RIS feedback please

Black Tsar
Russian Imperial Stout
Type: Partial Mash
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal

Ingredients

MASH:
8.0 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM)
8.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)
8.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM)
8.0 oz Oats, Malted (1.0 SRM)
8.0 oz Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM)

EXTRACT:
10 lbs Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM)

HOPS:
2.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min 37.4 IBUs
1.00 oz Eroica [13.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min 18.7 IBUs

YEAST & ADDITIVES:
1.00 tsp Irish Moss
Belgian Abbey II (Wyeast Labs #1762)

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.098 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.023 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 10.0 %
Bitterness: 56.2 IBUs
Est Color: 39.7 SRM

Wort will be racked onto fresh yeast cake from a low hop Wit (same day as the Wit is bottled if at all possible)

Tear it to pieces.

Personally, I would go with more hops, maybe ~75 IBUs. It takes an awful lot of hops to stand out in something as big, dark, and malty as this brew. Otherwise, looks tasty.

I think I'll meet you in the middle and bring it up to mid 60's IBU by giving the hops a 90min boil and adding 1oz of Bullion for 10 min. Sounds like a really interesting hop, currant flavor/aroma, makes my mouth water.

I'm trying to keep this on the sweeter/fruitier side to make it a little more accessible to non-beer connoisseurs.

Cool recipe - not a critique, more of a question. Is Beligian yeast often used for RISs? It seems like an interesting fit. Could make for some interesting complexity.

I think you need a little more chocolate malt (I wouldn't use any more roasted barley or black patent) and you also need some crystal malt in there for some complexity and to balance out the roast. I would up the chocolate another 4-8oz and add 1# of crystal malt, preferably something 90L or higher. Might even consider backing down a little on the black patent. Between the black patent and roasted barley, you might risk it getting a touch acrid or ashy.

dirty_martini said:

I think you need a little more chocolate malt (I wouldn't use any more roasted barley or black patent) and you also need some crystal malt in there for some complexity and to balance out the roast. I would up the chocolate another 4-8oz and add 1# of crystal malt, preferably something 90L or higher. Might even consider backing down a little on the black patent. Between the black patent and roasted barley, you might risk it getting a touch acrid or ashy.

Click to expand...

I was afraid of exactly that, I feel like this thing might come out tasting like road tar. I think I'll take you advice and put in a pound of crystal.

As to the yeast, no it isn't a stout yeast. I'm aiming to put some fruity notes into this with a Belgian, as well as hit my ABV mark (provided I can put together a successful partial mash as well); I've also changed around the hops in pursuit of a fruitier beer.

The few "belgian" stouts I have had I was not really fond of. The Stone Belgo Anise thing was just plain awful. Anyhow its fun to experiment but the roasty flavors might battle with the belgian yeast flavors a bit. Just my opinion but please let us know how it turns out sounds interesting.

plumbob said:

As to the yeast, no it isn't a stout yeast. I'm aiming to put some fruity notes into this with a Belgian, as well as hit my ABV mark (provided I can put together a successful partial mash as well); I've also changed around the hops in pursuit of a fruitier beer.

Click to expand...

you may want to consider some special B for the crystal to help with those fruity notes. btw, 1762 is awesome in a RIS

+1 to reducing the BP

I'm no expert - I've brewed exactly one stout. I used 8oz of roasted barley (it was briess, so I think it was also around 300 L) and 8oz of Kiln Coffee - I thought it was too much. The charcoal taste was too strong for me - I'm cutting back next time around. I don't know much about extract, but that recipe had 10# 2-row/1.5 #Simpson's x-tra drk/1# 20L caramel and the charcoal flavor is still very prominent.

My take is double the Chocolate to 16oz, dump the black malt and carapils and add at least 16oz of Special B.
I did one RIS somewhat similar to that (16oz Choco, 8oz roasted barley, 16oz Special B, 8oz Oats) and it turned out great.
But mine had 90IBU instead of 60. No hops bitter was noticeable due to excessive roasted malts bitterness.
One advice to reduce roasted malts acrid and adstingency is to not boil them, just step them (with boiled water and at temps higher than 80oC for 15min) and add the resulting liquid to the fermenter.

Okay I've totally reworked this into AG, I'm going to brew it Saturday.

Feedback appreciated.

Black Tsar (AG) - Russian Imperial Stout
================================================================================
Batch Size: 5.000 gal
Boil Size: 5.000 gal
Boil Time: 60.000 min
Efficiency: 70%%
OG: 1.107
FG: 1.029
ABV: 10.1%%
Bitterness: 56.7 IBUs (Tinseth)
Color: 41.6 SRM (Morey)

Fermentables
================================================================================

Pale Malt (2 Row) US Grain 17.000 lb

Brown Malt (British Chocolate) Grain 16.000 oz

Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L Grain 16.000 oz

Victory Malt Grain 16.000 oz

Chocolate Malt (UK) Grain 8.000 oz

Roasted Barley Grain 8.000 oz

Special B Malt Grain 8.000 oz

Total grain: 21.500 lb

Hops
================================================================================
Name Alpha Amount Use Time Form IBU
Pacific Gem 15.0%% 1.000 oz Boil 60.000 min Pellet 16.6
Pacific Gem 15.0%% 1.000 oz Boil 5.000 min Pellet 6.6
Bullion 7.8%% 1.000 oz Boil 60.000 min Pellet 17.1
Bullion 7.8%% 1.000 oz Boil 5.000 min Pellet 3.4

Misc
================================================================================
Name Type Use Amount Time
Irish Moss Fining Boil 1.000 tsp 10.000 min
Yeast Nutrient Other Primary 1.000 tbsp 10.000 min

Yeast
================================================================================
Name Type Form Amount Stage
Wyeast - Irish Ale Cake

I'm hoping to get some woody, resinous quality from the hops along with a little berry. Also looking to get a very chocolaty, biscuit character from the malt, again with a little fruit.

My only quandary is with the Special B, not sure if it enough to do the job. I'm considering ditching the brown malt for a full pound of Special B. But, having never used brown malt or special B I'm flying a little blind.