Done with Electric Brewing

I have been brewing for the past year with a E-Keggle. Nothing fancy just 2 1500 watt elements running off of two separate breakers. I have officially dumped 4 batches of beer because they tasted like a big liquid ash tray. Anyways the 3 I was using HWD elements. Fine, so I switched them out to ULWD elements a few weeks ago. Brewed a basic pale ale yesterday and again a complete ashtray. I always scrubbed the elements clean after each brew... I'm at a loss. I wouldnt think 1500 watts would be enough to scorch wort especially using ULWD elements. Any advice? I already ordered a 12 gallon SS pot and turkey fryer but I can still use my ekeg for sparge and mash water.

BradleyBrew said:

I have been brewing for the past year with a E-Keggle. Nothing fancy just 2 1500 watt elements running off of two separate breakers. I have officially dumped 4 batches of beer because they tasted like a big liquid ash tray. Anyways the 3 I was using HWD elements. Fine, so I switched them out to ULWD elements a few weeks ago. Brewed a basic pale ale yesterday and again a complete ashtray. I always scrubbed the elements clean after each brew... I'm at a loss. I wouldnt think 1500 watts would be enough to scorch wort especially using ULWD elements. Any advice? I already ordered a 12 gallon SS pot and turkey fryer but I can still use my ekeg for sparge and mash water.

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Odd. I've made a lot of beer with my 5500W element (built in 2009). Never had that issue, even once. I make lots of pilsners, too, so I'm sure it would be detectable. I'd love to give you some advice here, but if you tried different elements then I've got nothing.

Yeah, I'm honestly stumped as well. These new ULWD elements had wort scorched to it so bad that I literally had to use a dremel with a wire disc brush to bust it off as soaking in the oxyclean did nothing.

BradleyBrew said:

Yeah, I'm honestly stumped as well. These new ULWD elements had wort scorched to it so bad that I literally had to use a dremel with a wire disc brush to bust it off as soaking in the oxyclean did nothing.

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After 4 years I do have a hard coating of scorched "something" on my elements. Sometimes, I can knock thick flakes off the elements, but mostly I just ignore it. After abusing these things for so long, including some dry-firing accidents, I can't believe they are still kicking.

I use a heat stick to help my stove/burner along. I had this once and either I didn't clean my element enough, or I had too much particulate in the beer from the sparge as I was having bad stuck sparge issues and didn't vorlauf to try to keep it from setting up. Is your wort nice and clear?

the wort was "ok" as far as clarity. This batch was about 30% rye which may have contributed to the scorching. If this was the 1st batch I would over look it but I've dumped over $100 in beer and 20 hours of time wasted. Not sure what i'm trying to get out of this thread just frustrating. I appreciate the feedback.

I'm building my electric brewery right now, so I don't have hands on experience with it...but, there is every indication that it works. I have helped brew on a 7BBL system that is fired with electric elements (10-11k IIRC) and those don't scorch either. I understand that it can be extremely frustrating trying to figure out what is going wrong when something should be working, I would be annoyed to. But, perhaps we can help you find the gremlin in your system.

A couple of questions, what element are you using (brand, coating type)? Have you tested your voltage and amperage that is getting to the elements? Are you doing full wort boils or highly concentrated boils? Those are the thoughts off the top of my head, but there are some folks here who really know electrical systems that will be of much greater trouble shooting help...

Is this the ULWD element that your used? If so, it's not ULWD!

Camco 02852/02853 1500W 120V Screw-In Lime Life Foldback Water Heater Element - Ultra Low Watt Density

passedpawn said:

After 4 years I do have a hard coating of scorched "something" on my elements. Sometimes, I can knock thick flakes off the elements, but mostly I just ignore it. After abusing these things for so long, including some dry-firing accidents, I can't believe they are still kicking.

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Identical experience here. No ill effects.

AnOldUR said:

Is this the ULWD element that your used? If so, it's not ULWD!

Camco 02852/02853 1500W 120V Screw-In Lime Life Foldback Water Heater Element - Ultra Low Watt Density

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Then what is it? I'm using one of those and a standard watt density one from HD in my kettle and it runs just fine. No scorched wort yet...

Indian_villager said:

Then what is it?

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It's somewhere around 125 watts/sq in which puts it close to a HWD element. After buying one I found that the engineering department at Camco decided they'd work just as well in water heaters if they made them shorter, but they didn't change the label description.

Yes, it is one of those elements and it was purchased on amazon. I do full boils but I have to occassionaly top off to 5 gallons. The elements are positioned where I couldnt do any less than 3 gallons as it would expose the elements if the wort got anymore concentrated on that.

I have very limited electrical knowledge. I can install new outlets and few other things lol so I have never tested the voltage or amperage.

Thanks, I apprecaite you feedback.

I have definitely had problems with scorching using elements with too high a power density.

Occasionally I have scorched a particularly sticky wort containing adjuncts like oats that have residual glucans.

My guess is you're getting grain/husks into the boil?? I just PBW & wipe my elements down and have no problems.

I've been boiling my batches using a 5500W element from Home Depot with no problems. It is one of the fold-back types, sold as LWD, but I would guess it's still a pretty high watt density when the heat is turned up.

One thing I can think of.. how close is the element to the side or bottom of your kettle? Mine goes straight in the side, and is 3-4 inches above the bottom. There is a really strong flow of wort in the kettle and past the element during the boil that would tend to prevent heat from building up in one spot.

I do have to clean off a thin coating of sludge from the element after a batch, but it's the same stuff that I was cleaning off the bottom of my old (propane) kettle before.

AnOldUR said:

It's somewhere around 125 watts/sq in which puts it close to a HWD element. After buying one I found that the engineering department at Camco decided they'd work just as well in water heaters if they made them shorter, but they didn't change the label description.

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Yeah, I love how they think they can change a pretty big technical attribute of the product and leave the pictures and stated length the same.

I haven't built mine yet (still paying for wedding), but all of the research I've done points to using a ripple ulwd element.




http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002YU2YS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Not sure if it will work with your setup, but here's the link on amazon. This is what they recommend in the kal clone setup.

As an aside, I've tried a few batches with my electric turkey fryer as well - never comes out quite right. The thermostat isn't great, since it's meant for deep frying, and it caramelizes the heck out of wort.

That would work if he was running 220/240v, but he is on 120v.
He has 2 x 1500w elements right now, and IIRC if you're running a 240v element on 120v you have to divide by 1/4. In which case he would need at least a 6000w element, which i'm not sure if they make.

i've been running 2 x 2000w watt elements in my keggle for months now and many batches and haven't ran into that issue.. i'm almost wondering if you're plugging into an outlet that isn't quite the right voltage or something... have you tried a different set of outlets? or even at some place else? see if your local brew shop will let you setup! mine has let me a few times for different occasions.

Rivenin said:

. . . if you're running a 240v element on 120v you have to divide by 1/4 . . .

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6000 / .25 = 24000 Watts

Do you use malt extract?

AnOldUR said:

6000 / .25 = 24000 Watts

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haha whoopsies!

I was running 2 x 2200watt 110vac heaters andstood by them as hwd didn't matter. I thought I was battling a pH issue do to full volume. I had read about ashtray batches but that is not in any way how I would describe the flavor. Changed to a 4500watt 220vac ulwd heater and it has made the last two batches great. Just wanted to point out to readers that it may not be "ashtray" but HWD heaters will eventually get you. I only have two batches on new heater so I'm not yet ready to say its fixed, we will see with time but if I get any more bad taste I am going to drop electric as well or atleast revisit my design.