Best apples for making hard cider

I have some acreage and i'm looking to plant some trees for marking hard cider. What apples are the best? Which ones should I grow on my land? Any advice? Where should i go to get the seed that i need to grow them? Thank you!!

First, where are you? Second, good cider apples aren't started from seed, usually you buy grafted trees. Apples cross pollinate with other varieties, so seedling apples are a real crap shoot. Or you can buy rootstock appropriate for your area and graft the varieties you want, also as your zone allows. The types of apples are legion!

I'm brand new at this but I can still add an answer.
A blend of different apples seem to make the best cider.
From what I have been reading, you want a mix of:
30-60% Neutral
10-20% Tart
10-20% Aromatic
5-20% Astringent

These are then blended to suit your recipe and individual taste.

Your hardiness zone will determine what varieties to plant for each category.

I've seen nothing said of what all-around individual variety would be recommended.

Do you have a orchard in your area? They would have some great info on best strain for your area and even possibly where to get trees.

Find a supplier for your area.
Check out http://www.orangepippin.com/ for a long list of apple varieties.

I live in NE Iowa and have bought apples locally and online at fedco trees and grandpa's orchard, in Maine and Michigan respectively. My public profile lists the trees I have. None are bearing apples yet because I've just started them in the last several years! So I can't tell you have good the cider is....There is also trees of antiquity, and many other sellers of cider apple varieties.

I selected my varieties by reading The New Cider Maker's Handbook: A Comprehensive Guide for Craft Producers by Claude Jolicoeur. Also for care and feeding of the apple trees, Michael Phillips has two books out, The Holistic Orchard: Tree Fruits and Berries the Biological Way and The Apple Grower: A Guide for the Organic Orchardist. I have the latter book. I also frequently reference http://www.appleman.ca/korchard/ for detailed information.

Hope this helps!

Thats a new list for me, usually you see the euro list of Sharp, Sweet, Bittersharp and Bittersweet. I wonder if the neutral is sweet but what is the aromatic, that can be any apple in the group. WVMJ

CMcPherson said:

I'm brand new at this but I can still add an answer.
A blend of different apples seem to make the best cider.
From what I have been reading, you want a mix of:
30-60% Neutral
10-20% Tart
10-20% Aromatic
5-20% Astringent

Click to expand...

Have to add Cummins Nursery and Centuryfarms for cider trees. Also join scion exchange group if you want to learn how to graft your own trees, then you can find those wild trees that are good for cider and take them home. WVMJ

Well... it's all new to me.
I got the info from Cider by Annie Proulx.

Well, there's the English designations like WVMJ mentions, French versions of the same things, that are just different terms for the same properties. Acidity, sugar content, tannin content, and secondary flavors (yumminess) that I suppose would be like floral,spice,vinuous, earthy notes. Different cider styles call for different properties in the ingredients, not unlike beer styles...

Get THIS book and order trees from Fedco in Waterville Maine

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/mobil...d=Google_&sourceId=PLGoP4732&k_clickid=3x4732

Every other cider book out there I have read ( and have them all) is at best cliff notes compared to this bible. This one reads like an AP Bio text book. Tons of info on tress, where to get them. How to plant them. Etc

bembel, I am brand new at this and looking for an all encompassing "bible" that goes in to greater detail. I've had the book that you suggest in my Amazon shopping cart along with a few others.
Since you "have them all", do you mind to look at my shopping list and letting me know what ones are worth the purchase?

Happy to, post a screen shot or PM me, here are a few musings until then

Annie Proulx's book is a good general introduction for a beginner, but is in no way a reference once you are past your first ferment, or are planning an orchard. Lots of history too, which is informattive

The Ben Watson book is very, very basic, and full of recipes

The Everything Hard Cider book is similar, and full of recipes

Claude's book is the closest thing yet to the cider equivalent of 'Mastering the Art of Homebrew', Which I consider the Bible of Homebrew books. It goes into specific detail on everything that you could want to know, from the perspective of a serious craft producer. Up until you are ready to take the 2 week long course at Cornell University for $1800, this is the next best thing. And at $25, it's a better deal ( Not dissing Cornell, If I had 2 weeks free and they let me back in despite my undergrad shenanigans I would go in a heartbeat)

I ordered Andrew Lea's Craft Cider, 3rd edition a few weeks ago but have not had a chance to read it, I hope it is as good as Claude's book!

Yeah, I thought that it was funny that people thought Claude's book was too detailed - Too Much Science or something. I reference it regularly, and took its advice as part of my tree selection, and we designed and built our press from his discussion of design principles. (We bought a scratter though - turning a perfectly cylindrical block of wood was a bit past our capabilities!)

It is not a book of recipes, nor cookie-cutter instructions, although he does give a good "brew day" overview too.

I'd love to know what you think of some of the other books, all of you! Always good to have more than one in the library.

Ha... I have the first one you list and the other two are the ones that I was looking at plus another that didn't look much better.
So I'll just skip those and get the bible.
How about a good "cookbook"?
Something full of recipes of the old traditional standards.

CMcPherson said:

Ha... I have the first one you list and the other two are the ones that I was looking at plus another that didn't look much better.
So I'll just skip those and get the bible.
How about a good "cookbook"?
Something full of recipes of the old traditional standards.

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Here's my thing ( and many will disagree )

I feel A 'recipe' for cider is like a recipe for making toast, or ice. Unless you are trying to rescue a less than desireable batch with masking flavors of some sort or another, the best 'recipe' is pretty much universal. Im not big on flavored ciders unless I need to flavor them to cover up a serious flaw


1. Start with good juice, at least 1050 SG ( this is where you can possibly add a variable or two, but if you are buying juice, you are pretty much at the mercy of the grower and presser you purchase from) You should try to have 6-8g/liter of Total Acidity and a pH between 3.2 and 3.7. ((If you can't get good juice, I have made 'passable cider' ( 2nd place in BJCP competition) using Costco Unpasteurized with tannin and malic added pre-fermentation))

2. Low and slow fermentation using a wine yeast that likes it cool ( WL775, DV10, R2) Aim for 50F, rack to a secondary when fermentation slows WAY down, 2 months minimum, and TOP OFF HEADSPACE!!!!!! ( fresh juice or clean hard cider, a good 'cheat' ive enjoyed is to top off a 5 gallon batch post ferment with 1 single bottle of Farnum Hill Extra Dry, Still , which has enough tannin to turn Motts into something special. If you bottle with an FG of 1000-1002, you can use regular corks, bottle and still get a tiny bit of bottle carbonation if left to condition another 2 months, heaven after 6-8.

3. Cleanliness. Nothing sucks more than ruining 3 months of patience with a unsanitized accident. Sulfites can help if you are sloppy like me , YMMV. Learn about them and use as you see fit. I was anti-sulfite until I lost 20 gallons and 5 months of time and effort to Acetobacter, and now after taking to every producer I could at Cider Days, I am decidedly pro-sulfite.

The only other recipe involving adjuncts that I find useful is to add Sugar in the Raw and raisins to low sugar juice to make New England Cider.

But if you still want a cookbook, there are a ton of crazy suggestions in this book

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1615190104/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

bembel said:

Here's my thing...

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Well... that looks like damn good advice.
Do you mind if I ask a few questions about Malic, tannin, nutrients et al via PM so I don't highjack this thread any more than I have already?

Ciderboy23 said:

I have some acreage and i'm looking to plant some trees for marking hard cider. What apples are the best? Which ones should I grow on my land? Any advice? Where should i go to get the seed that i need to grow them? Thank you!!

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Kingston Black & Wickson Crab both make awesome single varietal ciders and can be blended with other apples if desired.
Regards, GF.

bembel said:

I feel A 'recipe' for cider is like a recipe for making toast, or ice.

Click to expand...

Yup. Love Claud's book too, by the way.

stella_tigre said:

Yeah, I thought that it was funny that people thought Claude's book was too detailed - Too Much Science or something. I reference it regularly, and took its advice as part of my tree selection, and we designed and built our press from his discussion of design principles. (We bought a scratter though - turning a perfectly cylindrical block of wood was a bit past our capabilities!)

It is not a book of recipes, nor cookie-cutter instructions, although he does give a good "brew day" overview too.

I'd love to know what you think of some of the other books, all of you! Always good to have more than one in the library.

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Quaker said:

Yup. Love Claud's book too, by the way.

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Franklin Country Cider Days Competition 2015

Never dreamed that I would be in a position to say this, but coming in second behind Claude sure takes the sting out of being "first loser"

I emailed him offering a friendly bottle exchange, fingers crossed !!!

bembel said:

Franklin Country Cider Days Competition 2015



Never dreamed that I would be in a position to say this, but coming in second behind Claude sure takes the sting out of being "first loser"



I emailed him offering a friendly bottle exchange, fingers crossed !!!

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Congrats. I was too intimidated to enter.

You might have won if your cider had a better name! WVMJ

bembel said:

Franklin Country Cider Days Competition 2015

Never dreamed that I would be in a position to say this, but coming in second behind Claude sure takes the sting out of being "first loser"

I emailed him offering a friendly bottle exchange, fingers crossed !!!

Click to expand...

WVMJ said:

You might have won if your cider had a better name! WVMJ

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LOL! , yes, good point. I thought they hide the names until the best of show round, but I could be wrong. From now on something like "Heirloom Blend #2, cellar aged 24 months......

Naw, ill call it Bembel-juice...

MarkKF said:

Congrats. I was too intimidated to enter.

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You know, you are totally right! Had I known that all the 'panel experts' were allowed to enter the competition I would have never submitted an entry, why waste 2 bottles and the entry fees if your going up against professionals?

Claude did email me back yesterday ( sadly, no bottle exchange is possible ) but he wrote that he 'hesitated' to enter the competition but then felt it OK since he is not a commercial producer. True, but he is a professional cider expert.

Are the beer celebrities like John Palmer, Randy Mosher, Jamil, etc, allowed to enter BJCP competitions? I'm pretty sure they are not since it would discourage and intimidate many the rest of the home-brewers, when the goal of these competitions is to encourage amateurs to improve and expand their craft.

In any case, you raise a good point.

love Claude's book