Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

ok cool i wasnt sure about how much activity it would have. next time i may just bypass the blow off tube to minimalize chance of infection switching to an airlock.
thanks jewrican.

yes i did use pasturized AJ so i didnt boil it

heres a couple pics

are these spots infection or just yeast granules that got caught of neck of carboy? appeared less than 12 hours after pitching yeast

that looks to me like dry yeast in the neck of the carboy. I could be wrong, but that is what it looks like to me.

yeah thats what im thinking and really hoping thats all it is. im gonna relax and not stress it. also i may be wrong but seems weird that it could be there so quickly if it was a bacterial infection. this is my first time using dry yeast and i know im jumping the gun but am thinking i will only use liquid if available in the future. i use glass carboys for primary and its difficult to get yest spread evenly onto surface through the small carboy neck opening versus the ease of use with the liquid yeast.

thanks again jewrican

Just set a 5 Gal batch. Sounded too good not to pass up.

Nottingham
.25 lbs of Crystal 60L
.25 lbs of Crystal 120L
1 oz of torrified wheat
4 Gallons of apple juice (Kroger Brand)
1 lb. amber and 1 lb. light DME
1 oz 3% AA Hops

Tim

You may want to put that in a bigger vessel or add a blow off tube.

Clifton said:

You may want to put that in a bigger vessel or add a blow off tube.

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So far very little activity. I'll have to do a blow off tube if it gets over active as I have no other container.

Would it be safe to siphon some off at this point?

cyberlord said:

So far very little activity. I'll have to do a blow off tube if it gets over active as I have no other container.

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OK, blow off rigged using my siphon wand and hose.

Activity picked up and a little krausen has formed in the neck.

Hope it overflows before I go to bed so I can be sure it's working as designed.

Has anyone reused the yeast and just added wort and apple juice to a yeast cake from a previous batch that was just kegged?

Hopenstein said:

Has anyone reused the yeast and just added wort and apple juice to a yeast cake from a previous batch that was just kegged?

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Yes, you can do it, but consider washing your yeast. Here's a write-up: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/yeast-washing-illustrated-41768/

Hopenstein said:

Has anyone reused the yeast and just added wort and apple juice to a yeast cake from a previous batch that was just kegged?

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I did that with my graff yeast for an American Wheat test batch. I also washed yeast from a graff batch which I haven't reused yet. I can say with all certainty that the American Wheat carried over some of the apple flavor (which of course wouldn't matter when doing another graff with it).

Hopenstein said:

Has anyone reused the yeast and just added wort and apple juice to a yeast cake from a previous batch that was just kegged?

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My answer doesn't directly answer your question, but may be useful to you or others. I once transferred 4 gallons of a brown ale to secondary and added 4 gallons of apple juice to the remaining gallon of beer and yeast.

It turned out great.

Did a batch of this over the week-end. Just wondering how long before I should see some activity. I used hydrated Notty and everything is dead still. Am I being a bit impatient? Thanks

24 - 48 hours you should see some activity

What temp is it at currently? too cold and the yeast will go dormant.

It's at 68.

take a sample and test with hydrometer if it has been more than 48 hours. You may need to repitch.. maybe yeast were not healthy

I thought about just dumping another dry yeast on top, instead of hydrating.

test it first but I would rehydrate again.

Decided to wait a day and was the right choice. Got up this morning and checked, and the Graff was bubbling away! Go figure:rockin:

Just made this last night. I had a bit of a brain fart and dumped a full oz of hops in instead of just the half, so we'll see what comes. I figure worse case scenario I'll back sweeten it a bit to compensate, but I'm a bit of a hop head to begin with.

PSUSkier said:

Just made this last night. I had a bit of a brain fart and dumped a full oz of hops in instead of just the half, so we'll see what comes. I figure worse case scenario I'll back sweeten it a bit to compensate, but I'm a bit of a hop head to begin with.

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I often use an ounce... don't sweat it!

I brewed a batch of this 2 weeks ago and the yeast has not dropped from the top. Anyone else have this happen? I figured it would've dropped by now. Im not gonna rush anything so I'll just let it sit for a few more days and if the yeast doesn't drop out I'll start taking gravity readings for the next 3 days to see if it's reached terminal gravity.

has anyone ever tried this with a belgian yeast?

I have been eyeballing this thread for a long time now. I think I will be brewing up a batch this weekend. I think for the first attempt, I will stick to the original recipe and see how it goes.

Gonna be brewing up a 5 gallon batch this weekend with fresh pressed Ontario apple juice!

Brewing a batch of this now. instead of torrified wheat I added 3oz Victory malt and 3oz Carapils, plus am using about 1/3oz amarillo I had stashed away in the freezer. Really looking forward to tapping this one

OG 14.4 Brix (1.058)

My first batch of this stuff turned out great but it was a bit different from the original recipe. I just used what I had laying around so I mashed some Belgian aromatic malt and flaked wheat, 2.25 lbs of light DME and .3 oz Kent Goldings.

I'm doing another one today that's a lot closer to the original recipe:

4 oz Crystal 60L
4 oz Crystal 120L
2 oz Flaked Wheat
1 lb Light DME
1 lb Amber DME
2 gal Mott's apple juice
2 gal store brand cider
1 oz Saaz

I haven't added the hops yet so I may end up doing less but I feel like a full oz of Saaz should be fine since it's only like 2.5%AA

tdogg said:

has anyone ever tried this with a belgian yeast?

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I say try it.
I haven't but I've done this https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/ffarg-apple-ale-287198/index2.html#post3658421

I tried a batch of this using frozen apple juice concentrate as the "cider" and without the torrified wheat. I rehydrated my yeast (Nottingham) the evening before in some actual fresh pressed cider (w/o preservatives) that had been heated to 140 for ~ 10 minutes (and a bit of brown sugar). I cooked everything up, put it into the primary and pitched the yeast and it has been ~24 hours and still no bubbles.

Any words of encouragement from fellow brewers?

jamessh said:

I tried a batch of this using frozen apple juice concentrate as the "cider" and without the torrified wheat. I rehydrated my yeast (Nottingham) the evening before in some actual fresh pressed cider (w/o preservatives) that had been heated to 140 for ~ 10 minutes (and a bit of brown sugar). I cooked everything up, put it into the primary and pitched the yeast and it has been ~24 hours and still no bubbles.

Any words of encouragement from fellow brewers?

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Can you pull the container out of the garbage and list the ingredients in the frozen concentrate? There might have been preservatives that are hampering things.

What temperature was the wort when you pitched the yeast? Was it dry yeast? If so, did you rehydrate it first? Did you make a 5 gal batch, or a small batch with a lot of air space in the bucket? What temperature is the room that the buck is in?

No bubbles in the airlock doesn't necessarily mean no fermentation, but I'd be a little paranoid at 24 hours, too.

PortlandPatrick said:

Can you pull the container out of the garbage and list the ingredients in the frozen concentrate? There might have been preservatives that are hampering things.

What temperature was the wort when you pitched the yeast? Was it dry yeast? If so, did you rehydrate it first? Did you make a 5 gal batch, or a small batch with a lot of air space in the bucket? What temperature is the room that the buck is in?

No bubbles in the airlock doesn't necessarily mean no fermentation, but I'd be a little paranoid at 24 hours, too.

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Lets see if I can recall:

the temperature of the wort (~1 part) was 90F and I added that to a bucket of maybe 45F apple juice (~2 parts) and then pitched the yeast. I did rehydrate the yeast first with cider + brown sugar. I made a 2 1/2 gal. batch so there is considerable air space in the bucket. The temperature of the room that the bucket is in is between 60-70 degrees. I checked it last evening and it was 66. I also checked the frozen AJ before buying and it was simply apple juice and ascorbic acid (vit. c).

Thanks for the reply Patrick.

jamessh said:

...I did rehydrate the yeast first with cider + brown sugar. I made a 2 1/2 gal. batch so there is considerable air space in the bucket....

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That's a lot of airspace for the yeast to consume, so it might just be that. When you rehydrated the yeast, were you satisfied with the appearance of it before you pitched it - as in, did it froth up? Everything else sounds good.

PortlandPatrick said:

That's a lot of airspace for the yeast to consume, so it might just be that. When you rehydrated the yeast, were you satisfied with the appearance of it before you pitched it - as in, did it froth up? Everything else sounds good.

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Yes I was very pleased with the appearance. It was frothy and I swirled it around briefly before pitching it. I did only use 1/2 of a package. Maybe this is why it is hesitating to begin?

jamessh said:

Yes I was very pleased with the appearance. It was frothy and I swirled it around briefly before pitching it. I did only use 1/2 of a package. Maybe this is why it is hesitating to begin?

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I'd think so, yeah. It never ever hurts to use more yeast... poke around Google for 'yeast propagation' and 'yeast population dynamics' to see why using more yeast is better than using less.

I have a batch of this fermenting right now and just got a call that the 5 gallons of cider I ordered a while back through the LHBS just came in.

I'm thinking about brewing up a 5 gallon batch of something fairly light and splitting both batches to make a Graff and a "Ffarg". So one batch will be 4 gallons cider and 1 gal wort and the other one will be the opposite.

Any suggestions on what style to do? Maybe a Belgian Wit?

i wanna make this soon, but i have no idea when i would be able to bottle it. think this would be OK for say, a month in the primary/a few months in a carboy?

Did my first batch of Graff on Saturday. It's a bit slugish out of the gate on fermentation (probably due to the potassium sorbate in the cider) but I think it will pick up ok. I'm excited to see how this one turns out.

dirtyfrank557 said:

i wanna make this soon, but i have no idea when i would be able to bottle it. think this would be OK for say, a month in the primary/a few months in a carboy?

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It'll be fine.

cyberlord said:

Just set a 5 Gal batch. Sounded too good not to pass up.

Nottingham
.25 lbs of Crystal 60L
.25 lbs of Crystal 120L
1 oz of torrified wheat
4 Gallons of apple juice (Kroger Brand)
1 lb. amber and 1 lb. light DME
1 oz 3% AA Hops

Tim

Click to expand...

OK, bottled this stuff over a week ago to carbonate in the bottle.

Chilled one this weekend and drank it. I'm not that big on beer, but this is terrific and only 3 weeks since I started it. It won't last till the summer so I'll have to brew another batch when this is about drunk up.

I let some co-workers sample some today and they liked it too.

I highly recommend trying this recipe, it's awesome.

I brewed this up about 3 weeks ago, following the recipe for the most part (didn't use the torrified wheat). So now at almost 3 weeks in my graff is still bubbling away in my primary. Gravity is now at 1002. I'd say I'm getting bubbles every 5 seconds still. Taste is a bit vinegary, dry and just not very good. Any chance I have a wild yeast fermentation going on? I used unpasteurized cider from a local orchard. I'm thinking I should have used campden tablets? Would they have any benefit if I used them now?

I figure I need to let this sit a bit and hope the vinegar taste will subside. I'd like to rack it to a 5g secondary and just leave it be for a few weeks. RDWHAHB. This would also free up my primary so I could get back to brewing IPAs like I'm itching to do. Then if the vinegar taste does subside, but it is still too dry, back sweeten it... I know there's a risk of oxidizing the graff by racking though... (I know, I could buy another primary, but would prefer not to do that)

Thanks for any suggestions on how to proceed!
mcslain

Thanks for any suggestions on how to proceed!
mcslain[/QUOTE]

What type of yeast did you use (and what temp was primary)...the presence of normal amounts of commercial brewing yeast would wipe out any wild yeast going on.

The 1.002 does seem a bit dry for this, but that will vary with the yeast used.

I would secondary, you can campden when you rack if you are worried about oxygen, but i have never had this problem as there is still some dissolved C02 that will come out of suspension during racking. I would let it age a bit, retest for vinegar taste after 2 weeks and see. You also might need to back sweeten.

Most people seem to enjoy Graff at about 1.010 -1.015. (this is where mine comes out with nottingham yeast)

Hope this helps!