Bought a Wyeast propagator instead of an activator.

I'm completely new to homebrewing. I ordered all my supplies and a Fuggles IPA extract kit from Midwest Supplies and everything got here Saturday afternoon. I unpacked and got the yeast right in the fridge and was super excited, until...

I realized I did just enough research to screw it up. I went with liquid yeast but bought a propagator instead of an activator. I have no plans to make a starter, as I don't have the equipment, DME, or confidence yet. So as I see it, I have three options. Help me select which is the best one!

1. pitch the propagator
2. go to the local local homebrew store and buy an activator, and waste the propagator
3. buy another propagator and pitch the two propagators instead of an activator (is this possible/ok to do?)

Which would you do? And as an aside, noob question:

Do you refrigerate the yeast once you smack the pack? Or do you let it work at room temperature (I plan on getting them going tomorrow for a Wednesday brew).

Any help is much appreciated!

If making a starter is totally out of the question, I would go with option 3. An activator by itself isn't nearly enough viable yeast to properly finish fermentation. You might get lucky with it on a small enough beer, but I wouldn't risk off flavors and/or stuck fermentation. With two packs, you should be good.

No, you don't need to refrigerate the smack pack. Let it warm to room temperature, smack it, and leave it alone for a while.

Good luck come brew day!

To be honest, if you don't plan on making starters I wouldn't use liquid yeast at all. An Activator contains approximately 100 billion cells which will deliver slightly less than 6 million cells per milliliter to a 5 gallon batch of beer. Which, IMHO, is still under pitching. I consider 6 million cells/ml to be the absolute minimum. I like 10 million cells/ml for ales and 15 million cells/ml for lagers.

A Propagator contains 30 billion cells. So, adding two Propagator's will bring your cell count up to 60 billion cells, which is just over half of one Activator. Adding three Propagator's will still not get you to the cell count of one Activator.

At this point it might be worth just pitching a packet of dry yeast. Then you could get some equipment together to make a starter with your Propagator pack for another batch.

If you're willing to go to the HBS for another yeast, why not just pick up some DME and go ahead and make a starter. You don't really need any extra equipment. Just a large bottle. We'll help you with the process if you like. It takes so little time and effort. Really.

Just do this.

Boil 4 cups of water. Remove from heat and add one cup of DME. WATCH FOR BOIL OVERS! Boil for 15 minutes. Remove from heat and let cool. Add mixture to a large sanitized bottle (you can empty one while you're waiting). Add yeast, cover with tin foil. Wait.

+1 on going ahead with the starter. Don't need fancy beakers and stirplates and stuff. Just get a growler or bomber or a plastic liter/2-liter pop bottle or whatever you have handy and go for it.

+ 1 on making a quart / liter starter, you can use a gallon jug or even a soda bottle. Just sanitize first!

Yeast Starters - Home Brewing Wiki

I made many batches from liquid yeast without starters, back when I started brewing. Pitching the propagator isn't optimal, but it will work.

However, you don't need anything other than some extract and a quart bottle to make a starter.

And leave the propagator at room temperature after smacking.

If you are brewing an IPA and you dont want to make a starter then buy the activator and pitch that along with the propagator and you should be good to go.

So what did you decide on?

I vote for making a starter.

MgMt_Home_Brew said:

So what did you decide on?

I vote for making a starter.

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They don't have any activators, so it looks like a starter it is. I smacked the pack today, around 9 am. I won't be able to go get the stuff to make the starter until after 3 pm tomorrow. I hope that's ok. The yeast will only be in the starter around 16-18 hours, I hope that's ok.

Any pointers? I will check out the links in this thread, but I still have some jitters about doing it. I hope I didn't bite off more than I could chew.

About how much does DME run?

i'm new at this too, and so far out of 4 batches i brewed with propagators i pitched 2 batches without starters, and 2 with starters. i have to admit that the ones with the starters turned out a little more to my taste -- quicker, dryer and cleaner. but the other two were by no means ruined and got gobbled up just as quick.

according to yeast labs, underpitching stresses the yeast to reproduce more, and at high reproduction rates it's easier for the yeast to metabolize sugars into esters (fruity flavors) than alcohol.

how much exactly it would matter in the amount of time that it takes the yeast to reach the magic numbers before the sugars start getting converted? I don't know... perhaps someone does?

Also, do I have to adjust my recipe to account for the small amount of wort used in the starter? or just pitch it all in an not worry about it?

Personally, I don't pitch the entire starter. Once the starter has fermented out just put it in the fridge over night. The yeast will settle out to the bottom and you can carefully pour off the spent liquid. Keep just enough liquid so that you can swirl it around and liquefy the yeast slurry and pitch that into your batch.

To answer your question, you don't have to adjust your recipe at all if you decide to pour the entire starter in.

I make BIG starters, use pure O2 and let them ferment out on a stir plate, so the spent wort in my starters is some nasty, oxidized swill that I don't want in my batch.

foxual said:

Also, do I have to adjust my recipe to account for the small amount of wort used in the starter? or just pitch it all in an not worry about it?

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In your situation, pitch it all. If in the future you make a bigger starter using an Activator you might want to let it completely ferment out (2-3 days), chill and decant the spent wort. With a starter from a Propagator pack, however, just pitch the whole thing at high kraeusen (greatest yeast activity), 12 to 18 hours after pitching the yeast into the starter wort. You'll be fine. The small amount of starter won't have a flavor impact on your beer and you'll ensure that you get all the yeast you can into the wort.

Next up, temperature control. Put your fermenter in a Rubbermaid container or bathtub filled with cool water to keep your fermentation temperatures in the 65-75° range, with the lower end of that scale being preferable. You'll get a cleaner fermentation and a crisper IPA as a result. Leave the beer on the yeast 10 days to two weeks, no matter what your instructions say.
Chad

Chad's right. Pitch it all. I just saw in post#11 that you want to use it in 16-18 hours. Not enough time to let it ferment out and settle out in the fridge. Good luck, you'll be fine.

Guy at work that brews is telling me to just pitch the propogator and screw the starter. Ignore him?

Just pitching the propagator is the worst option. If you don't want to make a starter -- I resisted for a year -- then buy a pack of S-04 dry yeast and pitch it and the propagator at the same time. The S-04 will give you the English style your kit is going towards and will finish the job. No muss, no fuss.

RDWHAHB

no adjustment to recipe is necessary, take your OG reading and then pitch the yeast!

Then be patient and wait!

Oh and you do know about blow off tubes? right?

woollybugger2 said:

Oh and you do know about blow off tubes? right?

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I'm doing the primary in a 6.5 gallon bucket

People are giving you too much info, in my opinion. Sanitation is key.

If you want to make a starter, it will make your beer better, it is worth the time, but you don't have to. It will still be very good. It will take a bit longer without, but not significantly.

Until you need liquid yeast for a specific beer, you should stick with dry yeast. It is cheap, easy, and feistier, more efficient, more forgiving. <<People will argue.

foxual said:

I'm doing the primary in a 6.5 gallon bucket

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Blow-offs still happen in a bucket. I don't know what yeast you plan on using or the expected OG, but with a healthy pitch of a vigorous yeast into even an average ale, you can get some pretty righteous krausen coming up.

I had just under 5 gallons of a Porter recently (OG about 1.055 i think) that I used S-04 on in a 6.5 gallon fermenter, with no blow off tube. I don't want to get into graphic details, but I'm just glad I didn't have to mop the ceiling :rockin:

With a less vigorous yeast in a smaller beer maybe you're right, a bucket will be fine, but keep a close eye on it...and maybe get a blow off tube

borracho_brewer said:

With a less vigorous yeast in a smaller beer maybe you're right, a bucket will be fine, but keep a close eye on it...and maybe get a blow off tube

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Where would you put a blowoff tube in the bucket?

ChshreCat said:

+1 on going ahead with the starter. Don't need fancy beakers and stirplates and stuff. Just get a growler or bomber or a plastic liter/2-liter pop bottle or whatever you have handy and go for it.

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+1 I made a starter with my last batch with an empty 40oz.

foxual said:

Where would you put a blowoff tube in the bucket?

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There's always this:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/airlock-bubbling-over-95581/

So I went ahead with the starter... it makes me nervous. I was super careful about sanitation, I sanitized my hands and even the tinfoil... it will only be there for 16 hours or so, so what should I expect? Bubbling, foaming?

I went with 4 cups of water to one cup Muntons Amber DME, boiled for 15 minutes. Cooled to 70º and pitched the yeast.

I ran into the same issue last week. I wound up pitching the propagator (my pouch was completely swollen). My airlock was popping within 24 hours and is still going strong.

Either way, it will turn out fine. While it may not be optimal, it is really hard to screw up a batch as long as you sanitize everything.

Keep us updated. I am curious how long your batch takes to start fermenting.

OrlandoHomeBrewer said:

I ran into the same issue last week. I wound up pitching the propagator (my pouch was completely swollen). My airlock was popping within 24 hours and is still going strong.

Either way, it will turn out fine. While it may not be optimal, it is really hard to screw up a batch as long as you sanitize everything.

Keep us updated. I am curious how long your batch takes to start fermenting.

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I will keep you updated.

Typically with a starter you don't see much because it ferments out pretty quick. But you should see some krauzen or a krauzen ring from when it was up. You will also see a lot of sediment in the bottom. It is my understanding that this is a mixture of yeast, protiens, and other by products of fermentation.

When I pitch my starters I make sure to swirl it all around to kick up all that trub and pitch it with the rest of the starter.

foxual said:

I will keep you updated.

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We brewed at my parent's house so I can't be there to check on it every hour (good for the patience thing, that's for sure). I stopped over after work today, and the airlock was bubbling away, about 24 hours after we sealed everything up!

I'm super excited!

karmabrew said:

+1 I made a starter with my last batch with an empty 40oz.

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did ya at least rinse the Old English out of it?