Advice on my planned sculpture

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jonalexdeval

jonalexdeval

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I'm still learning about all-grain brewing and equipment (reading Palmer's book, and online). I've sketched out my sculpture and wanted some comments on the overall design.

I think it makes sense, but I see a lot of people doing tiered trees instead of the "stair step" design like mine. Is there a reason for this other than floor space? Height and space are not important (and my LP tanks will sit under the kegs on the stand if that seems safe), although price is fairly important and I'll be welding it myself and using 3 Sankeys. It will have locking casters on extended leg arms for extra base support that is larger than the actual stand.

Also, some people seem to set their MTs so that the bottom of the MT is slightly lower than the top of the kettle. I want to maximize gravity usage and simplicity, so I figured the base of each keg at the top of the next...

Primarily I'm concerned about safety... a wide support base and making sure nothing tips over side to side, etc. I wonder about all that weight up on the HLT on the back end. But I could put extension arms with casters out the back too. Thanks.

brewdiagram002.jpg


Oh, and the banjo will go on the HLT instead of the mash...
 
I think that your diagram looks sound.

I agree with the logic that your vessels should clear one another in order to take advantage of gravity, if that's the way that you want to do it.

The only reason that a single column, multi-tier design might be a plus is in cases of limited storage area- but if you're got the space, then a stairstep design might be less cluttered overall.

Consider this, though- I was initially taken with a gravity design.... But why does anybody do a gravity design? I mean- The top of your HLT is 90". That's about 7 and a half feet. I'm a short guy. The difference between me having to climb 1 or 2 ladder steps and lifting a gallon of water over my head to fill my HLT 5 to 10 times every time I brew, not to mention hoisting that heavy pot up and down every time I would want to clean it.... Yeah. It would have novelty the first time I did it, but I would be tired of the acrobatics after a couple batches...

All I am saying is, what I could never figure out is this:

Guys will spend sometimes thousands of dollars on a blichmann top tier... -But why? are these guys trying to make the brewing process seem more mystical to their non-brewing friends by making some sort of magic "brew tree"? Spring for a pump, man!

Right now, I mash on a stove, drain to my brew kettle on a cart on the floor, roll it out to the backyard burner through the house (wife LOVES that), and then have a buddy help hoist the cooled wort in boil kettle onto backyard table furniture to drain to fermenters... Clearly, I have not graduated to a brew rig, yet. However, when I do, part of the upgrade is definitely going to involve a pump or two. All of this gravity stuff is for amateurs, in my opinion.

I agree in all of the logic that you put into your design. I think that you will have an awesome rig, as long as the planned dimensions will fit into the space you plan on storing it in. ...But if you're going to put together a rig, don't beat yourself up with water and wort acrobatics- get a pump or two, and use your energy to hoist brews to your lips, not water to your HLT.

Blah, blah... My ranting two cents. If you like the aesthetic of a staircase design, then rock it.

(We expect photos when you're done!) :mug:
 
Ridonkulous05 said:
I think that your diagram looks sound.

I agree with the logic that your vessels should clear one another in order to take advantage of gravity, if that's the way that you want to do it.

The only reason that a single column, multi-tier design might be a plus is in cases of limited storage area- but if you're got the space, then a stairstep design might be less cluttered overall.

Consider this, though- I was initially taken with a gravity design.... But why does anybody do a gravity design? I mean- The top of your HLT is 90". That's about 7 and a half feet. I'm a short guy. The difference between me having to climb 1 or 2 ladder steps and lifting a gallon of water over my head to fill my HLT 5 to 10 times every time I brew, not to mention hoisting that heavy pot up and down every time I would want to clean it.... Yeah. It would have novelty the first time I did it, but I would be tired of the acrobatics after a couple batches...

All I am saying is, what I could never figure out is this:

Guys will spend sometimes thousands of dollars on a blichmann top tier... -But why? are these guys trying to make the brewing process seem more mystical to their non-brewing friends by making some sort of magic "brew tree"? Spring for a pump, man!

Right now, I mash on a stove, drain to my brew kettle on a cart on the floor, roll it out to the backyard burner through the house (wife LOVES that), and then have a buddy help hoist the cooled wort in boil kettle onto backyard table furniture to drain to fermenters... Clearly, I have not graduated to a brew rig, yet. However, when I do, part of the upgrade is definitely going to involve a pump or two. All of this gravity stuff is for amateurs, in my opinion.

I agree in all of the logic that you put into your design. I think that you will have an awesome rig, as long as the planned dimensions will fit into the space you plan on storing it in. ...But if you're going to put together a rig, don't beat yourself up with water and wort acrobatics- get a pump or two, and use your energy to hoist brews to your lips, not water to your HLT.

Blah, blah... My ranting two cents. If you like the aesthetic of a staircase design, then rock it.

(We expect photos when you're done!) :mug:
Click to expand...

+1 The above is all spot on IMO. The MT is too high to access easily without using a ladder of some kind. I'm not fond of brewing sculptures (I hate that term), brew rigs or brew trees. I prefer a modular configuration mostly due to space limitations and compact storage when not in use, but also for portability. A pump or two is definitely the way to go IMO. I get buy just fine with a single pump. I do have an elevated electrically heated HLT, but otherwise everything else is at ground level.

At one time, I was planning to build nearly the same basic design that you are working with. It looked good on paper and seemed to make sense initially, but once I started to realize just how far off the ground everything needed to be to make it work and how large the whole contraption would be, I abandoned the rig concept and went with stand alone modules.
 
Thanks for the replies. Yeah, I've actually changed my mind thinking along those same lines. It makes sense that if you're already going to have a recirculating mash tun (keg) then you might as well put everything on one level and just have a pump in between each keg. I thought about it and decided that I wanted to be able to look into the kegs and clean them easily. I think it will also be easier to share the experience with others, as it will seem more enjoyable like cooking and less like a hazardous chemistry lab.

So my new design is inspired by this picture I found somewhere on this site (credit to whoever built it):

brewstandmodel.jpg


It's actually really easy to make if you build it so the kegs can rest right on the lip of the angle iron. Then just weld those squares onto the rectangular frame.

The only alternative I would consider at this point would be a cooler as a mash tun for simplicity, but then it's harder to do step mashing if you need to. I don't want to have to actually DO infusion or decoction equations if I don't have to.

I also won't be hard plumbing it. I really don't see why homebrewers hard plumb gas and liquid lines. Just seems like a lot of extra work. I am going to put a 1.5 - 2 foot shelf off the back side to hold stuff like my wort chiller and propane tanks. It might be a few months before I get around to building it since I'm busy right now, but I'll come back and post pics.

At this point, I'm still a little scared of the idea of pumps... but I'm sure it'll seem like nothing after a few tries.
 
Jonalexdeval,

I think that you'll be less intimidated by the pumps when you look at a CIP (clean in place) operation. If you use all stainless keggles, MoreBeer Pots (my preference), or other stainless vessels, you'll be able to just run hot PBW, then hot water, then hot StarSan through the entire apparatus (almost like you are brewing a batch of cleaners and sanitizers) in order to clean it out (pumps included).

Many of the better features of your original plan can be used in this single tier design- the angle iron "safety lips", the casters for convenience, and the storage space for your other accessories (LPG tanks, etc.), as you mentioned.

Hard plumbing things only limits future expansion. Whether you want to install a new chiller style, bigger vessels, or any number of things, hard plumbing does not give you significantly more functionality, but it does limit your ability to modify, grow, or expand. I would save any hard plumbing for a setup that you are certain that you are not going to change anymore, and I think that you have made a wise decision in that regard.

Well, I am indeed envious of you. I need to move before I will even have the space to accommodate one of those bad boys. However, one day it WILL be mine- Oh yes, it WILL me mine....

Happy Brewing!!!
 
Ridonkulous05 said:
Guys will spend sometimes thousands of dollars on a blichmann top tier... -But why? are these guys trying to make the brewing process seem more mystical to their non-brewing friends by making some sort of magic "brew tree"? Spring for a pump, man!
Click to expand...

Why do people think the Top Tier costs "thousands of dollars"... I built mine on essentially a single level w/ burner automation and two pumps for under a grand.
 

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