Oh noooo nail polish

Well I brewed a Beverian black beer lager or shwartzbier. I sampled after about two weeks in primary, and found 2 problems:

1) Smelled like nail polish remover a little, tasted fine, but did leave a burning sensation in the back of my throat like vodka. I assume this is from fermenting to warm creating fuisal alchol...Will this fade with time?

2) FG was suppose to be 1.014 it is at 1.021???

What temp did you ferment at?

Well I was following the yeast instructions and started fermentation at 65, then at signs of fermentation I dropped temp to 50-55F.

Then you fermented at the proper temps. I would bring the temp back up to 65 and let it finish fermenting (this would be a diacetyl rest). Then rack, bring the temp back down to 50-55 and let it sit for a few weeks before bottling. It's really tough to judge a beer after two weeks in primary. Give it time and I'm sure all will be well.

I don't think a diacetyl rest will help. Generally, acetone-like flavors come from a combination of too-high fermentation temperatures and oxidation. Those two things combine to give you that flavor.

What yeast did you use? I wonder if it took too long to lower the temperature from 65 to 50 degrees once it got going. If it was actively fermenting at 65, how long did it take for the beer to reach 50 degrees inside the fermenter? I'm just thinking that this is the issue, but there could be other explanations.

I used WLP838...I would say it took at least a day or 2 to get down to 55, then another day to get to 50. I let it sit at 50-55 for probably 4 days....at the end of this time the kresent was pretty much gone so I slowly started to rise for a diacetyl rest.

Do I need more yeast to get the FG down? Or should I just ride it out?

I just don't know. WLP838 should have given you about 70-77% attenuation. What did you start with? Did you use a big starter?

I think if the optimum temperature is 50-55, but the majority of the fermentation took place at a higher temperature (and it obviously did, if it took 3 days to get there, and the krausen was gone a couple of days after that), that would explain the off-flavor somewhat, but I'd expect it to be more sulfury than like acetone.

You may have the poor attenuation from dropping the temperature during fermentation, which may slow or stall the fermentation. If that's the case, it should pick up during the diacetyl rest and finish up. What I like to do is pitch a big, big starter at fermentation temperature, and it avoids these issues.

If the SG is still too high after the diacetyl rest, then I don't have an answer for you. You've got me stumped here. Two things going on- lack of attenuation and the off-flavor. I have a feeling that both are temperature related and/or related to underpitching the yeast.

I made a starter based on Palmer's book....1 pint water, 1/2 cup dme. I am brewing right now and have done this same thing for this Kolsch yeast I am using. I hope that is an ok starter. My OG for the beer was 1.045.

Also, I have been at a diacetyl rest now for probably 2 days at 62F. Should I bring the temp up more?

daveooph131 said:

I made a starter based on Palmer's book....1 pint water, 1/2 cup dme. I am brewing right now and have done this same thing for this Kolsch yeast I am using. I hope that is an ok starter. My OG for the beer was 1.045.

Also, I have been at a diacetyl rest now for probably 2 days at 62F. Should I bring the temp up more?

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No, I wouldn't change the temperature yet again. The yeast is already pretty stressed. Let it sit until you get a reasonable FG. If the OG was 1.045, I'd expect it to finish at 1.010-1.014, depending on ingredients.

That starter size is fine for most regular ales. Next time, especially for lagers, or for a cold ale ferment like a kolsch, check out mrmalty.com and click on the "pitching calculator" to see how big of a starter is recommended.

Ok will do, bur for my kolsch this go around that is currently boiling will the starter I made be ok. I am using WLP029, and I was under the impression I should ferment around 65F for 2 weeks, then once FG is reached I can drop to lager for a few weeks...Is this correct?

daveooph131 said:

Ok will do, bur for my kolsch this go around that is currently boiling will the starter I made be ok. I am using WLP029, and I was under the impression I should ferment around 65F for 2 weeks, then once FG is reached I can drop to lager for a few weeks...Is this correct?

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I like to ferment a little lower, around 60-62, for that yeast, but I know that their website recommends the temperature you're choosing. That should be ok, but don't let it get warmer than that. And you're right- after you get to your FG, you can lager it a bit to really give you a smooth, crisp finish.

Check out the mrmalty.com pitching calculator, though. It's easy, and you just put in the kind of beer you're making, the OG, and the date of the yeast. It'll tell you the optimum size starter- I think you'll be very surprised at what's recommended.

Yooper - Thanks for all the advice on the Shwartzbier. Since the weekend it has dropped from 1.020 to 1.018...I was going to keg, but will give it a few more days to see if it drops anymore. The high end of the style guidline is 1.016 so I am hoping I can get there.

Also, the hot alchol flavor has subsided by about 80 percent, hardly detectable. I guess time heals all!!!

Next time I will definitely start fermentation lower though.

daveooph131 said:

Also, the hot alchol flavor has subsided by about 80 percent, hardly detectable. I guess time heals all!!!

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Sweet! Who was it that predicted that would happen?

HOOTER said:

It's really tough to judge a beer after two weeks in primary. Give it time and I'm sure all will be well.

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Oh yeah, it was me!