Quick Response Needed: Parti Gyle with Added Grain

Hello,

So I finally had some time off work today and I wanted to brew a beer. I was kind of looking at brewing two and I was interested in the parti gyle technique, but I wanted to add grain to the mash before doing the second beer - I don't know the name for this particular technique so I can't find info for it.

Essentially, I am brewing a rye with 3# rye and 9.75# of pale with about 1.5# of aciduated and .75# carapils. I have an interesting hop schedule with chinook FWHs and Southern Cross flavor with Nelson Souvin aroma.

I want to brew an interesting pale on top of it (hoping it will take on just a bit of the rye flavor and some of the pale sugars - then I just want to add pale malt on top and make a simple pale ale with a new hop schedule.

So my question is this: How would I calculate the second beer? I want to brew the first beer just normally including lautering it.

I really want to brew within the hour, so any help is appreciated. Thanks!

-Scott

so after you lauder the base beer, you're gonna add more base malt and mash for another hour? or lauder the first runnings as one beer, then use the 2nd + 3rd as another...

this might help:
http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue2.2/mosher.html#3

You could do a separate stove top mash in a kettle, then add it on top of your first, and re-sparge.

motobrewer said:

so after you lauder the base beer, you're gonna add more base malt and mash for another hour? or lauder the first runnings as one beer, then use the 2nd + 3rd as another...

this might help:
http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue2.2/mosher.html#3

Click to expand...

I am just really afraid that the grain bill isn't big enough for that. I have already purchased the grain for the first beer... I am not at all opposed to getting a much smaller yield for the second beer if we can come to a consensus that the 2nd and 3rd runnings are big enough to get a beer, but the first beer is kind of a masterpiece beer I have been working on with a local brewmaster from one of my favorite breweries here - so my #1 priority is having that beer come out great...

Hex said:

You could do a separate stove top mash in a kettle, then add it on top of your first, and re-sparge.

Click to expand...

So run two separate mashes, combine the grain for what would be a 3rd running of my larger beer and a second running of my smaller beer? Did I get that right?

Thanks,
Scott

i just did a parti-gyle on a ris, 26lb of grain (I normally get around 70% total brewhouse eff)

RIS was 1.107 (5gal), that was from the first runnings + 1-2 gallons of the second. I got 5 gallons of a small stout wort that was 1.040 using the 2nd and 3rd runnings.

motobrewer said:

i just did a parti-gyle on a ris, 26lb of grain (I normally get around 70% total brewhouse eff)

RIS was 1.107 (5gal), that was from the first runnings + 1-2 gallons of the second. I got 5 gallons of a small stout wort that was 1.040 using the 2nd and 3rd runnings.

Click to expand...

Yeah, that's why I really don't think a parti-gyle is exactly what I am wanting to do. I don't have that really big first beer that I want. I have a regular rye ipa and I just want to pull some of the flavors from that grain bill into a separate pale ale during the same brew day to cut down on cleaning up after two brewdays.

then you'll either have to add more malt to the original mash, or do a separate mash.

motobrewer said:

then you'll either have to add more malt to the original mash, or do a separate mash.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I like the idea of mashing on the stove and then adding the leftover mashes together and lautering through both mashes, but I don't know how to calculate what I will get out of this in terms of sugar... I am guessing there may not be a way to calculate it well in terms of yield or temperature...

Maybe I will just wing it... Use BIAB on the stove, move the BIAB to the mash tun lauter on top of my 1st mash and see what I get. The second beer is a cheap beer anyways. I think I will just go for it.

if you're mashing 15lb and doing a regular lauter, i bet you won't have much left at all, maybe around 10 points for 5 gallons.

here's a spreadsheet that might help:
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Batch_Sparge_and_Party_Gyle_Simulator

just go for it i say. if you have too small of an og for a second beer i would just add some extract or something.

I just did a similar parti-gyle, a 3 gallon Belgian Golden Strong Ale, and a 5.5 gallon APA. I mashed all 2-row in the big cooler, and in parallel a mini with a little 2-row and some crystal. After pulling the Big beer off, I added the mini mash to the big cooler for final sparging. Is this what you are trying to accomplish?

lalnx said:

I just did a similar parti-gyle, a 3 gallon Belgian Golden Strong Ale, and a 5.5 gallon APA. I mashed all 2-row in the big cooler, and in parallel a mini with a little 2-row and some crystal. After pulling the Big beer off, I added the mini mash to the big cooler for final sparging. Is this what you are trying to accomplish?

Click to expand...

Yes, something like this... If I ever make it there, I am battling a stuck sparge right now because of the 3# rye. I didn't realize that this stuff was worse than wheat, but man!!! I emptied the MLT as far as it would go and finally went on to hit it with the hot sparge water because I could just not free up the mash any other way. It is running ok now, but we will see how it does when we get to the end of this sparge.

At the moment, the thought of dumping another 9# of grain in with what is essentially concrete at the bottom of my MLT isn't a comforting thought. I am going to do the initial mash for the second beer as a BIAB to get the main gravity and then I will consider combining the mashes at the end to sparge off what's left of the first beer. We will see how this goes...

UPDATE:

Well, I ended up stopping after the first round of sparge. When I cleaned everything up, I noticed that my stainless braid at the bottom of my tun had collapsed in a couple of places, so that definitely contributed. I will have to replace the screen - next time I think I will use a circular construction to spread out the surface area a bit. The rye was a huge challenge though, I will think twice about how I want to mash the next time I mash rye, definitely will consider the rice hulls.

Pulled that beer and the APA off in the end though. Both will be pretty high in alcohol due to high boiloff rate with the wind and it being cold.

dragonlor20 said:

At the moment, the thought of dumping another 9# of grain in

Click to expand...

My main mash was 16lbs, and my mini that I added after first runnings was only an additional 1.5 lbs, so a little different than yours.