Thin beer - yeast aftertaste - tap water issue?

After an absence of 10 years I began to brew again. I gave up last time because of the mess and bother with using quart bottles. This time, I bought a kegerator and two Pepsi soda kegs.

Anyway, my first beer from an extract kit (brown ale) turned out lousy and I suspect I know why.

After the boil, I reduced the wort temp by adding a gallon or so of ice and some tap water to fill the 5 gallon plastic fermentor. I think the ice and tap water killed off the yeast early.

The first batch sat for about 4 weeks before I put it in the keg and I provided compressed C02 for the fizz. The temps in the NE this summer have been high but my basement where the fermentors are located is relatively cool - say 75F.

Anyway, I brewed several batches of Ale in this same manner; if adding tap water is an issue, is there a way to save the brew? I suppose this would involve reboiling the batches and adding new yeast; right?

Uhg!

Did you take any gravity readings?

That's going to tell you whats going on. On your next brew let the temp adjust to where you want to pitch before pitching, pitching too hot or too cold has some effects to the fermentation that may or may not be desirable.

The tap water is only a problem if you have bacteria and wild yeast in your water. Most water is treated so this is not a big risk. Some brewers boil there top up water to make sure it's clean.

75F is way too hot for brewing ales. You will not have great beer until you can control those temps.

PS: you can't boil your fermented beers and then re-ferment them. The sugars have already been eaten by the yeast. Boiling would drive off the alcohol and leave you with an unfermentable mess.

Are you adding the yeast before the ice and tap water as Mateo interpreted?

If it has a yeast flavor you need to let the beer clear more before serving, drop the temp to help. If it is thin do as Mateo said and take some gravity readings to see your attenuation. It can also be thin tasting due to things like carbonation level. If it isn't an attenuation issue or carbonation issue then I would start looking at your water report and making some adjustments; however, that is more something to focus on with all grain.

Thanks all.

By "thin" I mean an absence of alcohal. No gravity reading - I need to buy one. The beer is fairly clear without much haze at all.

What is a good temp for brewing ale if 75F is too hot?


One other question: Will a second fermentation help avoid an after taste? I suppose I could do this in one soda keg using more suger, sealing the keg with some pressurized CO2 and leaving it for a week or two outside the frige; right?

You need to let your wort temp stabilize BEFORE you pitch your yeast. Add water to achieve five gallons, get the temp down, THEN pitch.

You must also find a way to ferment at temps below 75 degrees unless you are using some of the Belgian strains. If ambient is 75, then the temp of your fermenting beer is even higher.

A practical all-around temp suitable for many ale strains is 68 degrees. Put your fermentor in a tub of water and add a frozen water bottle to keep temps consistent. Check out the Wyeast website for more info on temp ranges for the different yeast strains.

Correct these two issues before trying anything else. Pez.

alcohol will reduce the body of a beer making it thin. Kinda the opposite of what your describing.

First when we talk about temps we are referring to the temp of the fermenting liquid. NOT the ambient air temps. These can be very different. The fermenting liquid is usually higher then the air temps. At the peak of fermentation it can be 5-10 degrees F higher.

The ideal temp depends on the yeast strain. But most all ale yeasts are best in the 60's

There's nothing wrong with topping your wort off with tap water. I been using filtered tap water for this purpose since 1994.

You already admitted that you didn't take temperature and hydrometer readings. IMO, that's your biggest problem.

If your beer tastes thin then you probably used too much water.

You can "fix" thin brew by adding malto dextrine to it prior to bottling.

Robert, from what I'm hearing it sounds like you are brewing with little knowledge of the art/science. If you haven't brewed for 10 years there is a ton of knowledge that has become available to homebrewers in that time period. I would highly recommend picking up a few books and read up. An old edition of John Palmers How to Brew is available free on line but better yet get a new edition as some of his old advice has been found to be incorrect or less than ideal and he updated that information. As well, Designing Great Beers by Ray Daniels is also a staple read.

If you do not brew with a firm grip on the basics you will have many problems and produce bad beer and go insane trying to chase answers from message forums. Please don't take that as an insult (I respect anyone willing to take on the challenge of producing their own beer) as I'm more than willing to help you as many have helped me to get where I'm at in brewing; but, please start reading up on the art and science to build your basic knowledge and good beer will follow.

No, I have a candy therm and I pitched the yeast after the boil at 80-90F. ...not sure what the word "stable" temperature means. I boiled the brew, added ice, cold tap water, and let is stand until the wort reached 80-90F as determied by the thermometer before the yeast pitch.

So, the ambient temp is lower than the wort temp during fermentation? Hmmm. Is this because the chemical fermentation action creates heat? When I put my hand on the side of the tubs, they seem equal to the amient temp - neither hotter or colder - they seem just room temp.

During most every time of the year the temps in the basement are very stable as the basement is about 7 feet under ground.

Do people avoid brewing during summer months for this reason?

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR THOUGHTS!

....I have not measured the alcohal content but I have drunk several glasses over the last few days. I'm reasonably certain the beer does not have much alcohal - so this is what I would call "thin".

Anyway, the brew has been in the keg for four days (after 4 weeks in the tub) with a Co2 pressure of 15 PSI. The yeast taste is a tad less now but still fairly strong.

Should I use a second fermentation on the other batches I have made or continue to carbonate using pressurized gas in the soda kegs?

Thx...

This is what I recommend.

Ferment in the primary and then go straight to the keg. BUT you really need to give it enough time in the primary to finish the ferment. You will know it's finished when it has reached the target finishing gravity AND the yeast has fallen to the bottom.

Be careful transferring to the keg. You don't want to suck up the yeast and trub into the keg.

Then carb and drink. The first few pours will have lots of yeast but after that it should be clear beer.

robertbartsch said:

No, I have a candy therm and I pitched the yeast after the boil at 80-90F. ...not sure what the word "stable" temperature means. I boiled the brew, added ice, cold tap water, and let is stand until the wort reached 80-90F as determied by the thermometer before the yeast pitch.

So, the ambient temp is lower than the wort temp during fermentation? Hmmm. Is this because the chemical fermentation action creates heat? When I put my hand on the side of the tubs, they seem equal to the amient temp - neither hotter or colder - they seem just room temp.

During most every time of the year the temps in the basement are very stable as the basement is about 7 feet under ground.

Do people avoid brewing during summer months for this reason?

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR THOUGHTS!

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Pitching at 80-90 is not a good start. You really need to cool it to the low to mid 60's before you pitch. Pitching warm and fermenting warm will give you some harsh solvent like alcohol flavors and out of control fruity esters like bubble gum, banana, fruit loops, etc...

I use a fridge and a temp controller to ferment in the summer heat. Some people get by with a swamp cooler. Until you control the temps you will not control the flavor of the beer.

Yeah, get those books and read up, it will really clarify things for you.

If your accuracy is 80-90 you need a thermometer that is accurate to the degree as temperature is one of the most critical elements of brewing.

Pitching yeast in that hot and then cooling your wort further will likely kill your yeast or stress them to the point that they will be useless. Pitch once you hit your desired fermentation temp (68 is a good place to start). Stable temperature means you have your wort temp cooled to where you want it for fermentation.

Fermentation is exothermic so it generates heat that will raise your fermentation temps during peak activity. You are not likely to feel the difference between those temps with your hand.

When you say thin people think watery, as poor attenuation will leave a really sweet beer which will have a thicker mouth feel.

As the beer clears the yeast is settling out and will slowly decrease in flavor.

What do yo mean by secondary fermentation?

Secondary fermentation to me means the process usually designed to create carbonation. Since I'm using soda kegs and presureized Co2, I assume I do not need to fuss with adding more sugar to the wort (beer) after a few weeks. I would do this, however, if it reduced off flavors.

I thought my kit directions told me to pitch the yeast when the wort is 80-90F but I could be wrong.

robertbartsch said:

Secondary fermentation to me means the process usually designed to create carbonation. Since I'm using soda kegs and presureized Co2, I assume I do not need to fuss with adding more sugar to the wort (beer) after a few weeks. I would do this, however, if it reduced off flavors.

I thought my kit directions told me to pitch the yeast when the wort is 80-90F but I could be wrong.

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That's called priming the kegs for carbonation. Not secondary. Secondary is moving the beer to a second fermenter so it can clear. I find the secondary an unnecessary step. I prefer using the CO2 tank to force carb as opposed to priming the kegs. I find the CO2 tank is easier to control the levels of CO2 in the finished beer.

You have bad directions. This is not unusual. I highly recommend you read "How to Brew" by John Palmer. I'd suggest reading the entire book before you do your next batch.

You are correct, no reason to try to naturally carbonate when you are artificially carbonating unless you want a bubbly mess. However, I'm suspicious that your yeast are toast and wouldn't help much for natural carbonation given the temp fluctuation they were subject to. Naturally carbing beer will not reduce off flavors, aging it might. Avoiding them with good temp control during fermentation will be your best friend though.

Kit directions are notoriously inaccurate. They give the most basic pieces of infomation so as not to be confusing. Your yeast can be shocked easily, I think as little as a rapid 5 degree temp change can doom your yeast...but, that is off the top of my head, check out Wyeast's home page they have good information about how to keep yeast happy.

maida7 said:

You have bad directions. This is not unusual. I highly recommend you read "How to Brew" by John Palmer. I'd suggest reading the entire book before you do your next batch.

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+1 on this.

I know you're excited to get started, but you need a firm grasp of the process if you're ever going to make good beer. Get a hydrometer, read "How to Brew" and then read it again. Then brew another batch and I bet it will come out 1000x better than anything you've made thus far.

Is pitching yeast at 80 SO bad? (I'm assuming he is using dry yeast and its typical to rehydrate, per the instructions, in 90F water)