left a party they were staking out) They asked me if I had anything to drink, I answered honestly that I had had three beers over the course of two hours. They made me take the field sobriety test which I passed easily. Then they said they wanted to breathalyze me, it wouldn't matter if I failed, just to make sure I was safe to drive home. Once again, lying to try to make an arrest. I have a perfect driving record at age 25. Never been in an accident, never even had a moving violation.
Did they arrest you? If so, did you get to hold on to your skateboard?
This is the same way in Indiana, the law states that if you are driving a vehicle, you have given consent to submit to a chemical test for the purpose of determining the amount of alcohol in your blood. Refusal of the test is a 1 year driving suspension on the first offense, the 2nd time is a 2 year suspension, the 3rd time is a 3 year suspension.
They can still take your case to trial and if found guilty impose an even longer suspension.
chemman14
Well-Known Member
You can legally distill in NZ, so I would assume it's anything goes with homebrew
Yup, one of the reasons I refused. And to mattd2: how is saying exactly what you're supposed to say to exercise your right being a "smart guy?" The officer was trying to use casual language to get my permission to search the vehicle, I was being more official than he was. Maybe he wouldn't have given me the ticket if I would have let him search my vehicle, but I'm guessing he would have considering it was a "speed trap" intended for that purpose. I will not tolerate officers who "suspect" I'm possessing drugs because I'm not quite a clean cut businessman.
Sorry for the off-topicness, police are a bit of a sore spot with me. (Though I know they're not all bad.)
Sorry for continueing the off-topic, when I said smart guy I did actually me "smart guy", as in that's what the cop could be thinking if you bruised his ego by seeing through his casual "hey I'm your freind" approach to asking for consent.
I guess what I was meaning is if a cop is trying to trick you into giving consent, then you have to weigh up the real possibility that he is not a nice cop, and will try and nail you with anything he can, i.e. if you don't consent he is likely to then call in the dogs, etc. and waste your time.
Of corse consenting could go the wrong way with a cop trying to prove his authority becasue as you said, he could rip apart your car legally and leave you with a mess to clean up.
khugs21
Well-Known Member
Get a lawyer. I was in a similar situation last year. Blew a .19 and in NY that is considered aggravated dwi. My lawyer got all my fines drastically reduced and sentencing lowered. Be respectful, dress nice and show that your not a scumbag. I dont know about CA but here, I had someone in the court system ask questions about my life (tatoos, college, previous convictions ect) I go to college, work, no tattoos, never even had a ticket prior to this, and my lawyer said that helped a lot. Good Luck to your brother.
Lets get this straight. You know you had three beers in two hours, then drove. And you have the nerve to say that the cops were wrong for pulling you over and saying they smelled alcohol on your breath?
Lets pretend those were 12 oz beers at 5% ABV -- I seriously doubt they were.
Subtract 0.03% for it being 2 hours. Where does that put your BAC? If you weigh anything less than 180#, you were at least .08. It doesn't matter if you pass the sobriety test or not. That's a DUI in most states.
OP
OP
bigbeergeek
Well-Known Member
OP here. Please back on topic. This thread is meant to generate leads/info from persons with experience in DUI cases. Squabbles about constitutional rights, unlawful searches etc can go to the debate forum. Thanks again to everyone who has offered their experiences and advice. A public defender is in my brother's future. He'll be pleading not guilty at his arraignment.
Good to hear that you've stuck around.
Like I said, let us know if you need anything.
Like I said, let us know if you need anything.
Sorry for my part in the derailment
Sounds like your brother is on the right track with the process.
No experience here, but my little bro has received two. One the week before he turned 21 and one he had a seizure behind the wheel and the passenger managed to stop the car. All I can say is that my friends Dad is a pretty good lawyer. First one was thrown out because they only pulled him over because he "may" have been parked near a party but didn't know for certain(no speeding and no swerving), we are waiting on the 2nd because the date gets pushed back(lawyers daughter just came down with a rare cancer). But if it goes like his possession charges and small wrecks my brother will not get what he deserves. A good lawyer goes a long way.
In california, if it his first one, he is not looking at jail time. He's looking at some probation, mandatory AA classes and about 12-15 grand in fees and payments that he can stretch out for as long as he wants. In addition to hiked up insurance fees for 5-10 years depending on how old he is.
I can only speak to my court in my county and state.
In my Court, a DUI first has a mandatory two days jail or 48hrs community service, with credit for time served during the initial arrest, a fine of about $600, loss of driving privilege for 90 days, mandatory attendance in DUI / Victim Impact classes, a 30-90 day suspended jaul sentence and stay out of trouble for the pendency of the case. If you score over twice the legal limit, you also have to submit to an evaluation by an impartial third party to determine if additional treatments are required.
The fact that there's jail time involved means that if you can't afford your own attorney, you'll be assigned a Public Defender.
A good defense attorney that specializes in DUI can often get the charge reduced to reckless driving if you blow below about .10, and complete all of the mandatory minimums in a timely manner. That legal help is going to cost $1500-$5000
In my Court, a DUI first has a mandatory two days jail or 48hrs community service, with credit for time served during the initial arrest, a fine of about $600, loss of driving privilege for 90 days, mandatory attendance in DUI / Victim Impact classes, a 30-90 day suspended jaul sentence and stay out of trouble for the pendency of the case. If you score over twice the legal limit, you also have to submit to an evaluation by an impartial third party to determine if additional treatments are required.
The fact that there's jail time involved means that if you can't afford your own attorney, you'll be assigned a Public Defender.
A good defense attorney that specializes in DUI can often get the charge reduced to reckless driving if you blow below about .10, and complete all of the mandatory minimums in a timely manner. That legal help is going to cost $1500-$5000
jimmayhugh said:I can only speak to my court in my county and state.
A good defense attorney that specializes in DUI can often get the charge reduced to reckless driving if you blow below about .10, and complete all of the mandatory minimums in a timely manner. That legal help is going to cost $1500-$5000
If you're convicted of a DUI you will likely pay upwards of $3k; examples: initial fines, alcohol classes (in Ohio they're held at a hotel/conference center where you are in lockdown for the duration and have to pay for the hotel room), license reinstatement, party plates. Then there's the insurance premium hikes, if you're even insurable at all. That $5k for a good lawyer starts looking pretty reasonable in a hurry.
California (OP's home state) is more expensive than Ohio in almost all respects. From CA DMV website:
Honestly, those fee estimates are far too conservative, IMO. Insurance premiums increases will be many times that over the following five year period. This is assuming you don't create additional charges in taxi, bus or train fares while the license is suspended. And those impound costs are just he cost to pay the administrative fee to have your impound released.In most CA jurisdictions, they automatically hold your car for 30 days.
An interesting side note. Found this:
One has to weigh that rate alongside the cost of a $5000 attorney bill. If you aren't acquitted, which is likely, you'd have to pay both. Hopefully that attorney could bring the fees down somewhat to compensate.
Honestly, those fee estimates are far too conservative, IMO. Insurance premiums increases will be many times that over the following five year period. This is assuming you don't create additional charges in taxi, bus or train fares while the license is suspended. And those impound costs are just he cost to pay the administrative fee to have your impound released.In most CA jurisdictions, they automatically hold your car for 30 days.
City of San Rafael Police Department said:
City of Stockton said:
An interesting side note. Found this:
The Press Enterprise said:
One has to weigh that rate alongside the cost of a $5000 attorney bill. If you aren't acquitted, which is likely, you'd have to pay both. Hopefully that attorney could bring the fees down somewhat to compensate.
OP
OP
bigbeergeek
Well-Known Member
OP here. My brother got his paperwork in the mail today: he blew a 0.13, not a 0.2 like he originally thought. That will translate to less DUI classes etc down the road. His arraignment is March 4th.
Good to hear, OP. While still in the "definitely a DUI" (>0.08 BAC) range, at least now he's not looking at "aggravating circumstances" charges upping his penalties.
