i dont like apfelwein or graff but i have 5 gal on jiuce. what should i make?

so i made some apfelwein a while ago.i followed ed worts directions exactly i've been tasting it every so often but i just cant get a taste for it. it doesnt taste bad, i just dont like wine and it tastes too much like wine for me.


i also tried making graff with a pear blend i got using the wyeast cider yeast

not a fan at all. it just tastes like crap.

i just got a call from my lhbs that my "holiday blend" apple juice is in.

what i have in my inventory is a couple lbs of dme, varoious hopps and a bunch of dextrose.

i also have some Nottingham yeast.

i keep reading that the nottingham will not ferment as dry as the montrachet does so i think i am going to use that yeast.

what else should i use. should i go just dextrose, or should i try the graff process again using some DME and a small amt of hopps?

i am open to suggestions. i dont want a wine taste. i am looking for something sweeter with a nice apple flavor. i am thinking about putting in a lot of dme or dextrose and just stopping fermentation early either by cold crashing or adding some chemical(not sure which one or how to use it. of do i do it normally and let it ferment out, then kill the yeast with something and then add sugar later?

Cider!!!

Juice + nottingham. The wine taste was what I disliked about apfelwine too, but notty won't have that.

I like backsweetened cider, which is easy if you keg. Just add apple juice concentrate to the keg. If you bottle, backsweetening won't work unless you kill the yeast, but then you have still cider.

I find that more flavour-neutral juices will give an almost winelike taste for sure, but to get the apple flavour, you need strongly apple-flavoured must. There is no way around that. As a general rule, apple varieties that are significantly tart (granny smith, braeburn) will have more of that stereotypical apple flavour, where sweet varieties like gala, fuji and generally much of what is grown commercially for the market these days will give a good abv, but leave a very thin flavour. I have reason to believe that because worldwide these kinds of apples are the most planted, most juice a person is going to buy is going to be made with these apples, as fruit packers typically sell their lowest grade to juice producers. I know that in Australia and Canada, packing houses are full of these super sweet, but not-so-desirable for cider apples. If you want an apple flavour, perhaps throw a good amount of braeburn juice in, which can leave a bit of acidity, but which also would have that concentrated apple flavour. If you have a juicer, you can maybe try to find some of these apples, make some juice and add it to the other juice you have.

Try supplementing your juice with frozen juice concentrate, perhaps Granny Smith concentrate if you can find that at the store (gives sweetness and tartness, plus ABV). Use several (4-8) cans per 5 gallon batch, in place of dextrose. DME will give you some body, so boil some in a small amount of water and put that in there as well.

ok, i do keg, so i'll boil a small amt of DME (maybe 1#) and then let the notty go to town. after that i'll taste it and i'll backsweeten it from there with concentrate.

thanks for the tips everyone.

Wyeast cider 4766 is horrible yeast. It also ruined a batch of my graff. If you like a sweeter cider look for cville kevins sticky about yeast and juice experiments. I have had good luck racking cider at about 1.025, cold crashing and racking again and having a sweeter cider.

The only downfall is you cant bottle condition as you have knocked the yeast out.

Since you keg this should be ok. This will give you a more natural tasting product and wont have to be aged as long to get rid of the hot taste.

Hope this helps!:rockin:

+1 on Notty and Braeburns

do you know the mix in the "holiday blend" apple juice?
I've heard there was a good Northern Spy crop in the NE - that is a good cider apple

Fuji and Gala can be used to make good cider, as long as you have something with some more bite to blend them with. Last year I made 25 gallons from a mix of half Fuji and half York. Those worked out great. The first batch of this season had about 1/4 Gala in a blend with Cortland, MacIntosh and Johnathon.

I agree you dont want to use either one of these apples by themselves.

For the last pressing of the season, I am hoping to get Fuji, Stayman and York. Maybe some Pink Lady, Granny Smith or Johnathon if available.

If you have a decent sized apple orchard within travel distance, IMHO it is well worth the time to find an orchard that has its own press and line up a source of good fresh juice. This website has very complete orchard listings by State:
http://www.allaboutapples.com/orchard/index.htm

k-meta and sorbate work, but I dont like the taste that they leave on the cider. Most of my friends can notice the difference, especially with the sorbate.

Last Fall, I made 16 one gallon test batches with different amounts of k-meta and sorbate vs cold crashing. Using the chemicals is reliable for stopping the fermentation and also the cider clears more quickly than with cold crashing. The taste is noticeable though. After 6 months, the k-meta is not as noticeable, but the sorbate taste is still strong. I still have a liter of each left and will probably check these out with some friends in a month or two, so they would be over a year old. I'm expecting the k-meta to be hardly noticiable by then and hopefully the sorbate taste will be wearing off as well. Time will tell.

Cold crashing takes a little extra time, but IMHO its worth it not to add any chemicals

Sometimes you can stop a Nottingham fermentation just be racking it a few times. Same goes for S04 and 3068.

Nottingham is great for cold crashing, it naturally flocculates at low temps, so it always stops the first time and is hard to mess the syphoning up.

Yeah, cold crashing is definitely underrated, and if you're patient and live in the right climate, it's the best option.

Almost any yeast will cold crash if you give it long enough. I even killed EC-1118 in a cherry wine dead by keeping my carboy outside for about six? weeks, then storing the carboy at a very low temperature (a small cellar full of buckets of ice) for a few more weeks. It's still there, but I brought it upstairs for quite a while to see if it would come back, and I'll be damned if it isn't stable in six months from now, as that cellar is not getting any warmer.

And I wish I could get some good cortlands out here, man. Cortlands are a great apple. Here, they stay green and sour. There's no morning dew and it's generally too hot during their season.

i know absolutely nothing about the "holiday blend" of apples. so i dont know what i am getting into. i will ask when i pick up the juice.

as far as the yeast i am going to go with the notty. i have an extra fridge in the basement that i can cold crash in. i'll try to steer clear of the chemicals since i know nothing about them.


one of the good things about kegging is that i can let it ferment, keg it and taste it. if i dont like it i can back sweeten the entire batch a little at a time. i am in no rush for this so maybe i'll try it out, then if its no good i'll add some concentrate. and go from there.

another question about the batches i have kegged right now, i have about 4 gallons left of my apfelwein and my graff. maybe i can try out back sweetening them with concentrate. it couldnt hurt since i am planning on dumping them any way. unless someone local wants them.

if you have kegs it is easy to backsweeten if you need to.

You can try different sweeteners to see what works best. Different sugars have different profiles. The last batch I had that got too dry worked great with a little agave. agave is good if the juice has a decent body and finish but too sour up front. Cane and corn sugar add a little more body, which you have to balance. apple concentrate, original juice, other fruit - anything is possible with the kegs. If you pour 4oz glasses and small amounts of sweetener, you can figure out what works best for your juice and scale it up to the keg.

jonp I feel your pain. I too made Edworts, anda couple other clones that used dark chocolate malt among other things. I wasn't a fan of any...either too "beer" tasting or too "wine" tasting. I then made the southern sweet cider recipe with a stick of cinnamon thrown ini, let it go, then backsweetened, I then tasted and decided I want a little more cinnamon flavor, so I got some cinnamon extract and added it to just give it a hint of cinnamon flavor....then carbed it up....it is a very very nice drinking cider...you can chug it too. It tastes like a cider should taste in my opinion. Give it a try, I think you'll like it too.

Dan

cinnamon extract? that might be what i am looking for to add more spice to my christmas brew. is it at the grocery store, or a specialty store?

no specialty store needed...just go to your favorite grocery store, go to the baking and spices section, and then look where the vanilla, lemon, rootbeer extracts all are..you should find cinnamon as well. Heck, I found this bottle at our Super Wal-Mart.

Dan

Why not just use a cinnamon stick? Your LHBS should carry them and you can just let it rest in your secondary until it flavors the cider to your liking.

Be careful that you don't use cinnamon oil. If you aren't comfortable with the store bought stuff you can always make your own custom spice tincture in vodka.

awesome. i love to simplify.

sometimes everyone on here offers so many ideas but they are so complicated. i try to live by Keep is simple stupid

i am currently making some cinnamon vodka for my christmas brew. i'll save some for my new cider

How about just fermenting the straight juice? A lower ABV will let more of the apple flavor come through.

that gets rid of all the fun

david_42 said:

How about just fermenting the straight juice? A lower ABV will let more of the apple flavor come through.

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I'm all for that. After 12oz of apfelwine I was either done or about to start a real party. With just fermented juice I can drink a pint then have another pint of something else and still be ready for work in the morning.