English Bitter - looking for advice

I've brewed a couple batches from kits so far with OK results. My next brew will be an Ordinary British Bitter that I'd like to make w/o a kit. This was the simple recipe I was thinking about using:

3.3lbs John Bull Maris Otter LME
1.5lbs amber DME
0.5lbs crystal malt 60

1.5oz East Kent Goldings (60 min)
1oz East Kent Goldings (5 min)

Wyeast London Ale III (#1318)

From what I've gathered, the crystal malt should be steeped in the water while its heating and taken out just as the water begins to boil. Is that correct?

Suggestions/recommendations? Specifically, I was wondering about the extracts. I was thinking about using only the John Bull (5lb), but I didn't know how I would store the remaining ~1.5lbs of extract. Then again, it would be cheaper to go with the amber DME. I'd really appreciate any and all feedback on this, as it is basically my first recipe. What say ye?

Here is one from Orfy in the recipe section...linky to extract post..

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=596437&postcount=17

-JMW

HumeBrew said:

I've brewed a couple batches from kits so far with OK results. My next brew will be an Ordinary British Bitter that I'd like to make w/o a kit. This was the simple recipe I was thinking about using:

3.3lbs John Bull Maris Otter LME
1.5lbs amber DME
0.5lbs crystal malt 60

1.5oz East Kent Goldings (60 min)
1oz East Kent Goldings (5 min)

Wyeast London Ale III (#1318)

From what I've gathered, the crystal malt should be steeped in the water while its heating and taken out just as the water begins to boil. Is that correct?

Suggestions/recommendations? Specifically, I was wondering about the extracts. I was thinking about using only the John Bull (5lb), but I didn't know how I would store the remaining ~1.5lbs of extract. Then again, it would be cheaper to go with the amber DME. I'd really appreciate any and all feedback on this, as it is basically my first recipe. What say ye?

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If you're going to start doing your own recipes (without kits) I'd suggest skipping the learning curve and getting Brewing Classic Styles by JZ and JP.

In lieu of that---go with the maris otter extract, half a pound of crystal 120, and 4oz of Special Roast. Use either WLP002 or WLP005...though if you already have the WY1318, that'll work too.

For steeping grains, they obviously need to be crushed. Then you steep them for 30 minutes in 150f water (I think...it's been a long time since I did extract). Take them out, then bring to a boil as usual.

I would go with all light extract. Use your 3.3lb can of John Bull, but then forgo the amber extract and just get a pound or so of light DME. When I was doing extract, the only thing I wanted from my extract was the fermentables. I got my color and flavor from steeping grains. I would suggest the same.

HumeBrew said:

From what I've gathered, the crystal malt should be steeped in the water while its heating and taken out just as the water begins to boil. Is that correct?

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Boiling is too hot, 150-160deg for 30-45min should get you what you need.

cubbies said:

I would go with all light extract. Use your 3.3lb can of John Bull, but then forgo the amber extract and just get a pound or so of light DME. When I was doing extract, the only thing I wanted from my extract was the fermentables. I got my color and flavor from steeping grains. I would suggest the same.

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+1, you will get your color from those crystal/caramel grains. Always use light or extra light extract, unless going for something specific like Marris Otter or Munich extract.

I'd dump the amber extract and just stick with the using specialty grains for color. Crystal 60 is pretty good in English ales so maybe just up that to reach your desired color range. Half your EKG for finishing to .5 oz and see if you like the result. English bitters should have low to medium hop flavor and aroma.

Steep your grains at constant 150 degrees for about a half hour. Bringing to boil will extract tannins and give off flavors.

All very good advice.

As far as making your own recipes goes - I would second the book that Evan! recommended. It is a good resource and can help prevent the odd bad batch from a faulty recipe. But I commend your jump into recipe formulation - I did that myself and have had pretty good results with the occasional winner - although the move into AG will cause me to pretty much start over.

Good luck - Cheers.

Designing Great Beers - Ray Daniels
Another great book, and my personal favorite. Learned a lot about recipes formulation from this book.

Thanks for all the feedback. The general consensus seems to be that I should use light DME in lieu of amber DME. I'll add a little special roast to help bring up the color. Thanks also for the book recommendations. I'll definitely look into them. In the meantime, though, I think I'm just going to jump in headfirst with this recipe and see how it goes. Wish me luck!

Special roast really isn't appropriate for the style, you could try using crystal 80 instead of 60, or using slightly more.

Good Luck.

One more quick question: while I'm steeping the grains at 150, should I have the malt extract added or should I just add the steeping grains to water? Does it make a difference?

add the extract after. steeping will just be your specialty grains and a couple gallons of water.

Well, my local homebrew place doesn't have the Maris Otter LME. So it looks like my revised recipe will be:

1.5lbs Breiss Light DME
3.3lbs John Bull Light LME
0.5lbs English Crystal Malt 55
1.5oz East Kent Goldings (60 min)
0.5oz East Kent Goldings (5 min)
1 pack British Ale yeast (White Labs #WLP005)

How does that sound? I've also read that torrified wheat is sometimes used in milds and bitters. Does anyone recommend that and, if so, how much would I use?

thanks again for all the help!

I believe that John Bull is still an English Style Pale Extract, so that should be good. To use the torrified wheat, you would need to at least partial mash, so go ahead and leave it out for now. It's purpose is to add a little body, so you could probably substitute maltodextrine or carapils and get the desired effect, it would only cloud up your beer.

HumeBrew said:

Well, my local homebrew place doesn't have the Maris Otter LME. So it looks like my revised recipe will be:

1.5lbs Breiss Light DME
3.3lbs John Bull Light LME
0.5lbs English Crystal Malt 55
1.5oz East Kent Goldings (60 min)
0.5oz East Kent Goldings (5 min)
1 pack British Ale yeast (White Labs #WLP005)

How does that sound? I've also read that torrified wheat is sometimes used in milds and bitters. Does anyone recommend that and, if so, how much would I use?

thanks again for all the help!

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The recipe sounds like it'll turn out fine. I wouldn't worry about it. In the beginning, it's better to KISS. Fuller's ESB is made with two grains, and is the benchmark of the style. You make the call.

Cheers,

Bob

One last question*; should I do a single-stage fermentation or should I include a secondary step? And if I were to use a two-step fermentation, at what point would I transfer to the secondary?


*Caution: This may not actually be my last question

HumeBrew said:

One last question*; should I do a single-stage fermentation or should I include a secondary step? And if I were to use a two-step fermentation, at what point would I transfer to the secondary?

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That's two questions!

The short answer is, "Yes." Seriously. A definitive answer depends on too many factors. Is your yeast flocculent enough that the beer will clear in the primary? Do you wish to fine the beer if the yeast doesn't drop out? Do you even care about your beer's clarity? Do you think that some time in the secondary will enhance the beer's flavor?

See what I mean?

As a rule, I never rack Bitter, Mild, or any other low-gravity session ale, unless the stuff is so turbid as to look utterly yecchy. The yeast I use for session ales (Nottingham) is quite flocculent, so that rarely happens. I don't believe racking and storing in bulk adds any quality to my session ales, so I don't. YMMV.

As to when to rack, if you choose to do so, do so when the beer is completely fermented - i.e., when your hydrometer readings indicate the same reading three readings in a row. My method - and yours may very well be different - is to wait for the krauesen to fall back into the beer (or visible fermentation activity to slack). That's when I start taking daily gravity readings. When I get three days in a row, it's time to consider racking or packaging.

Some say you can package session ales right at the end of primary fermentation (me included). Some say you should rack and store it for a couple of weeks, like you would any other brew. Eventually you'll decide what works best for you.

*Caution: This may not actually be my last question

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Ask away! We'll be here.

Cheers,

Bob

You asked for it:

BobNQ3X said:

Ask away! We'll be here.

Cheers,

Bob

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I'm going to be brewing this on Saturday. I'll be visiting my parents June 5-9th. My question is; if the beer isn't done fermenting by the time I leave (~11 days) is it ok to leave the beer in the primary for the extra 5 days? Would it be better to rack it to a secondary?

HumeBrew said:

You asked for it:



I'm going to be brewing this on Saturday. I'll be visiting my parents June 5-9th. My question is; if the beer isn't done fermenting by the time I leave (~11 days) is it ok to leave the beer in the primary for the extra 5 days? Would it be better to rack it to a secondary?

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It'll be fine, the yeast will clean up.

HumeBrew said:

You asked for it:



I'm going to be brewing this on Saturday. I'll be visiting my parents June 5-9th. My question is; if the beer isn't done fermenting by the time I leave (~11 days) is it ok to leave the beer in the primary for the extra 5 days? Would it be better to rack it to a secondary?

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I'm actually in the same situation with a porter I've got going, only I'll be gone for 2 full weeks. I'm not going to worry about it, though- seems like you can go up to a month in primary with no worries.

I was in the same position as you are now not long ago - starting to formulate my own recipes after completing a few kits.

Couple of things I have learned are:

1.) I have switched 100% to DME. I can get the steel tins of John Bull LME cheaper than DME from my HBS, but they imparted a flavour I didn'tl ike in my beers, even when relatively fresh. I find DME doesn't have this affect and keeps much better.

2.) I usually steep any grains in 1.5 - 2 gallons of water at 150-160f for 30-45 mins, before adding water to reach my full boil gallon after steeping has finished. It is not recommended to steep your grains in the full boil volume - you can look up the technical blurb on this, which talks about water ph levels etc -but it's all about avoiding any unwanted flavours in your beer.

3.) I am experimenting with the 'late addition' method, which (as you might expect) involves adding most of the malt extract towards the end of the boil (last 10-15 mins is typical). This can help with the colour of the beer, if you are making a lighter beer and also aids hop utilisation, which is particularly handy at the moment with the high hop prices. This method would require less hops for the equivalent IBU, but is probably best calculated with some brewing software.

Good luck.

Thanks for all the recommendations people. They've been helpful and I'll keep them in mind for later batches. I brewed this batch yesterday morning and its chugging along nicely. I'll let you know how it turns out.