Bigger All Grain Stops Before I Wished...

Double IPA Clone for Dreadnaught from 3 Floyds.

My first beer of all time and I started with all grain and didn't hit the target O.G.: (OG: 1.084) (FG: 1.021)(IBU: 100) (SRM: 11)(ABV: 8.1%)

I hit 1.070 (loose wort chiller hose popped in kettle and blew water out and I missed the target mashing temp by 5 degrees.

Long story short.... I want to make sure the final gravity drops to at least the low 20's and I checked a day ago and only got it down to 28.

The home brew shop said to set up a starter with Champange Yeast in order to finish it off and that I won't get any off flavors from doing this... Champange Yeast is bubbling away in the basement.

Any ideas, thoughts, warnings??

Personally, I wouldn't have used champaigne yeast as it probably wasn't necissary. What were your temps? How long has it sat? Even if the airlock wasn't bubbling, there's a chance that it was still working away at some of the available sugars.

My advice would have been to rock the carboy/bucket a bit in order to get that yeast back into suspension (if in fact it was done fermenting).

+1 for no champagne yeast. rouse the yeast mebbe raise the fermenter temp a little and give it some time.

what where your mash temps and grainbill? How long has it sat in the primary?

check gravity , and 3 days later check it again. if its the same the beer as finished. if it is not the same the beer has not finished.

-=Jason=-

Flomaster said:

check gravity , and 3 days later check it again. if its the same the beer as finished. if it is not the same the beer has not finished.

-=Jason=-

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This isn't always true. When a beer finishes a lot higher than it should, there's a problem. Either you have a stuck fermentation, or there was something wrong in your brewing process.

I used the Champagne yeast and got it all the way down to target after a week. I'm dry hopping now and ready to bottle soon!! I just think I pitched too little yeast and need to make sure I have 8ppm O2 when I pitch!!

Your first brew and you blame the yeast?

You said you missed the mash temp by 5°. That high, or low? Either way, that can make an appreciable difference in your expected final gravity.

Why would you add a yeast to your beer to help it finish fermentation that you would not use to start fermentation?

Why? Because, it does not make good beer.

Out of all the beers I've made, I can count the ones that hit every number perfectly on one hand. Part of the allure of brewing, for me, is experiencing the subtle differences that these little variances impart and learning how to manage and utilize them in future brews.

I think you should try to get a better handle on your overall process. When you start monkeying around with your beer to hits numbers, you may be changing more than you want. This can leave you worse off than before, with little chance of figuring out where things went wrong.

beerkrump said:

Why would you add a yeast to your beer to help it finish fermentation that you would not use to start fermentation?

Why? Because, it does not make good beer.

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I don't agree with this. Champagne yeast is a fairly neutral yeast. It does have some flavor, but not a whole lot in my opinion. Also, the majority of the flavors put out by yeast are done at the beginning of fermentation. Since he's only trying to drop another 7 or 8 points off of his gravity, he's not going to get much flavor from it.

I don't think the champagne yeast was a bad idea...just uneccessary.

Suthrncomfrt1884 said:

I don't think the champagne yeast was a bad idea...just uneccessary.

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I agree with this. I've used champagne yeast in certain circumstances with good results, but there's a good chance it wasn't needed here.

Yes, having a high mash temp by 5 deg could change the FG.

I don't agree at all with getting yelled at for repitching some dry champagne yeast. I have many family members who have brewed for years who suggested it. They said these yeast add little to no flavor and can only break down simple sugars.(won't rip through complex sugars we don't want them to). Also, the OG was 1.070 and I only pitched 1 packet of yeast. WYeast says to use 3 packets or a starter for that big of beer. So, I think it's very fair to blame the yeast(or at least my pitching rate of it).

Slipperys said:

. So, I think it's very fair to blame the yeast(or at least my pitching rate of it).

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There ya go.

Seriously though, good job on your first beer. Big challenge. Most of us dump a can of goo into a pot of water for our first brew.

It'll get easier with practice.

Slipperys said:

I don't agree at all with getting yelled at for repitching some dry champagne yeast. I have many family members who have brewed for years who suggested it. They said these yeast add little to no flavor and can only break down simple sugars.(won't rip through complex sugars we don't want them to). Also, the OG was 1.070 and I only pitched 1 packet of yeast. WYeast says to use 3 packets or a starter for that big of beer. So, I think it's very fair to blame the yeast(or at least my pitching rate of it).

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No one is yelling at you about pitching more. I was trying to point out that you didn't need to. As for a starter...yes, it's smart to use one, but I use to brew plenty of beers pushing 1.090 that I didn't made starters for. They all turned out fine.

Personally, I still think your brewing process is to blame. If the temp was 5 degrees lower than you needed, you could have had an incomplete conversion in your mash. Also...if you didn't aerate properly, you probably had overworked yeast right from the start. I wouldn't concider this a yeast problem since the yeast was healthy when you bought them...

This is the clone recipe for 3 Floyds double IPA DREADNAUGHT from Brew Your Own. The recipe calls for 159 mashing temp, I hit 154. Lower mash temps can give you greater fermentability right? As far as O2, I drained the 10 gallon pot from the spigot to a bucket and poured from one bucket to another 7 times and had a lot of foam/bubbles. Then pitched yeast to the carboy and funneled the wort on top of the yeast. It's dark and 69 in our basement(w the air on). There is no question that I could have screwed up. I am just trying to figure out why. I did get the FG down to what the recipe called for-- but dont want to add yeast in the future Brew Strong from the brewing network is pro-pump to get good levels of O2(either air for 8ppm or pure O2 for higher). I'm thinking I still need to make sure there is enough O2. But appreciate anyone's thoughts.

Slipperys said:

This is the clone recipe for 3 Floyds double IPA DREADNAUGHT from Brew Your Own. The recipe calls for 159 mashing temp, I hit 154. Lower mash temps can give you greater fermentability right? As far as O2, I drained the 10 gallon pot from the spigot to a bucket and poured from one bucket to another 7 times and had a lot of foam/bubbles. Then pitched yeast to the carboy and funneled the wort on top of the yeast. It's dark and 69 in our basement(w the air on). There is no question that I could have screwed up. I am just trying to figure out why. I did get the FG down to what the recipe called for-- but dont want to add yeast in the future Brew Strong from the brewing network is pro-pump to get good levels of O2(either air for 8ppm or pure O2 for higher). I'm thinking I still need to make sure there is enough O2. But appreciate anyone's thoughts.

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Lower temps will lead to higher fermentability, to a certain extent. You don't want to mash at much less than 148F. Your mash temp isn't a problem. How did you crush your grain? A lot of times, if you use the mill at your LHBS, you don't get a good crush because the rollers are worn out. This could be part of your efficiency issues.

I did do it at the home brew store. But the mill is adjustable. The store owner, Rob, helped me set the spacing and said to get a nice solid crack but not crush it up to fine(close to powder). Do you crush up like crazy? Any other thoughts, thanks again!

Slipperys said:

I did do it at the home brew store. But the mill is adjustable. The store owner, Rob, helped me set the spacing and said to get a nice solid crack but not crush it up to fine(close to powder). Do you crush up like crazy? Any other thoughts, thanks again!

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Well, I hope your LHBS owner is more knowledgable than mine. When I first started brewing, the owner of mine pointed me in all the wrong directions. I still shop there, but I'm constantly correcting him when he gives customers bad advice. Regardless of spacing, if the rollers are worn, you can still get a bad crush. Think of how many people probably use that mill on any given day. I could be wrong, and it could be fine...but the most common problem with new AG brewers having low efficiency is caused by their crush.

Your goal should be to crack the husk from end to end while pulverizing the "meat" of the grain. You don't want a whole lot of dust, but it's acceptable (I don't prefer it) if it's white. If you start seeing tan dust, it means you're grinding the husk, which will extract tannins.

I would say try another brew with the LHBS crush, and if you get low efficiency again, you know your problem.

I honestly don't think you had any major problems with your brewing process other than low efficiency. The yeast stalling out is a common problem and can usually be solved by rousing the yeast (rocking your fermentor) or warming the fermentor up. I shouldn't say common...it doesn't usually occur if you have a proper starter, pitch the right amount, aerate sufficiently, and maintain temps.