micro mash to determine beer color

Today, because I needed to do something brewing related, I decided to test the grist for my first version of a Schwarzbier, which I have been thinking about for a while. Though I want to have some roast in this beer, after all its a Schwarzbier, I'm afraid to overdo it. Because of this I only want to add as much Carafa and CaraMunich III as necessary to give it the color of a Schwarzbier.

So I decided to weigh out 50g of the grist for the recipe and mashed this in a thermos. After 1 additional sparge and 20min boil I filtered though a paper towel and found that 3% CaraMunich III and 3% Carafa II are not enough to make it as black as I want to have it. So I will be using 4% Carafa II instead.

Has anyone done this before?

Kai

Wow I must say I've never thought of making a micro mash in a thermos. It's a brilliant idea! What're you going to do with it now? If it's got fermentables in it, you could always add it to a starter for your Schwarzbier.

EvilTOJ said:

Wow I must say I've never thought of making a micro mash in a thermos. It's a brilliant idea! What're you going to do with it now? If it's got fermentables in it, you could always add it to a starter for your Schwarzbier.

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I could, but I already have the starter going and I didn't want to bother with a sanitary process after boiling.

Kai

I've done micro-mashes on the stove in a small pan for pH testing with various grains but not for color. They're great for testing.

why not just use promash....it's pretty close every time. 30 seconds vs 2 hrs

Bellybuster said:

why not just use promash....it's pretty close every time. 30 seconds vs 2 hrs

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I wasn't sure if the color rating for the grains was correct in Beersmith and I also hoped to give the wort a taste test. But that didn't tell me much since it was not boiled long enough and rather sweet.

Kai

You could always add that Sinomar stuff afterwards if it's still too light. 99% sure it's allowable as per the Reinheitsgebot (since I think it's made from Carafe).

Besides color (duh), how much of a difference is there between Carafe II and Carafe III? Why not just use all of the latter to get the color? It is discernably more roasty?

I actually just mashed in a crock pot (slow cooker) for the first time. I had it plugged in to a ranco set to "heat" with a set point of 149, dif of 1º. It worked really well for a tiny experimental batch. I lautered through a strainer and batch sparged in my bottling bucket. 89% efficiency by the way ;-)

Another one I want to do is a specialty grain tasting batch where I mash a bunch of 1/2 lb bills. I plan to use small containers all sitting in a hot water bath inside my rectangular cooler. It's a way to keep all the mash temps the same and stable while keeping the actual mashes from mixing.

Kaiser said:

I wasn't sure if the color rating for the grains was correct in Beersmith [...]

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You can edit the color ratings for grains in Beersmith (I just tested it) if the colors are known. For instance, Carafa II has a listed color of 412 SRM, but after it's added to the grainbill, you can double-click on it and change the color to whatever you like.

That said, I admire your experimental approach. While I find that the colors Beersmith calculates are pretty close, you're definitely going above and beyond to validate that information. I'm not much of a stickler for style, and I probably would have developed a preliminary recipe, brewed it, and made notes for next time: "Not schwartz enough; damn fine bier, though."

guess I just don't get the point of going thru the beer making process and not making beer

Hmm mash in a thermos. You could make beer one bottle at a time, talk about cheap experimenting.

GaryA said:

Hmm mash in a thermos. You could make beer one bottle at a time, talk about cheap experimenting.

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I had this idea for awhile- a desktop brewery. I was going to primary in a upside down bottle, with a tube to vent and a tube to rack.

Gravity readings would be problematic.

olllllo said:

Gravity readings would be problematic.

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Miniature hydrometers?

Think the readings would be tough what about the tastings we enjoy so much.

Gravity readings would be problematic.[/QUOTE]

I have had good results so far with the more beer calculator for using a refractometer to take gravity readings during fermentation, that only requires a couple of drops.

killian said:

Gravity readings would be problematic.

I have had good results so far with the more beer calculator for using a refractometer to take gravity readings during fermentation, that only requires a couple of drops.

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Yea, but it's not like there's a valve on my beer bottle conical. It's an on or off process.

have you tried the de-husked carafa? It would add the color without the bitterness.

bluelou6 said:

have you tried the de-husked carafa? It would add the color without the bitterness.

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Yes, that's what I'm using. I actually did a taste test between dehusked and normal Carafa and noticed the difference.

Though the husk removal significantly removes the bitterness it does not remove the roasty taste. I'm want some of that roast, but not to much though.

the_bird said:

Besides color (duh), how much of a difference is there between Carafe II and Carafe III? Why not just use all of the latter to get the color? It is discernably more roasty?

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b/c I didn't have the Carafa III at hand. I have it now since my HBS doesn't carry Carafa II special. I also don't have Sinamar. If it is still to light after brewing and forced ferment test I may soak some Carafa in water, boil the extract and add it to the beer.

bellybuster said:

guess I just don't get the point of going thru the beer making process and not making beer

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B/c it's much easier and I felt like doing something breweing related while I was cleaning the kitchen. It only took me an hour since I only mashed for 30min and boiled for another 20min.

This is a new beer for me and though I'm going to refine the recipe over time, I wanted to make sure that I start off close enough.

Kai

try powdering the carafa II or III special, grinding it down to powder you'll have the same amount but up the surface area and should get more color out of it.