So the past two times i've made to five gallon batches of apfelwein, one of 5 gallons has become infected. The first time I didn't notice until after bottling and it tasted terrible, like the yeast had a awful aftertaste and smell (EC 1118). Each bottle had bumps on the yeast cake, about the size of bb's. This looked much different than any beer yeast cake and kinda looked like a petri dish. NOW, my carboy with 2month old apfelwein is developing and growing these same bumps on its yeast cake. Is this autolysis? It seems to be yeast derived and not a sanitation issue. Especially given the time it takes to show signs. Any thoughts?
Apfelwein yeast cake lumps, infection
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Dos_Locos_Brewery
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I doubt it's autolysis. If your yeast is in good health, you'll be hard pressed to ever get autolysis. Why do you think it's not sanitation? It sounds exactly like infection to me. Do you use campden tablets?
A couple reasons: I sanatise meticulously with iodophor. The infection, or whatever it is, develops from the bottom yeast. It takes months to develop. I would think that if I got an infection it would happen sooner and would develop from the top, the only opening. I never get beer infections and this apfelwein infection gets me 50% of the time. I don't use campden
assuming this is an infection, I'm interested in the type of infection. I can't seem to find this anywhere in what I've researched.
HillbillyDeluxe
Well-Known Member
I make apfelwien in an opaque bucket and have never looked at the yeast cake during fermentation. How is the flavor? Does it taste infected? Are you reusing your yeast cake? I have however tried a few different yeasts for apfelwien and got some pretty unfavorable(yet drinkable) results.
I pitch fresh packs of 1118 on it every time and have never used a different yeast. The yeast doesn't always perform this way. It tastes and smells like vomit. But in a background yet tame sort of way
. I can drink it, but I don't like it. The apfelwein that doesn't have this characteristic has a hint of that flavor if it is young and you pour in a bit of the yeast from the bottom of the bottle.
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How long are you fermenting? How long until this comes up?
Yeast completely dropped out of suspension a month ago. Time has blocked me from bottling and the lumps started to appear three days ago. They are multiplying everyday. The airlock hasn't been removed at all since pitching, so I am unsure if the flavor has the same profile, but I assume it does.
HillbillyDeluxe
Well-Known Member
I think i know what pulse is getting at. Maybe fermenting too long. I like the apfelwine relatively young. In fact, a frenchman in biker shorts has a better chance of getting down that river in deliverance unmolested than a 5 gal keg of apfelwine does of aging past 3 monts here.
Then we are looking at autolysis, right? This seems to be caused by the yeast, and develops late. Not sure what else it could be. Many people are very quick to disregard autolysis, and I am not sure why. It seems very real to me.
Dos_Locos_Brewery
Well-Known Member
Autolysis is not impossible, but in my experience very unlikely. I've used EC-1118 for many wines, and have never been very fastidious about getting them off the yeast sediment. This has never caused autolysis. I know what autolysis tastes like - more like rubber bands to my palate, but I guess "vomit" could be in the range of impressions. Anyway, my autolysis was with a severely under-pitched barleywine. Yeast health was definitely the issue, because it did not even carbonate.
Infection could come from the juice itself. Without sulfite, any microbe present could cause an infection, and in my experience it is typical that bad flavors from an infection like this develop over weeks/months. Perhaps a better bet would be to use K1-V1116 - it supposedly dispatches native microbes more aggressively. It ferments a bit dry for this application, but "too dry" is easily distinguished from "vomit".
Infection could come from the juice itself. Without sulfite, any microbe present could cause an infection, and in my experience it is typical that bad flavors from an infection like this develop over weeks/months. Perhaps a better bet would be to use K1-V1116 - it supposedly dispatches native microbes more aggressively. It ferments a bit dry for this application, but "too dry" is easily distinguished from "vomit".
Very helpful. I appreciate it. I'll look into that yeast. Native microbes in the juice itself would seem more likely to show signs late than poor sanitation.
Well, I've researched this most of last night and I conclude that I have hydrogen sulphide contamination. The symptoms are dead on. Milky-white balls precipitating to the bottom and later binding with yeast post fermentation. One site offers a few causes of this in wine and are quoted below:
-Too much sulfites, usually the result of grapes being dusted with too much sulfur during the growing season
-Lack of proper nutrients (nitrogen, yeast hulls) during fermentation
-Yeast combining with various forms of sulfur (some folks swear that Red Star Montrachet yeast is notorious for causing H2S, but we've never experienced this ourselves)
-Bacterial contamination due to poor sanitation technique
-Too much sulfites, usually the result of grapes being dusted with too much sulfur during the growing season
-Lack of proper nutrients (nitrogen, yeast hulls) during fermentation
-Yeast combining with various forms of sulfur (some folks swear that Red Star Montrachet yeast is notorious for causing H2S, but we've never experienced this ourselves)
-Bacterial contamination due to poor sanitation technique
