Natural gas brew stand - 23 tip burner to 10 tip conversion build.

thanks much for this thread all! this is great. looking to drop a line off our gas main running through the garage for brewing.

Id love to hear your results lazybean. wont be a while until i get going but nows the time to plan. hoping to get by with just a ball valve and some supply line. not sure yet whether to go with the more expensive hurricanes or the cheaper multi-jet though. probably will run two for HLT and BK

I will be doing the same thing done in this thread. Same burners with the same nozzle arrangement. Except I'm using three burners on a single-tier brewstand. I am currently in the process of running black iron piping from the furnace in my crawl space, up through a kitchen cabinet, and out to my back yard porch. I will run a utility hose from there to my brewstand. Hard-plumbing into a garage is much more difficult mainly because there are many more codes to follow because automobiles are involved.

id be interested in what codes you know of earthbound. my main gas line runs through the garage ceiling already, i cant imagine what the difference would be in me routing a line further down the ceiling?

thanks

I suppose if it's high enough, it's ok. But if it's low enough to get hit by a car, then something must be built to protect it. Like a little concrete wall or one of those poles they have in parking lots. I'm not certified at all to do anything, but I do think that you can proceed as planned with no probs.

I made a new burner stand that was modeled off of this thread but since I have a good friend that manages a plumbing supply business, I came up with a half insane pipe based stand for my natural gas burner. The burner itself was a piece of cake to deal with... a utility hose, the right fittings and about 1 hour later I've got 3 psi of natural gas on my front porch where I've always wanted to do my brewing. This burner as it is set up has more than enough variability which I know has been a concern for some. I quadruple seasoned an aluminum pot to be my new HLT and I could bring it to near scortching in 5 mins or 30 mins or anywhere in between. I should also say that IMO stainless steel zip ties make mounting the burner and flashing to the stand a breeze.

Love the pilot light. Great idea. Simple, yet effective.

Yeah, simple and effective, yet a dirty burn, PIA to adjust and very easily blown out. I used that arrangement initially, but changed over to one of these soon after:

http://www.drillspot.com/products/47183/Honeywell_Q314A6102_Pilot_Burner

I've never regretted this upgrade.

Nice set up. I would be interested to see how clean of a flame you get once you put a pot on top. I had to get as much air as possible into my burners to get them to finally burn clean.

It looks like you have enough clearance in the bottom that it'll get plenty of air but if you end up getting a lot of yellow flame, I would just open up the bottom a bit more (or prop it up on a few bricks to let more air in as a test.

Catt22 said:

Yeah, simple and effective, yet a dirty burn, PIA to adjust and very easily blown out. I used that arrangement initially, but changed over to one of these soon after:

http://www.drillspot.com/products/47183/Honeywell_Q314A6102_Pilot_Burner

I've never regretted this upgrade.

Click to expand...

+1 on all that.
A blue flame is required, I just learned last night.
Either the Honeywell pilot burner or some kind of propane gas orifice is required, but it's all good and a lot of fun to play around with for sure.
The pilot burner is on eBay for cheap right now, BTW.

Has anyone else used just a propane gas orifice for their pilot?

I just answered my own question.

I used 3/8" copper tubing to the pilot because the propane gas orifice I have is from Bayou Classic and it's a (3/8" male flare x 1/8" male thread propane orifice) connection.

It's possible, but getting the flame to be blue instead of yellow takes a good amount of pressure - enough to be WAY too big of a flame to be a pilot.

Instead of 3/8" copper tubing, I was thinking of using 1/4" copper tubing to a (1/4" compression x 3/8" female flare) to the aforementioned orifice.

BUT I'm gonna say **** it, and just buy the Honeywell pilot burners because I know that later on I will upgrade the brewstand to have a pilot safety valve.

The Honeywell pilot burner introduces air for a strong, clean blue flame. I also like that it doesn't seem to be particularly fussy about the gas line pressure.

Catt22 said:

The Honeywell pilot burner introduces air for a strong, clean blue flame. I also like that it doesn't seem to be particularly fussy about the gas line pressure.

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The orifice in the Pilot Burner being the right size helps quite a bit also.

Sawdustguy said:

The orifice in the Pilot Burner being the right size helps quite a bit also.

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It comes with an extra orifice for use with propane. It's rigged for NG out of the box, but it's very easy to switch them out.

What model pilot burners do you guys have?

How big is the flame that you guys produce with your pilot burners?

Does it blow out easy?

Any tips you have will surely help.

EarthBound said:

What model pilot burners do you guys have?

How big is the flame that you guys produce with your pilot burners?

Does it blow out easy?

Any tips you have will surely help.

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I use this one: http://www.drillspot.com/products/47183/Honeywell_Q314A6102_Pilot_Burner

I would estimate that the flame is about 1" or so, maybe a little more. The flame is relatively strong, but I have not used it outdoors under windy conditions, so I'm not really sure how resistant to blowing out it is. I would think that it would handle about as much wind as the burner itself. The plain raw 1/4" tubing I used initially for a DIY burner produced something similar to a candle flame and was easily blown out. It worked, but not very well at all.

I use the same pilot burner (if not one that looks exactly like it) and my stand is basically at the opening to my garage. I've had some deent breezes come through and I've never had my pilot blow out.

I also have mine plumbed in through a set of honeywell valves and a thermocoupler so if they ever did blow out, the gas feed from the valve would shut off automatically anyway.

Thanks for the quick replies, guys. I'm gald to hear it's a small flame and that it doesn't blow out easily. I bought two of the Honeywell Q314A 3547 pilot burners for $30 total shipped. Soon as those come in, I'll have the gas phase of my brewstand complete. Shipping time is killing me lately...

I just got my 23 tip flame throwing beast hooked up last night for a test run just to see what I was dealing with and to be honest it looks like I can run this at about 1/2 or 3/4 and achieve a great flame, even at WOT its NOT that bad with orange tips just get orange in the middle top of the flame.

1/2" pipe ran from my garage to the backyard maybe a 35' run and then a 25' 1/2 hose off my quick disconnect to the burner.




I still need to get this mounted UNDER my stand instead of sitting on top, but it was just for testing purposes.


-=Jason=-

Flomaster said:

I just got my 23 tip flame throwing beast hooked up last night for a test run just to see what I was dealing with and to be honest it looks like I can run this at about 1/2 or 3/4 and achieve a great flame, even at WOT its NOT that bad with orange tips just get orange in the middle top of the flame.

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I found the same thing....until I put my keggle over it. Then it was soot city. Had to plug a bunch. Still dont have a lot of adjustment.

BrewNinja1 said:

I found the same thing....until I put my keggle over it. Then it was soot city. Had to plug a bunch. Still dont have a lot of adjustment.

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we had some ss straps at work I'll be using those to secure my burger to my stand so tonight I'll see how long it takes to bring 5 gals of water to a boil and how much soot I get on the bottom of my pot.

if I need to remove some tips and plug them up so be it but I'm hoping I don't have to do that.


-=Jason=-

I was having soot problems as well but then I increased the flow of fresh air coming up form the bottom of the burners and the burn got SIGNIFICANTLY cleaner. I also toned the flame down until it was just touching the bottom of the pot and I am getting a ton less soot.

Don't know what your brew rigs look like but I figured if the flow of air feeding the burners was constricted, that might be a fix for you.

I'll be messing around with mine tomorrow as I have to work my second job tonight oh how I love 14 hour Fridays.

-=Jason=-

here are some pics of how I have it setup, hardly any black soot to be had on my pot after an hour boil

-=Jason=-

Cool... yeah, that's obviously a ton of air flow with the entire bottom opened like that.

How quickly did you come up to a boil? I bet that sucker tosses some heavy duty heat.

I gotta get my rig opened up even more under my burners. I get very little soot now and my 32-tips puts out a ton of heat but I think the constriction I have on air flow is choking down my BTUs a little. It's fine the way it is (I boil off just a hair over two gallons per hour) but I feel like i'm wasting some BTUs.

well I was home alone with 1 year old son that day (SWMBO was doing a photo shoot) I boiled that pot and well he didn't want to take a nap and I wasn't about to let him run around the backyard with that water boiling so we were watching a movie and I totally spaced checking on it. I went out at 43 minutes into it and it was a full on raging boil water temp on my clip on thermometer read 202 so I think its not accurate as boiling water is 212 yet this thing was only reading 202. I'll have to buy a better one once I convert a keg into a keggle.

-=Jason=-

well boiling my turkey it seemed I had to turn my ball valve nearly off to keep my temp at 350°. with the pot on and wide open valve it seemed to be starving for air so to speak, maybe my burner is to close to my pot. I got very little black soot on my pot during my 1 hour turkey fry. I do think I'll get some machine threaded bolts and cap off a couple of those jets though.



-=Jason=-

There is so much info here it is ridiculous!

So I am planning to do some brewing and would like to do it with NG. It looks like the best bet is to get the hurricane burner with the NG valve for the hottest, cleanest burn, but I have some questions. First off, I have 6" w.c. of pressure coming from the gas company. The valve says it need 11? Will this valve work for me? I am not sure if I have comparable pressure to you guys.

http://www.williamsbrewing.com/HURRICANE_CONVERSION_VALVE_P2214.cfm

Also, is this the Hurricane burner that is referred to? It is only rated to 60K btu, and I would like something a little hotter:

http://www.cooking.com/products/shprodde.asp?SKU=377579&CCAID=FROOGLE377579

Thanks!

save a lot of money here
http://www.agrisupply.com/product.asp?pn=64494&sid=&eid=

poster72 said:

save a lot of money here
http://www.agrisupply.com/product.asp?pn=64494&sid=&eid=

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will that burner work just fine installed on a low pressure ng line?

-=jason=-

I was wondering the same thing. Hopefully somebody comes in soon. Maybe that valve will still work with that burner that poster72 suggested?

i have the burners from agrisupply, same thing as the banjo burners. Part is BG14 from agrisupply.

the adapters from williams brewing for NG do fit these burners. I have two burners and the adapters, but unfortunately have not hooked up yet.

I hear they work very well on low pressure NG with the adapter

Zaphod42 said:

I made a new burner stand that was modeled off of this thread but since I have a good friend that manages a plumbing supply business, I came up with a half insane pipe based stand for my natural gas burner. The burner itself was a piece of cake to deal with... a utility hose, the right fittings and about 1 hour later I've got 3 psi of natural gas on my front porch where I've always wanted to do my brewing. This burner as it is set up has more than enough variability which I know has been a concern for some. I quadruple seasoned an aluminum pot to be my new HLT and I could bring it to near scortching in 5 mins or 30 mins or anywhere in between. I should also say that IMO stainless steel zip ties make mounting the burner and flashing to the stand a breeze.

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Why did you use pipe dope on the pot stands pipe threads and if the pipes get hot, pressure may build up inside and maybe cause an explosive failure.

They are the same burners at Agri Supply. I got mine at Williams because I wanted the stand, the Propane regulator, and the NG conversion valve. If you are putting them in a brewstand, I can understand getting the "naked" burners but doesn't everyone else need a stand? I suppose some people make them.

Flomaster said:

will that burner work just fine installed on a low pressure ng line?

-=jason=-

Click to expand...

When I was looking to but 3 burners for my NG rig, I priced out the agri supply burner and the same burner at Northern brewer, the ones at northern brewer come with the oriface that are designed for propane; but you can drill out the oriface to use it with NG, (the agri supply burners do not come with an oriface) so when you factor in having to buy the orifaces, and the shipping; the norther brewer deal is cheaper ($7.99 flat rate shipping for all 3 burners)

the agrisupply burners DO come with an orifice, or at least mine did. Cant say, but im sure its propane. i bought the williams NG conversions for mine and still have the old orifices and could take a peak if its bigger or smaller (assuming thats the difference in them)

poster72 said:

the agrisupply burners DO come with an orifice, or at least mine did. Cant say, but im sure its propane. i bought the williams NG conversions for mine and still have the old orifices and could take a peak if its bigger or smaller (assuming thats the difference in them)

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there is a post around here somewhere that someone called agri supply and they said that they didn't come with the orifices......but the guy at agri might have not known what he was talking about

the propane orifices are really small, I just progressively drilled mine a little at a time and reinstalled each time till the flame looked good on the NG

The pipe work for my stand is all one continuous chamber inside all of the pipe. All you need to do is make sure there is at least one hole in just one section of pipe to let air expand and contract out of and its all good. What you saw there was high temperature epoxy anyway. That is just there to make me feel better. It probably does not function in any important way.

OK check this idea out, I can not experiment with this as I do not have a jet burner but what if you put a T-fitting in the pipe going to the burner and plum in air from a air compressure controlled with a air pressure regulator as Im thinking that the in surtin setups not enough air is getting to the lower part of the burner tip.

I did a lot of research and found myself looking at this forum quite a bit.

My frame is 1 1/2 x 1 1/2 square steel. I used a gas tube instead of running a gas line. The three jet burners, natural gas, work great. In fact once the wort is at a boil I turn it very low to maintain the boil. The electrical is run from the flush mounted receptical, thru a keyed switch, to the switches for each pump. The keyed switch is so if I leave it plugged in the kids or animals wont accidently hit a switch and run a pump when it's dry.

Working at an aerospace company, for an owner that loves beer, allowed me to design and build stainless lines for the entire system. With a boatload of small tri-clover fittings, gave to be by Mark at Oceanside Ale Works, I ended up with a system that should last a lifetime.

I also built a heat exchanger by running a 5/8" line thru a 1 1/4" line and then making a "coil". I circulate water from the HLT in the big line, the wort circs in the small line, so I don't need a coil inside the HLT to control the mash temp. When the boiling is done I run tap water thru the big line, wort thru the small, and it takes it down to about 80.

There are sampling valves that can be opened to allow the pump to prime itself and take small samples from while brewing.

Wheels on one side makes moving it "easier" (it's heavy) like a wheel barrel.

I usuall do 20 gal batches but can go down to 10. Was thinking about getting some 55 gallon stainless drums for bigger batches.....

Thanks to everyone that has posted on here. It's been a tremendous help and hopefully these pics might inspire some new designs and ideas as well.

keithster said:

I did a lot of research and found myself looking at this forum quite a bit.

My frame is 1 1/2 x 1 1/2 square steel. I used a gas tube instead of running a gas line. The three jet burners, natural gas, work great. In fact once the wort is at a boil I turn it very low to maintain the boil. The electrical is run from the flush mounted receptical, thru a keyed switch, to the switches for each pump. The keyed switch is so if I leave it plugged in the kids or animals wont accidently hit a switch and run a pump when it's dry.

Working at an aerospace company, for an owner that loves beer, allowed me to design and build stainless lines for the entire system. With a boatload of small tri-clover fittings, gave to be by Mark at Oceanside Ale Works, I ended up with a system that should last a lifetime.

I also built a heat exchanger by running a 5/8" line thru a 1 1/4" line and then making a "coil". I circulate water from the HLT in the big line, the wort circs in the small line, so I don't need a coil inside the HLT to control the mash temp. When the boiling is done I run tap water thru the big line, wort thru the small, and it takes it down to about 80.

There are sampling valves that can be opened to allow the pump to prime itself and take small samples from while brewing.

Wheels on one side makes moving it "easier" (it's heavy) like a wheel barrel.

I usuall do 20 gal batches but can go down to 10. Was thinking about getting some 55 gallon stainless drums for bigger batches.....

Thanks to everyone that has posted on here. It's been a tremendous help and hopefully these pics might inspire some new designs and ideas as well.

Click to expand...

Nice system, man!

It's a thing of beauty.

I'm diggin the SS lines - must be nice to work for your company.

Is that chiller a CFC? I've never seen anything like it. My CFC gets it to about 80, as well. It's nice not having to circulate the wort and just having it go from boiling temps to pitching temps.

You have a plug in the square tubing? There's something else I haven't seen before...