I'm going to skip starting with extract and start with all-grain

Williams 728
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jetmac said:
Anything I should pay particular attention to?

I think I can do it. I have a few friends who have been all-grain brewing for a while.
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Arguably, extract brewing is simple:

Start heating your water in the boil kettle. When it is warm (or hot), put in your extract, being careful to stir it in thoroughly as to avoid scorching the syrup or clumps of dry extract powder. The rest is the same as with AG.

IMHO, all grain brewing introduces new concepts that an extract brewer wont ever deal with. Even if an extract brewer uses steeping grains, they're pretty much doing what an all grain brewer is doing, just on a smaller scale.

If you've got the equipment and some friends to prod, I think it's a great idea just starting out with AG. It's some work, but super fun and rewarding in the end.
 
baystatebrew said:
i disagree. yes, you need more equipment. but that is not "all" you need. experience and understanding the basics can't be replaced just by spending more on equipment or knowing other people that brew beer. their experience isn't yours and there is no replacement for personal experience. there is a difference between following a step by step brew process and actually understanding the intricacies of certain steps that you only learn through experience. starting simple makes it a hell of a lot easier to add a few additional advanced steps into the basic process.
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Brewing an extract-only batch for the first time is exactly the same as an AG batch- except where the wort comes from prior to the boil countdown timer starting.

AG for the first time is just like steeping grains or mini-mashes for the first time. You might make mistakes and screw up. You also might make mistakes and screw up the first time you do an extract brew, when you ferment it, when you rack it to kegs/bottles...etc.

As long as you're ready to make some mistakes, which wont necessarily happen, I don't see why starting with AG is any worse than starting with extract. No offense to extract brewers, but a dog could do extract by tipping the syrup or powder into the brew pot....not very difficult stuff. AG is all about temperature control, then water proportions, a good grain crush, and a few other things...but for the most part, it is straightforward and not all that challenging.
 
snowman said:
Very interesting! Since I am primarily a hophead I would be more than happy to stick with extract. I have a 40qt pot but on other advice I've been mostly boiling up 3 gal in order to more quickly cool the wort. I'm wondering about the effects of increased cooling time for the full boil .... but no matter... with winter just around the corner I will have tons of ice and snow before long.

dummkauf, have you tried the NB 3-hearted recipe? (instructions are posted on their website) Past week bottled the first of 2 batches... won't be long now....
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No I have only brewed 2 NB kits(kolsh and a stout) as they were part of the Christmas present that got me started in brewing :D But I'm sure any of the kits from NB would be fine. Midwest is right down the street from my office, so all my stuff comes from them simply because I can pick it up on my home from work which means I haven't bought much from NB because of that. Though if you are ordering online, check out midwest, their prices seem to always be cheaper than NB(atleast when I've compared).

As far as using snow to cool your wort, that works, just don't put the pot in a snowbank. Snow acts as an insulator(reason Igloos keep you warm) and won't cool the wort. best option I used in winter before getting a CFC was to put some water in a rubbermaid bin, put the pot in, and then periodically shovel some snow into the water.

As far as the increased cooling time, you will have that doing either full boil extract or AG as you would have to boil everything to do AG. However, I started brewing in winter, and a got few good, some great, beers using the tub of water with snow cooling technique too, and that was cooling a full 5 gallons(post boil volume) of wort.

The other advantage you have with extract, is the water you use won't affect the final product quite as much(assuming it's water you would drink to start with). PH and the make up of your water can have a much larger effect on your final product with AG as opposed to extract, which is also one less thing to worry about.

Also, check out Yooper's 60min DFH clone recipe on this site if you're looking for a good IPA. Both the extract(with steeping grains) and AG recipes are available for you to try. I've brewed it both ways, and am probably going to stick with extract since they both turned out great, extract is just a much quicker brew. That recipe has a very simple grain bill too and is all about the hops.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/dogfish-head-60-minute-clone-ag-extract-25709/
 
jetmac said:
I have one of these I was going to use with my salt water fish tank. I just have to convert the scale.
Click to expand...

Refractometers read in Brix or Plato.

To convert, use the following formula:

 {Plato/(258.6-([Plato/258.2]*227.1)}+1 = Specific gravity

Below ~14°P, you can simply divide by four to arrive at specific gravity: 12°P = 1.048 SG. This is rough but fairly accurate. Above 1.060, this goes out the window.

...or you could just plug the numbers into a calculator:

http://www.collectionsoft.com/mybrewcollection/sg0.html

:D

Cheers,

Bob
 
I switched to all-grain after my third batch and love it. I mainly was looking to have better control over fermentability and malt profile. As far as the basics go, look into yeast health, sanitation, and temp control. These will, by far have the biggest impact on the quality of your brews. Also read as much as you can (and listen to certain very informational pod casts out there).
 
jetmac said:
I have RO water system I was going to use for my fish tank.
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I don't know how mashing with RO will work out without the ph buffers for the mash. I need to use 5.2 stabilizer because my water ph is high. Also you need certain levels of mineral for yeast health and taste. (Sorry can't explain it well, I'm still a water chemistry retard).
 
SwampassJ said:
I don't know how mashing with RO will work out without the ph buffers for the mash. I need to use 5.2 stabilizer because my water ph is high. Also you need certain levels of mineral for yeast health and taste. (Sorry can't explain it well, I'm still a water chemistry retard).
Click to expand...

+1 Get a report of your local water to check the levels of "stuff" in it. Generally rule of thumb is if you can drink it (with no slightly bad tastes), you can brew with it. The Campden is a good idea just as a safeguard, my water isn't to bad with chlorine taste/smell but in a bath tub full has the chlorine blue tinge to it. I had a few "maybe its from chlorophenol" tastes in a couple of brews, now a little campden give me a bit more peice of mind ;)
 
jfr1111 said:
I jumped from Festa Brew (wich is not even extract) to AG, not because of snobbery or thinking AG was better, but because AG is way, way cheaper. I was pricing extract brews and for 5 gallons, most were in the 35-40$ range. I'm brewing a wit next week wich will cost a whopping 12 $ and probably also a cream ale in november for 10$. Yes, I'll wash my yeast and yes I have invested in a turkey fryer wich i wouldn't have if I was sticking to extract partial boils, but I brew in a bag so I haven't even sprung for a MLT yet (altough I plan to in the future).

The only things I feel are the biggest hurdles are:

a) Cooling wort quickly: don't let anyone tell you an ice bath is quick or easy. I had to wash the bathtub three times to get rid of the soot produced by the burner and it took 2 hours to get to pitchable temps. I suggest planning in advance and getting a lot of ice and adding ice cubes of SANITIZED CLEAN WATER (ie. not ice cubes from the grocery store) to your wort to cool it down. you can easily do this instead of using top-off water. You just have to make sure to end up with the right amount of concentrated wort after boiling. Or buy a wort chiller. ...
Click to expand...
I got a never used wort chiller for $25

jfr1111 said:
c) Use 65% efficiency for your recipe. Efficiency is not about dick waving but about being sensible. I hit about 65% on my firt AG. Had I taken a 75% efficiency recipe and done it as is, I would've ended up with watery wort. ...
Click to expand...

I really don't understand what that means

jfr1111 said:
If you have a good thermometer, calibrate it and do some tests beforehand, like how much time it takes for you to heat your sparge water, stuff like that so you don't end up winging it on brew day. You'll still end up doing it, but not as much...
Click to expand...

I have a really good instant read thermometer I use for cooking.
 
HenryHill said:
I started out AG, and wrote my own recipe using BS.

Study the process of the mash and steps after fermentation. Get a good thermometer, a good 10G coolerMLT with a SS braid,
Click to expand...

I bought a 9 gal Coleman xtreme.

HenryHill said:
weigh out everything every time and double check your water volumes both in recipe and when you dough in and sparge. Pre-weigh and organize your hop additions, and tag them, so you don't grab the wrong one. Stay on the cool end of fermentation range and have a way to crash cool your primary for 2-3 days prior to bottling and kegging.

Being organized means the difference between not doing the stupid things and making stupid errors before you get the hang of it and get it down to habit. If that means writing a check list to go down in order as you go thru the day then don't be afraid to write a script to keep you focused on the next step required.

Make a satisfying style that isn't too complicated to make it simpler for your first brew, like an APA or similar, and use an old fashioned manual ringing dial timer for your mash hour and boil additions-they are cheap and reliable, and keep you on course if distracted by something.
Click to expand...

I've come across a couple of checklists that I'll modify and use. I agree I need to be organized and take notes, And measurements.
 
jetmac said:
I really don't understand what that means
Click to expand...

Find out about effeciency now. It is basically the percentage of sugar you got from the grain compared to how much "sugar" is in the grain. All things like grain crush, water temps, water chemstry, etc have an effect on you effeciency.
Taken 65% as your "first go" etstimated efficeincy will give you a better reult if you are a bit higher or lower that 65%. Basically you don't know what you effecency will be until a few batches.
 
TheDom said:
I'm on a mobile here, so please forgive my lack of quotes. Someone mentioned having a checklist: one of the great things about Beersmith is that it compiles a brew day checklist for you to print and follow, which makes keeping track of things stupid easy.

I've got a few questions that'll help get you more useful suggestions on what you're planning to do. Do you have outdoor space for brewing with a turkey fryer? Do you have access to a hose and somewhere for waste water to drain to? Are you willing to do basic DIY stuff? I know there are a pile more questions that'd be helpful, but I just blanked out.
Click to expand...

Yes.

All you guys have been very helpful. With everything that has been posted here I feel like I am so ready and I can really nail this. It's gonna be so much fun.
 
TheDom said:
As far as recipe suggestions go, I'd recommend you try EdWort's Haus Pale Ale. It's pretty simple, doesn't need to age much, and is really tasty.

Also, I know you'd said you were planning on doing liquid yeast with a starter, and that's great, but don't count out dry yeast. Good ol' Nottingham or US-05 are great for most recipes where you aren't going for a specific yeast-imparted flavor. heck, there're even dry yeasts for wits and others that have gotten decent reviews.
Click to expand...

2 of my "brew buddies" use dry yeast exclusively. So that is something I will consider for my first batch to at least maybe make things a little less complicated. I just want to be sure I pitch enough. (according to Jamil)
 
nebben said:
Brewing an extract-only batch for the first time is exactly the same as an AG batch- except where the wort comes from prior to the boil countdown timer starting.

AG for the first time is just like steeping grains or mini-mashes for the first time. You might make mistakes and screw up. You also might make mistakes and screw up the first time you do an extract brew, when you ferment it, when you rack it to kegs/bottles...etc.

As long as you're ready to make some mistakes, which wont necessarily happen, I don't see why starting with AG is any worse than starting with extract. No offense to extract brewers, but a dog could do extract by tipping the syrup or powder into the brew pot....not very difficult stuff. AG is all about temperature control, then water proportions, a good grain crush, and a few other things...but for the most part, it is straightforward and not all that challenging.
Click to expand...


Yes, I expect to screw up. I even want to screw up so I don't get all full of myself when I brew an award winning brew with my first batch. LOL!!
 
Bob said:


Refractometers read in Brix or Plato.

To convert, use the following formula:

 {Plato/(258.6-([Plato/258.2]*227.1)}+1 = Specific gravity

Below ~14°P, you can simply divide by four to arrive at specific gravity: 12°P = 1.048 SG. This is rough but fairly accurate. Above 1.060, this goes out the window.

...or you could just plug the numbers into a calculator:

http://www.collectionsoft.com/mybrewcollection/sg0.html

:D

Cheers,

Bob
Click to expand...

:rockin:
 
sudbuster said:
jetmac:
Here's a guy that started with AG for his first brew https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/my-rig-105047/
You can do a good AG brew with nothing more than plastic buckets and a 3 gal pot on the kitchen stove.
http://www.mainebrews.com/news/2009/04/zapap-lauter-system/
Click to expand...

I have all the stuff I need to brew tonite if I wanted to (except a grain bill)
But, I think that becomes so labor intensive it would be discouraging. I want equiptment/software that will make things easy to do. I know AG is prolly more labor intensive than extract so this seems like a contradiction but what I mean is I desire to AG brew and want to make it as automatic/simple/and least labor intensive as possibe within my budget.
 
dummkauf said:
No I have only brewed 2 NB kits(kolsh and a stout) as they were part of the Christmas present that got me started in brewing :D But I'm sure any of the kits from NB would be fine. Midwest is right down the street from my office, so all my stuff comes from them simply because I can pick it up on my home from work which means I haven't bought much from NB because of that. Though if you are ordering online, check out midwest, their prices seem to always be cheaper than NB(atleast when I've compared).

As far as using snow to cool your wort, that works, just don't put the pot in a snowbank. Snow acts as an insulator(reason Igloos keep you warm) and won't cool the wort. best option I used in winter before getting a CFC was to put some water in a rubbermaid bin, put the pot in, and then periodically shovel some snow into the water.

As far as the increased cooling time, you will have that doing either full boil extract or AG as you would have to boil everything to do AG. However, I started brewing in winter, and a got few good, some great, beers using the tub of water with snow cooling technique too, and that was cooling a full 5 gallons(post boil volume) of wort.

The other advantage you have with extract, is the water you use won't affect the final product quite as much(assuming it's water you would drink to start with). PH and the make up of your water can have a much larger effect on your final product with AG as opposed to extract, which is also one less thing to worry about.

Also, check out Yooper's 60min DFH clone recipe on this site if you're looking for a good IPA. Both the extract(with steeping grains) and AG recipes are available for you to try. I've brewed it both ways, and am probably going to stick with extract since they both turned out great, extract is just a much quicker brew. That recipe has a very simple grain bill too and is all about the hops.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/dogfish-head-60-minute-clone-ag-extract-25709/
Click to expand...

Great point about cooling w/snow. I have a cut down 55 gal drum bottom that I overflow with cold well water to cool my boil pot. My well water is delicious, I should get off my butt and do some all grain lager this winter.

I got a mini-corny setup from Midwest, they do have great prices on a lot of stuff but the NB extract is a better price. NB had a 10% discount on extracts a week or two ago so I stocked up on 18lbs ea of gold and dark, ($7.99 fedex shipping) they have a new 10% off special each week and my orders arrive by the 3rd day after I order.

I checked out the DFH clone, I may give that a try with gold extract since I have 18lbs on hand. Using that hopping method might also give a great twist to the 3-hearted recipe itself too.
 
I did a few extract batches first, it helped me get a bit more comfortable with the process, but if you want to start with grain it's not that bad. It adds probably 1-2 hours to brewday, is all.

A few things that helped me (I just converted recently):

All Grain Checklist here: http://www.brewersfriend.com/
BrewTarget - http://brewtarget.sourceforge.net/ I can't stand BeerSmith, I think it's really clunky and hard to use. This is simpler and has a mash calculator to help get my temps and volumes for my mash/sparge. Also I keep it installed on a flash drive so I can tweak my recipes at work. It also has the benefit of being free.
Turkey Fryer - If you don't have one, get one. Your brew day will be long enough without waiting an extra hour for your stove to boil the wort.
 
Resurecting an old thread I know but.....

After starting AG 19 month's ago(skipping extract and everything in between) I was able to place 2nd in category 10 in the first round of the NHC at the Atlanta judging center.

So, I just wanted to let all the naysayers and those contemplating where to start, you can start your brewing hobby with AG.

But, you must ask alot of questions and read alot and watch brewing videos.

Thanks to everyone that has answered any question I ever had(and will have in the future) HBT is a great community.
 

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