Raging ***** Clone

Island.
Make sure u pitch enough healthy yeast to get that FG down and ferment a little lower temp during primary then ramp up temp after for less bubblegum. I know what you mean about the Ardennes.


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Stevo2569 said:

Island.
Make sure u pitch enough healthy yeast to get that FG down and ferment a little lower temp during primary then ramp up temp after for less bubblegum. I know what you mean about the Ardennes.


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Click to expand...

Brewed on 1/24/14, using Crisp Ale malt (not Maris Otter).
Mashed at 154° (actually 152-154) for 60'
Boiled for 90'

I had a 2-liter starter of WY3522 (B. Ardennes) but it ended up being 3 weeks old, stored at 61°F ambient.
Fermented at 61°F ambient for 6-7 days, which may have been 65°F in the fermentor early on, yet a bit too cool perhaps to finish, should have ramped up earlier. No sample, taken.

I then conditioned it out for 3 weeks in the mid 70s-low 80s. Roused the yeast daily, as it drops down into a solid rubbery cake. So after 4 weeks total the FG ended up at 1.020 (2/25/14). That sample tasted really good, alas way too sweet. Complex, Belgian-like, no obvious bubblegum.

In an effort to shave a few points off, I left it condition another month, and it did go down to 1.018. But the taste changed too, definitely more aged, with the bubblegum standing out suddenly. And it is still too sweet, although the dry hops are helping to offset that.

I think the 4 week sample was better, yet too sweet.

I'm looking into an oxygenation setup. I think that will help with the bigger ales. I don't brew much under 1.070.

IslandLizard said:

I'll be brewing this again, hopefully closer to the pin. I wonder if using Witbier yeast WY3944 would be the actual ticket. The Belgian Ardennes (WY3522) leaves quite a bit of bubblegum flavor, extra pronounced in the slightly sweet beer. Not sure if it should be there.

Click to expand...

I used 3944 for a batch last fall. I fermented in the middles 60s ambient and did not get a bubblegum flavor. Mine dropped to 1.014. The only real problem I had with it was how little it flocs. It stayed cloudy for a month or so before dropping clear. You have to be real careful pouring as well.

Its a good beer, I still have a six pack that Im holding onto for this spring.

joyceman said:

I used 3944 for a batch last fall. I fermented in the middles 60s ambient and did not get a bubblegum flavor. Mine dropped to 1.014. The only real problem I had with it was how little it flocs. It stayed cloudy for a month or so before dropping clear. You have to be real careful pouring as well.

Its a good beer, I still have a six pack that Im holding onto for this spring.

Click to expand...

3944 is Witbier yeast, and has no bubblegum, only apricots (and pineapple)
[EDIT] How does yours compare to the real one?
I really like RG from the tap. The bottles don't have that freshness. Probably age.

Strange how you had trouble clearing your beer using 3944. The 3944 starter I made was clear as a bell after 2 days in the fridge. I have it stepping up on my shaker now in anticipation of ... brewing a Witbier finally.
Yes, that 3944 yeast doesn't stick together. It's very loose and light. When I decanted mine it started to bloom too.

Still looking for a good Witbier recipe, want to brew this today or tomorrow at the latest.

Mines close, but not perfect. Think I need more columbus late or dryhopped.

Cant help if you're looking for something special, my wits pretty simple (nice pun there)...

3lbs pils
3 lbs malted wheat
2 lbs unmalted wheat
1 lb quick oats

.5 oz Nugget for 90
1 oz Hallertau for 2

3 tsp bitter orange 15
3 tsp toasted cracked coriander 15

Flying Dog uses El Diablo yeast so that's going to be tough to get. And who knows how that has evolved in their brewery. I was hoping to get the floral/estery profile from 3522 with that smack in your face punch from a generous dry hop. Together with a thick mouthfeel and nice dry bittery aftertaste, they created a real "Belgian" IPA. They sell the kits with El Diablo.

I was going to use just Amarillo for dry hopping, but with the higher leftover sweetness I opted to counterbalance by using some Columbus as well. I had a small early dry-hopped sample and it is stingy!

Thank you, your wits are spot on, and simple. I was looking in the Hoegaarden direction with coriander and orange peel, even some rye. I may try your recipe. Unmalted wheat as in wheat flakes? Got plenty of those, as well as flaked oats. Nugget sounds good there. Was thinking Saaz or Styrian Goldings for flavor/aroma. Hallertau would be different.

Ive used both wheat flakes and bulk wheat from the grocery stores for unmalted wheat. The bulk is cheaper, maybe around $1/lb. Just make sure you dont overdo the unmalted grians and have enough DP.

I like Saaz late as well. It varies based upon what I have on hand: Saaz, Liberty, Mt. Hood, Hallertau.

Try toasting the coriander before cracking. Someone clued me into that last year and I think it adds a really noticeable flavor.

I got flaked wheat in a group buy, so it was under $1 a pound.
I'll probably precook the flakes a bit anyway before the mash. And add some rice hulls.
Surely keeping DP high enough.

Is a protein rest needed?
I've read adding a spoonful of wheat flour at the end of the boil helps to keep the beer hazy forever.

So toasted coriander is better than the "green" ones? I always toast a big bunch of them for Indian cooking, then put them in the spice mill. Never thought toasting would be better that way in beer too.

IslandLizard said:

Brewed on 1/24/14, using Crisp Ale malt (not Maris Otter).
Mashed at 154° (actually 152-154) for 60'
Boiled for 90'

I had a 2-liter starter of WY3522 (B. Ardennes) but it ended up being 3 weeks old, stored at 61°F ambient.
Fermented at 61°F ambient for 6-7 days, which may have been 65°F in the fermentor early on, yet a bit too cool perhaps to finish, should have ramped up earlier. No sample, taken.

I then conditioned it out for 3 weeks in the mid 70s-low 80s. Roused the yeast daily, as it drops down into a solid rubbery cake. So after 4 weeks total the FG ended up at 1.020 (2/25/14). That sample tasted really good, alas way too sweet. Complex, Belgian-like, no obvious bubblegum.

In an effort to shave a few points off, I left it condition another month, and it did go down to 1.018. But the taste changed too, definitely more aged, with the bubblegum standing out suddenly. And it is still too sweet, although the dry hops are helping to offset that.

I think the 4 week sample was better, yet too sweet.

I'm looking into an oxygenation setup. I think that will help with the bigger ales. I don't brew much under 1.070.

Click to expand...

Sounds good maybe you accidently mashed to high. Idk. Just guessing. I don't oxy injection and never have prob with attenuation.



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IslandLizard said:

Is a protein rest needed?
I've read adding a spoonful of wheat flour at the end of the boil helps to keep the beer hazy forever.

Click to expand...

Never bother with a protien rest on a wit, its supposed to be cloudy.

Im going to try another run at Raging ***** again next weekend. Im upping the Columbus in the dryhop to a full ounce and up the late addition to 1.5. I've got a nice big jar of 3944 and a sack of Avangard Pils looking to be used.

This is the recipe form the kit Flying Dog sells. It is pretty much sopt on they even give you the yeast. But I have confirmation from someone at Flying Dog that Wyeast3944 is a good sub. they are releasing the kit next month I plan on making 10 gallons of this stuff.

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: #79 Raging ***** Clone
Brewer: Drew Morgan
Asst Brewer:
Style: Imperial IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7.10 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.24 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 6.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 6.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.081 SG
Estimated Color: 11.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 77.5 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 75 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
16 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 91.7 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 2 8.3 %
0.75 oz Warrior [20.20 %] - Boil 75.0 min Hop 3 56.9 IBUs
0.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 15. Hop 4 7.0 IBUs
0.30 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 5 -
1.20 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins) Other 6 -
0.75 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool Hop 7 5.1 IBUs
0.75 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Steep/Wh Hop 8 8.5 IBUs
1.0 pkg Belgian Witbier (Wyeast Labs #3944) [124 Yeast 9 -
2.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Day Hop 10 0.0 IBUs

brewtime said:

This is the recipe form the kit Flying Dog sells. It is pretty much sopt on they even give you the yeast. But I have confirmation from someone at Flying Dog that Wyeast3944 is a good sub. they are releasing the kit next month I plan on making 10 gallons of this stuff.

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: #79 Raging ***** Clone
Brewer: Drew Morgan
Asst Brewer:
Style: Imperial IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7.10 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.24 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 6.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 6.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.081 SG
Estimated Color: 11.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 77.5 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 75 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
16 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 91.7 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 2 8.3 %
0.75 oz Warrior [20.20 %] - Boil 75.0 min Hop 3 56.9 IBUs
0.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 15. Hop 4 7.0 IBUs
0.30 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 5 -
1.20 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins) Other 6 -
0.75 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool Hop 7 5.1 IBUs
0.75 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Steep/Wh Hop 8 8.5 IBUs
1.0 pkg Belgian Witbier (Wyeast Labs #3944) [124 Yeast 9 -
2.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Day Hop 10 0.0 IBUs

Click to expand...

Is this the recipe that's included in the FD kit or did you grab it off Beersmith? I've seen that Beersmith recipe, just don't know if it is concocted by someone, like 99.99% of all recipes floating around (BrewToad being one of the larger "offenders") or the one and only genuine version as sold by FD with their kit.

I'm about to brew the recipe again, splitting the batch to ferment one with WY3944 (B. Witbier) and the other with WY3522 (B. Ardennes). I want to try to get the ingredient list firmed up a bit. I'm still a bit puzzled with the hops yielding the correct IBU in the end. Not even sure what is correct, actually.

Included in the kit I transferred it to BS


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brewtime said:

Included in the kit I transferred it to BS

Click to expand...

Thank you! It wasn't clear before where the BS file came from. Gonna give it a double spin.

[EDIT] Do they mention a mash temp? The OP mashed at 150°F, but he's also using a different recipe with Carapils in it and using C40 not C60.

OK thanks for the pm. Mashing is at 152 then.

brewtime said:

This is the recipe form the kit Flying Dog sells.[...]

Estimated OG: 1.081 SG
Estimated IBU: 77.5 IBUs
[...]

Click to expand...

Monday 5/5/14 I brewed your recipe pretty closely. However, when I entered your recipe into BS it only calculates 48.9 IBUs for Tinseth and 61.5 for Rager, not counting the Whirlpool hops; 71.1 and 84.5 respectively when counting them as 9.5 min boil additions. I guess that's where the 77.5 IBUs the recipe is listing comes from. Not sure if that's correct though.

I had no Warrior so I substituted your 15.2 Warrior AAUs with 18.4 AAUs (+20%) of Nugget and used them as FWH.

Also added 6 grams of Calcium Sulfate to the boil kettle. I read a different recipe (Brewtoad) where 12 grams was suggested. That sounds really high. I had added 6 grams in my previous batch and I think that tasted just right.

My efficiency is a bit higher so I ended up with 1.041 in the 3rd runnings. Probably could use a little less malt.

OG came out to be 1.081 and 5.5 gallons went onto half of the previous unwashed yeast cake of WY3522 (Belgian Ardennes) and fermentation started within 24 hours @62°F.

Note: I was originally planning to ferment one gallon on the side with WY3944 (Belgian Witbier) for comparison. That didn't work out.

I just picked up two kits from Flying Dog I will scan the brew sheet that come with the kit and post it to this tread


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Firebat, I am just wondering why your second post lists the boil time as 90 minutes but in your first post the first hop addition is at 60. Did you boil for 30 minutes before adding the bittering hops? If so, why? Also, I'd like to hear how this turned out. This is an old thread, I know - not crossing my fingers.

Most 90 minute boils start the bittering edition at the traditional 60 minutes left in the boil. Typically this is because the extra boil time is to reduce DMS from a large pils base, to add caramelization, or to concentrate the wort.

Thanks for the post, Brewtime, and IslandLizard I am having the same sort of problem. I entered Brewtime's recipe into BrewToad and it is giving me 49 IBU. Pretty close to your problem. I am not sure with the whirlpool process in homebrewing, either. I entered the whirlpool hops as flameout additions. I'd really like to make this beer, but I don't want it to come out at 49 IBU's, as that would be pretty far from cloning this beer. Here is a link to my Brewtoad version of Brewtime's post from the kit : https://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/raging-*****-1 If anyone has any input or advice on what's wrong here, I'd appreciate it. Thanks!

sleepymonkey said:

Thanks for the post, Brewtime, and IslandLizard I am having the same sort of problem. I entered Brewtime's recipe into BrewToad and it is giving me 49 IBU. Pretty close to your problem. I am not sure with the whirlpool process in homebrewing, either. I entered the whirlpool hops as flameout additions. I'd really like to make this beer, but I don't want it to come out at 49 IBU's, as that would be pretty far from cloning this beer. Here is a link to my Brewtoad version of Brewtime's post from the kit : https://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/raging-*****-1 If anyone has any input or advice on what's wrong here, I'd appreciate it. Thanks!

Click to expand...

FO and whirlpool hops are not calculated as adding any bittering to the beer, since they're not being boiled, which may not be entirely correct. I'm sure there is some bittering taking place, mainly as bitter flavor extraction from the hops themselves. Ever eat a small piece of a hop pellet?

Fermentation had been going slowly for the entire 4 weeks and finally ended last week. I racked to a keg 3 days ago and started the dry hop with 2 oz Amarillo in a weighted, fine mesh hop bag. I agitated well during the first day while force carbing at the same time, since I needed some finished beer to be ready for Saturday's picnic party.

The racking sample (before dry hopping) tasted really good, quite bitter and slightly boozy. FG = 1.010! It's hard to judge the IBUs, but I'd say well in the 60s. A very assertive IPA with nice Belgian fruity ester notes.

After a day of agitated* dry hopping and force carbing (35psi) at room temps (75°F) I chilled the keg for 12 hours to 32°F to drop out all suspended hop particles that escaped through the fine mesh, as well as some of the suspended yeast. I didn't have the luxury of time to cold crash and drop the yeast before starting the dry hopping, which is undoubtedly a better technique, losing less flavor and aroma to the crashing yeast.

*Agitation by rolling the keg back and forth for a minute every hour or so while laying on its side.

Instead of tapping the keg, from the bottom, I purposely wanted to siphon from the clear top to prevent the fall out from dry hopping getting into my growlers.
So once at 32°F, I sanitized and opened the keg lid and siphoned out, from the top, ice cold, fairly clear dry hopped Raging ***** into two 64oz frozen growlers. There was very little foaming and lots of CO2 remained in solution. Bottling carbed beer at these temps is the way to go!

The growler beer still has a bit of a hop bite from the dry hopping and also could have used a longer dry hop time. In a week it will be much smoother.

The keg itself is still dry hopping for another 3-4 days. I'm sure the result will be a very good and well balanced Raging ***** "Clone."

Here is a link to the ingredients in FD KIT
http://flyingdogbrewery.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/StoveTopper_RagingBitch2.pdf



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brewtime said:

Here is a link to the ingredients in FD KIT
http://flyingdogbrewery.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/StoveTopper_RagingBitch2.pdf

Click to expand...

Thank you for the kit recipe, very appreciated!
Still wonder how they get 60 IBU from this.

I never tried the original but last month I brewed the recipe form CYBI with a wit yeast, no dry hopping and bottle conditioning.

It was my favourite beer to date, Belgian IPA is exactly to my taste. I drunk the 5 gallons in a few weeks

Anyway I want to try it again with dry hopping and reusing the yeast I saved.
This time I'm going to do 10 gallons.

I know this is a clone thread but I don't want to have 10 gallons of the exact same beer. I would like to split it in half and hop the second 5 gallons with something else.

Anyone have any suggestions which other two hops I could use for finishing and dry hopping? I'll use nugget for bittering.


I have Galaxy, Citra, Saaz, EKG, Summit, Falconer's Flight, Willamette, Chinook, Cascade, Belma, Strisselspalt, Fuggels and of course Amarillo and Columbus.

Thanks!

Based on brewtime's recipe, the kit's instructions from Flying Dog, and an email conversation with a brewer at Flying Dog, I brewed the following recipe this last weekend. I'll report back on how it turns out.

I just realized that I scaled the recipe down to 5 gallons from 5.5 gallons (to fit my fermenter) and didn't scale back the IBU's to match. Oh well, I'm still pretty excited to see how this one turns out. Raging B used to be my favorite go to 6 pack before stores started calling it seasonal and jacked the price up on it.

thekraken said:

Based on brewtime's recipe, the kit's instructions from Flying Dog, and an email conversation with a brewer at Flying Dog, I brewed the following recipe this last weekend. I'll report back on how it turns out. [...]

Click to expand...

What did the conversation with the FD brewer reveal?
I see you're clocking in at 95 IBU. Which is probably closer to the real RB than 60s.

IslandLizard said:

What did the conversation with the FD brewer reveal?

Click to expand...

C60 is somewhere between 1-6% of the grain bill, late kettle and whirlpool hop blends consist of columbus amarillo, 2-3 oz amarillo for dry hop, and use a good belgian wit strain. I just took this info, and brewtimes recipe as a guide, then used beersmith calculators to adjust gravity and srm to about what the specs call for, then adjusted everything to nice round numbers.

He didn't get real exact, for example he said "the quantity of late kettle hops depends on your collection". He's probably used to brewing this at a slightly larger scale than me... probably. Anyway, he was extremely open and helpful.

I see you're clocking in at 95 IBU. Which is probably closer to the real RB than 60s.

Click to expand...

Reading the instructions from Flying Dog, I took it as calculate 60 IBU with the 90 minute addition only, don't worry about the later additions. Conveniently enough, according to beersmith, 1oz of warrior at 90 minutes is about 60 IBU. Did I already mention that I like round numbers?

*Note that I didn't adjust the aa% to the actual hops I had from beersmith's defaults, but they are close.

Thank you for the additional "insider" info. I've been puzzled by the RB recipes posted and brewers claiming it was "spot on" while I don't think any of them are even close. Cloning Arrogant Bastard has been hard too, although if we keep trying we will get close eventually.

The biggest problems in cloning is we are not sure about their "actual" ingredients and percentages while scaling up or down at that magnitude changes things drastically. Equipment and process play a huge role. For one it takes a commercial brewery a lot longer to chill their wort than it takes us. Their wort volume/kettle surface ratio is also much larger than ours, changing kettle reactions.

IBU calculations. I don't think they work past say 60-100 IBU. I doubt the formulas Tinseth, Garetz, and Rager were developed to operate at the higher hop levels we use today.

Be sure to post back. I did a clone a couple years ago and found that the yeast was a big part of this beer. I used Belgian Ardennes wyeast 3522. Actually I used the recipe on the first page of this thread.

grathan said:

Be sure to post back. I did a clone a couple years ago and found that the yeast was a big part of this beer. I used Belgian Ardennes wyeast 3522.

Click to expand...

Yes of course, please report back.

I've been using 3522 too and really like it. But it's very possible FD uses a Witbier strain. I was going to split my last batch, but ended up using 3522 again for all of it.

I'll be brewing it again and see if I can split it between 3522 and 3944.

Those yeasts aren't similar at all to me. The one tastes exactly like raging ***** and the other taste like a wit beer. I fermented at 61-63*F.

grathan said:

Be sure to post back. I did a clone a couple years ago and found that the yeast was a big part of this beer. I used Belgian Ardennes wyeast 3522. Actually I used the recipe on the first page of this thread.

Click to expand...

Will do. I have to admit this brew was sort of an opportunistic last minute decision and could have used more preparation. Hopefully that wont reflect too poorly in the batch. I expect to brew it again. A good Raging (or belgian ipa) recipe is something I plan on making a staple around my house anyway

grathan said:

Those yeasts aren't similar at all to me. The one tastes exactly like raging ***** and the other taste like a wit beer. I fermented at 61-63*F.

Click to expand...

Sound's like a split test batch is in order. The FD brewer did specifically say use belgian wit strain, but maybe they hadn't had their morning coffee yet?

grathan said:

Those yeasts aren't similar at all to me. The one tastes exactly like raging ***** and the other taste like a wit beer. I fermented at 61-63*F.

Click to expand...

thekraken said:

Sound's like a split test batch is in order. The FD brewer did specifically say use belgian wit strain, but maybe they hadn't had their morning coffee yet?

Click to expand...

I've never tasted the Witbier yeast version (WY3944/WLP400), but I too expect it to be quite different from one fermented with 3522. Most recipes I've found use Witbier yeast, but you know how things get duplicated or taken for truth without much thought or taste.

FD uses El Diablo, and from what I heard supplies that with their (seasonal) kit. There are some notes in this thread about that kit and yeast.

I really like the esters from 3522. The last time (5/5/14) it looks like I had it at 65-67°F for 2 weeks, then raised to ambient (77-79°F) to condition out for another 2 weeks. Cold crashed, kegged and dry hopped in keg with 2oz of Amarillo for a week at ambient temps. OG 1.081 (a bit high, but what the heck), FG 1.010.

IslandLizard said:

FD uses El Diablo, and from what I heard supplies that with their (seasonal) kit.

Click to expand...

It would be awesome if someone close the brewery, say like within an hours drive, could get a hold of some El Diablo and share it with the town folk! ahem

thekraken said:

It would be awesome if someone close the brewery, say like within an hours drive, could get a hold of some El Diablo and share it with the town folk! ahem

Click to expand...

Why do I feel someone is looking at me? I'm more than 1 hour away, and rarely go in that direction. Besides, I don't have that kind of connection.

If someone does, that would be great! But realize... many breweries don't share their yeast anymore. Not sure if anyone has approached FD about that though. It wasn't 100% clear to me what yeast actually comes with the kit, and how it is supplied. We know breweries don't fill WLP tubes. Maybe a Mason jar if you're lucky to know the right person.

Regarding Flying Dog's instruction sheet:

At step 15 we are to drop the temp to 50F dry hop/condition for 10 days. At this length of time would this essentially be cold crashing? Or should I go ahead and do the usual cold crash after the 10 day 50F rest? OR dry hop at 50F for 8 days and then do a usual cold crash for a couple days?

After fermentation has nearly completed, most yeasts benefit from conditioning at a few degrees higher than fermentation temps. I would not skip that. Some brewers dry hop during the extended conditioning period, but some hop aroma will drop out with the yeast, later on.

50F is not low enough for a cold crash, you'll need to take it down to 32-36F for that. Now 10 days at 50F will settle a lot of that yeast, but I doubt it will completely clear it. You're using WY3944/WLP400, right? That's a slow flocculator. Remember your starter?

Maybe those instructions are for bottlers. You can dry hop in the keg.
I usually cold crash after conditioning, rack to keg and dry hop in there (in a suspended muslin bag) at low ambient temps.

In this case, I guess you could dry hop at 50F for 10 days, perhaps a few days longer, then cold crash and keg. Doesn't sound bad, just different. Or omit the cold crash and let it drop out while it's carbonating for a week at 36F.

Yep, I used 3944. Iv been slowly ramping up to 72 to clean up and finish the fermentation. I'm deviating from FD instructions by skipping the transfer to secondary.

Iv never done a 10 day conditioning at 50 deg, or even heard of that before, so that is why I was wondering if it was supposed to achieve the same results as a cold crash. Also, the instructions don't say anything about cold crashing so I was wondering how it would be best to throw that in to the mix.

I'll cold crash after the 10 day dry hop as you suggested.

Any idea what is the 50 degree rest supposed to achieve, or why FD would recommend it?

(My first time through any kind of recipe I try not to deviate from the instructions too much so that I can establish a base line)

thekraken said:

Yep, I used 3944. Iv been slowly ramping up to 72 to clean up and finish the fermentation. I'm deviating from FD instructions by skipping the transfer to secondary.

Click to expand...

Ah, good, we're on the same page. Secondary is old hat, at least for this kind of beer, unless you want to save cleaner yeast.

thekraken said:

Iv never done a 10 day conditioning at 50 deg, or even heard of that before, so that is why I was wondering if it was supposed to achieve the same results as a cold crash. Also, the instructions don't say anything about cold crashing so I was wondering how it would be best to throw that in to the mix.

Click to expand...

Neither have I. 50F is a very curious temperature point since it's below the yeast's range of doing anything and way above cold crash temps. Now time and temp go hand in hand, so they may combine yeast settling with dry hopping.

I yet have to see kit instructions to mention cold crashing. You've got to subscribe to HBT to know that term.

Commercial brewers move their beer into Brite tanks for clearing and carbonation. They must be under 36F, probably closer to 26-30F with some pressure to speed things up.

thekraken said:

I'll cold crash after the 10 day dry hop as you suggested.

Click to expand...

The only drawback is that some hop aroma is crashing out with whatever suspended 3944 yeast is leftover after 10 days at 50F. Maybe not all that much. Remember they use a more flocculent El Diablo yeast, not 3944.

IIRC, commercial breweries dry hop in fermentation tanks, by recirculation, before entering brite tanks.

thekraken said:

Any idea what is the 50 degree rest supposed to achieve, or why FD would recommend it?

Click to expand...

Nope. It maybe something that works in their process. Curious to know what.

thekraken said:

(My first time through any kind of recipe I try not to deviate from the instructions too much so that I can establish a base line)

Click to expand...

Ha, take kit instructions with a big gulp of IPA. Or shred them. They tend to be more wrong than good. Just the mentioning of secondaries is a tip off.

Well, I went to the source, they said to take the beer to 50F to drop the yeast out of suspension to prepare for dry hopping. They didn't say but I assume you can then raise the temp back up to 70ish for better hop utilization. After you cold crash, if you raise the temp again would the yeast just kick back up again or would they stay dropped out?