Cream Ale: To corn or not to corn?

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duffman2

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Hey All,

I'm doing an AG batch of an AHS cream ale Friday and was looking for tips when I saw that most people use corn flakes in their mash. Now, I'm not sure yet what they've got in their kit but it didn't mention this on the description. So, if not included, should I add some? And what about oats for body?

Also, I'm curious about the brewing process. I figured this was just a regular ale with Malto for a nice creamy taste, but I saw something about lagering this ale? I know I bought an ale yeast but do I have to ferment at lager temps? Kinda like the reverse steam beer process? Just trying to get my ducks in a row before brew day!

Thanks for any tips :ban:
 
No oats! A cream ale isn't the least bit "creamy"- it's a very light lager-ish ale. Corn is used to lighten the body, if necessary, but not required. It's a "light hybrid" type of beer.

From the BJCP guidelines on cream ale:

6A. Cream Ale
Aroma: Faint malt notes. A sweet, corn-like aroma and low levels of DMS are commonly found. Hop aroma low to none. Any variety of hops may be used, but neither hops nor malt dominate. Faint esters may be present in some examples, but are not required. No diacetyl.

Appearance: Pale straw to moderate gold color, although usually on the pale side. Low to medium head with medium to high carbonation. Head retention may be no better than fair due to adjunct use. Brilliant, sparkling clarity.

Flavor: Low to medium-low hop bitterness. Low to moderate maltiness and sweetness, varying with gravity and attenuation. Usually well attenuated. Neither malt nor hops prevail in the taste. A low to moderate corny flavor from corn adjuncts is commonly found, as is some DMS. Finish can vary from somewhat dry to faintly sweet from the corn, malt, and sugar. Faint fruity esters are optional. No diacetyl.

Mouthfeel: Generally light and crisp, although body can reach medium. Smooth mouthfeel with medium to high attenuation; higher attenuation levels can lend a "thirst quenching" finish. High carbonation. Higher gravity examples may exhibit a slight alcohol warmth.

Overall Impression: A clean, well-attenuated, flavorful American lawnmower beer.

History: An ale version of the American lager style. Produced by ale brewers to compete with lager brewers in the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic States. Originally known as sparkling or present use ales, lager strains were (and sometimes still are) used by some brewers, but were not historically mixed with ale strains. Many examples are kräusened to achieve carbonation. Cold conditioning isn't traditional, although modern brewers sometimes use it.

Comments: Classic American (i.e. pre-prohibition) Cream Ales were slightly stronger, hoppier (including some dry hopping) and more bitter (25-30+ IBUs). These versions should be entered in the specialty/experimental category. An OG of 1.050 - 1.053 is most common and IBUs are rarely as high as 25.

Ingredients: American ingredients most commonly used. A grain bill of six-row malt, or a combination of six-row and North American two-row, is common. Adjuncts can include up to 20% flaked maize in the mash, and up to 20% glucose or other sugars in the boil. Soft water preferred. Any variety of hops can be used for bittering and finishing.

Vital Statistics:
OG FG IBUs SRM ABV
1.042 - 1.055 1.006 - 1.012 15 - 20+ 2.5 - 5 4.2 - 5.6%

Commercial Examples: Genesee Cream Ale, Little Kings Cream Ale (Hudepohl), Sleeman Cream Ale, Liebotschaner Cream Ale (Lion Brewery), Dave's Original Cream Ale (Molson), New Glarus Spotted Cow Farmhouse Ale, Wisconsin Brewing Whitetail Cream Ale
 
I curse the soul who named this style. Just to reiterate: nothing creamy about a cream ale.

To address the original question, I think corn should be included. I use flaked maize (as opposed to corn flakes, the breakfast cereal). I'd bet that the kit includes some.
 
If it's extract it likely comes with rice syrup, all grain probably with flaked corn. AHS does not post recipes so I don't buy them.

I've used grits and corn meal. They work best with a cereal mash. Popped corn is gelitenized and can be mashed. I've yet to try it.
 
Coastarine said:
I curse the soul who named this style. Just to reiterate: nothing creamy about a cream ale.
Click to expand...

Really? I find good cream ales to indeed be quite "creamy."

And to me it comes from the corn adjunct. I use flaked maize in mine.

To me there's a big difference for example in corn adjunct lagers and rice adjunct lagers...I think rice lagers think bud are much dryer than let's say Llabats, which has more corn in it, and seems "smoother" i.e creamy...

If you've ever shucked or cooked with corn, the starch liquid that come off it when you are shucking or even just mashing corn kernels is very white and milk like....

very creamy...

Don't forget how thick and creamy corn syrup is..

To me cream ales are really smooth, yet still crisp an clean. But definitely creamy to me....

Cream Ale is an indigenous American beer style. Usually brewed with lager yeast at warmer ale temperatures, it is a light-colored, mild-flavored beer, with a base similar to an American pale lager and often a distinctive corn flavor from the use of corn adjuncts. In its heyday, cream ale was also known as Common Beer or Present Use Ale.

In the U.K., the term "Cream Ale" is sometimes used to describe nitrogen-dispensed beers, now more commonly called Smooth Ale.

History of Cream Ale

Once common in the United States, especially in the upper Midwest, Cream Ale was one of the few indigenous American beer styles to have survived Prohibition in the United States, due in part to its popularity in Canada, where Prohibition was less widespread and shorter.

Types of Cream Ale

In addition to standard cream ales, in the area around Louisville a distinct style of dark, sometimes slightly sour beer arose which was sometimes called Common Beer or Dark Cream Common; this style is now most frequently called Kentucky Common.

Brewing Cream Ale

The keys to cream ale brewing are yeast strain and temperature control. Historically, lager yeast was generally used, but because refrigeration was not generally available, fermentation temperatures were high, as was the case with Steam Beer. Some modern brewers use both ale and lager strains, usually pitched together at the beginning of the fermentation. However, there is no evidence that this was a method known before Prohibition.

To avoid excessive ester production from the lager yeast, temperature control is essential. A fermentation temperature of approximately 68 degrees F is often a good balance, especially when both ale and lager yeasts are used, but you will need to experiment based on your individual yeast and wort characteristics.

The grist for a cream ale usually includes a mixture of six-row American pale barley malt and corn adjuncts, which can give a distinctive DMS-like corn flavor and aroma that many consider characteristic of this style.
Click to expand...
 
I associate "creamy" with "thick and creamy" and to me that is the opposite of a cream ale. I agree with smooth, but not creamy. A dry and thinner bodied beer isn't at the same time creamy, at least to most people.

Don't forget how thick and creamy rice syrup is:p
 
Well I associate creamy with a creamy mouth feel, and my favorite cream ales, as well as my favorite macro brewed lagers, I have have come to realize are corn adjuncted beers. And they have that.

Consequently the dryest commercial lagers, and to me the least enjoyable are those like BUD that are rice adjuncted.
 
All right. In one shiny brand new Cream Ale AG kit, we have.....

Cara Pils Malt
Crystal 40
2 row malt
1/2 lb Malto Dextrin

and 2 oz hops. That's it. No Corn. Nothing else.

So....do I break out the corn flakes tomorrow? Go hunting for flaked corn maize (I have no idea what aisle that'd be in).

As far as the process, I have dry ale yeast. The instructions say nothing about fermenting any other way, so I assume I'll be just fine fermenting at 65 F. But I do have my keezer now and could possibly do it at 45 F if this will make it better.......
 
Coastarine said:
I curse the soul who named this style. Just to reiterate: nothing creamy about a cream ale.
Click to expand...

That and the geniuses who came up with "Bitters" for English ales.

While "we" may know what a "cream ale" and a "bitters" are...try getting the beer challenged to not say..."Oh...it tastes like cream soda then???" when you offer them a pint.

Corn is not required but it goes a long way to lighten the body. If you prefer...just add up to 10% table sugar and it will really turn out crisp.

My last half dozen or so iterations of the C of 3C's removes one pound of corn and replaces with sugar.
 
I've made tons of cream ales with 2+ lbs of flaked maize. They are dry and crisp. It does add a flavor and a body, but it's far from "creamy". When I think "creamy", I think Cream Stout...milky, creamy, etc.

Corn Syrup is a bad example...it would ferment out and would not be "creamy" in the end. My $0.02.

And yes, you should add corn :) I would ferment low (low 60s) to make it more clean. I prefer the WLP080 Cream Ale Yeast Blend, which has lager and ale strains in it, fermented at just below 60°F. Your ale yeast will not ferment at 45°F.
 
duffman2 said:
All right. In one shiny brand new Cream Ale AG kit, we have.....

Cara Pils Malt
Crystal 40
2 row malt
1/2 lb Malto Dextrin

and 2 oz hops. That's it. No Corn. Nothing else.

So....do I break out the corn flakes tomorrow? Go hunting for flaked corn maize (I have no idea what aisle that'd be in).

As far as the process, I have dry ale yeast. The instructions say nothing about fermenting any other way, so I assume I'll be just fine fermenting at 65 F. But I do have my keezer now and could possibly do it at 45 F if this will make it better.......
Click to expand...

You won't likely find them in an aisle at a supermarket. Quick grits will work fine right in the mash (but will yield more extract with a cereal mash.)

Personally I think a cream ale without corn is a really a blonde ale. I wouldn't use the malto-dextrin in eather one.
 
Conroe said:
You won't likely find them in an aisle at a supermarket. Quick grits will work fine right in the mash (but will yield more extract with a cereal mash.)

Personally I think a cream ale without corn is a really a blonde ale. I wouldn't use the malto-dextrin in eather one.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'd skip the MD. That would give the beer body and a thicker mouthfeel. Totally out of place in a beer where you add corn to lighten the body.

Still, the recipe might be fine. It might be what you're looking for, if you liked the description when you ordered it.
 
YooperBrew said:
Yeah, I'd skip the MD. That would give the beer body and a thicker mouthfeel. Totally out of place in a beer where you add corn to lighten the body.

Still, the recipe might be fine. It might be what you're looking for, if you liked the description when you ordered it.
Click to expand...

You're right Yoop. I think I'm looking more for the thicker body and mouthfeel (Wow, don't know if that came out right or not;)). Anyways, maybe I'll skip the corn this time and just go with what I got. Then I'll try it the other way next time.

Has anyone ever tried it this way??
 
+1. It'll still be a good beer, just not what I'd call Cream Ale.

The important bit is in the style description. Cream Ale is really just Light Lager fermented with an ale yeast instead of a lager yeast - at least that was so before Prohibition. So brew a Classic American Pilsner or Light Lager and ferment it with a clean - very, very few esters - ale yeast. See my drop-down for ReinSchmiPielsyaddayadda - a Classic American Pilsner if ever one existed. Then sub S-05 for the lager yeast and ferment it cool.

Done.

Hell, I might try that. I've got a batch of ReinSchmiPielsyaddayadda fermenting in my 50F back basement right now. I should brew a Cream Ale version and compare 'em.

Hmmmmm....

Bob
 
I'd like to try the cream ale blend with it.
WLP080 Cream Ale Yeast Blend
This is a blend of ale and lager yeast strains. The strains work together to create a clean, crisp, light American lager style ale. A pleasing estery aroma may be perceived from the ale yeast contribution. Hop flavors and bitterness are slightly subdued. Slight sulfur will be produced during fermentation, from the lager yeast.
Click to expand...
 
DeathBrewer said:
I've made tons of cream ales with 2+ lbs of flaked maize...

I would ferment low (low 60s) to make it more clean. I prefer the WLP080 Cream Ale Yeast Blend, which has lager and ale strains in it, fermented at just below 60°F. Your ale yeast will not ferment at 45°F.
Click to expand...

+1 on this.

I really like the WLP080, but if you can't get that you can use the San Francisco Lager yeast @60-62ºF. I also like to do a 50/50 blend of 6-row/2-row for my base malt. I think the extra enzymatic power of the 6-row helps get through the 20% flaked maize.

It's also a good young beer, I've had this one on tap 4 weeks after brewing, and it was a big hit.
 
Bsquared said:
+1 on this.

I really like the WLP080, but if you can't get that you can use the San Francisco Lager yeast @60-62ºF. I also like to do a 50/50 blend of 6-row/2-row for my base malt. I think the extra enzymatic power of the 6-row helps get through the 20% flaked maize.

It's also a good young beer, I've had this one on tap 4 weeks after brewing, and it was a big hit.
Click to expand...

Nah, I've done 30% corn with basic american 2-row before. 90 min mash, chewed through it fine at 148
 
Bsquared said:
+1 on this.

I really like the WLP080, but if you can't get that you can use the San Francisco Lager yeast @60-62ºF. I also like to do a 50/50 blend of 6-row/2-row for my base malt. I think the extra enzymatic power of the 6-row helps get through the 20% flaked maize.

It's also a good young beer, I've had this one on tap 4 weeks after brewing, and it was a big hit.
Click to expand...

I love the WLP810 SF Lager yeast, but that is a much FUNKIER yeast...it will not be crisp and clean like a lager, it will be spicy and funky like a steam beer.

The 6-row is not necessary to convert the maize...there is plenty of enzymes in there. It's good for flavor, tho...a little more "bready" and supposedly more traditional. I really like my 6-row cream ales. However, my pilsner/2-row cream is still one of the best beers out there. It uses pilsner, 2row, munich, vienna, flaked wheat and flaked corn. Nummy. :)

Definitely a good beer to drink young. If you make it really light in alcohol, you can drink it in 2 weeks from the keg :)
:mug:
 
The cream ale I made with Belgian pils, grits, corn meal and a can of unsalted corn was the best one I've made (even had a dash of Argentine Cascades.) I going to use popcorn in the next.
 
I definitely don't think the 6-Row is necessary, but between the all 2-row, and the 50/50 blend I really preferred the 6-row/2-row blend.

It's a good point about the bread character of the 6-row, That might add to the cream ale taste.

As for SF-Lager being funky, I've not noticed that.I used it on an American premium pils, and my commons, so the hops of those beers might drown out the funk. As well I'm using it @ 58-62ºF, so I might get funky at higher temps.
 
As it turns out, my next brew will be a Cream Ale... I'm going to try a recipe I did in August over again, to get it "right". My last batch had a shock of haze (I'm not sure if it was starch haze or not), and was too sulfury.

This time, I'm using the same grain bill, but I'm decocting the sumbitch, to step through a protein rest. I'm also not going to use the White Labs Cream Ale yeast... I feel that touch of lager yeast just threw a bunch of sulfur into the flavor. I'm going to go with a good clean highly attenuating ale yeast this time.

I'm toying with throwing a vanilla bean into the batch as it cold-conditions, for a little surprise on the palate!
 
Every time I've brewed a Cream Ale and brought it to a club meeting, the first question I'm asked by everyone (including he BJCP judges) is "How much Lactose did you put in this and when?" My answer: "None. It's all in the fermentation temps and controlling the lagering."

Cream Ale, when done right, can make the staunchest IPA drinker sit back for a second, get "that smile" on thier face and then relax and enjoy it as a session beer. It's really one of the few drinkable syles where hops and malt get equal display.
 

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